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Roy Hibbert, De'ron Davis and the problem for old school bigs...


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2 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

The problem these older "greats" would have in today's game is the physicality that is no longer allowed. In today's game they would not be allowed to get away with what they used too.  Which would be the bigger issue on both Offense and Defense.

I absolutely hear that point and get it, but I don't think it really applies to the guy we're discussing. That would apply to guys like Mahorn, Laimbeer, Oakley, etc. A guy like McHale would thrive with the open space on the court. So would guys like Robinson, Barkley, Hakeem, etc. 

Not to keep going back to McHale, but put him on the block where the floor is spread with shooters and you're not doubling him with two bigs and he would kill. In the video that was shared the guy was hitting fadeaway jumpers from the elbow with two physical bigs on him, imagine what he could do in space?

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14 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I'm just dumbfounded on your stance here. You don't see what's so good? Literally some of the greatest players of all-time have said that McHale has the best post moves ever. But, Myles Turner would be fine against him?!?! Ok...

I just don't see or believe someone who is bigger, faster, stronger, longer, and quicker would get abused by McHale. Let alone... against more finesse players, Turner has played good defense. Absolutely against Cousins, Drummonds, and Adams of the world he struggles... McHale isn't that though. 

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3 minutes ago, btownqb said:

I just don't see or believe someone who is bigger, faster, stronger, longer, and quicker would get abused by McHale. Let alone... against more finesse players, Turner has played good defense. Absolutely against Cousins, Drummonds, and Adams of the world he struggles... McHale isn't that though. 

McHale is far superior than any of those players you mentioned.  the only one of them that has any kind of an offensive game is Cousins and the rest only scores off of put backs and dunks.  McHale would use his up and under move and get those players in the air and go right around them or draw a foul.

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21 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

The problem these older "greats" would have in today's game is the physicality that is no longer allowed. In today's game they would not be allowed to get away with what they used too.  Which would be the bigger issue on both Offense and Defense.

Do do you mean he couldn’t do the clothesline today?

tumblr_ll2eb8FWTu1qa74k5.jpg

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1 minute ago, IU Scott said:

McHale is far superior than any of those players you mentioned.  the only one of them that has any kind of an offensive game is Cousins and the rest only scores off of put backs and dunks.  McHale would use his up and under move and get those players in the air and go right around them or draw a foul.

So you're assuming he would get Turner in the air.... you're assuming Turner wouldn't over match him with length, 35lbs, and quickness? OK. 

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Just now, btownqb said:

I just don't see or believe someone who is bigger, faster, stronger, longer, and quicker would get abused by McHale. Let alone... against more finesse players, Turner has played good defense. Absolutely against Cousins, Drummonds, and Adams of the world he struggles... McHale isn't that though. 

Because he abused far greater players than Myles Turner during his HOF career.

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2 minutes ago, btownqb said:

So you're assuming he would get Turner in the air.... you're assuming Turner wouldn't over match him with length, 35lbs, and quickness? OK. 

He wasn't overmatched by much tougher bigs in the 80's, so why would Myles Turner, who again is an ok player and not considered some great defender, overmatch him? 

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1 minute ago, btownqb said:

So you're assuming he would get Turner in the air.... you're assuming Turner wouldn't over match him with length, 35lbs, and quickness? OK. 

Just stop because putting Turner in the same breath is just ridiculous and you can't really believe  what you are saying.  I am a Pacer fan but Turner is a huge disappointment and has not improved much in the last couple of years.  He is soft and can't handle any physical play because he gets moved out of his position on the block all the time.  Also I can't count the number of times there has been a switch and a guard was on Turner and he couldn't get position. on the block against a little man.

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1 minute ago, BGleas said:

He wasn't overmatched by much tougher bigs in the 80's, so why would Myles Turner, who again is an ok player and not considered some great defender, overmatch him? 

I don't think he would overmatch him. I think he'd defend him fine though. He would benefit from the space.. players are more athletic now and stronger. 

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1 minute ago, BGleas said:

He wasn't overmatched by much tougher bigs in the 80's, so why would Myles Turner, who again is an ok player and not considered some great defender, overmatch him? 

He has to be just trolling and can't really believe what he is spewing on this thread.

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Just now, btownqb said:

I don't think he would overmatch him. I think he'd defend him fine though. He would benefit from the space.. players are more athletic now and stronger. 

Just because they are bigger and more athletic does not mean they are better BASKETBALL players.  McHale used his mind and was a great offensive player who used everything he had to score.

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3 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Just stop because putting Turner in the same breath is just ridiculous and you can't really believe  what you are saying.  I am a Pacer fan but Turner is a huge disappointment and has not improved much in the last couple of years.  He is soft and can't handle any physical play because he gets moved out of his position on the block all the time.  Also I can't count the number of times there has been a switch and a guard was on Turner and he couldn't get position. on the block against a little man.

I honestly do not care whether Turner scores another point in a post up situation or not lol 

Pick and pop and using a shot fake off of that are where his bread is buttered. He's bigger, faster, and stronger and more athletic than McHale and I really would not be worried about that matchup. And spotting up off dribble drive. 

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Just now, btownqb said:

How many had the athletic capabilities of Turner? or the size? 

I said he'd score some on him? Abusing him? No

I'm just missing where Myles Turner became some elite level, HOF defender? Because Kevin McHale is an elite level, HOF offensive player. Again, McHale has abused far greater big men than Myles Turner. 

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Just now, BGleas said:

I'm just missing where Myles Turner became some elite level, HOF defender? Because Kevin McHale is an elite level, HOF offensive player. Again, McHale has abused far greater big men than Myles Turner. 

Because I honestly see nothing in his McHale's game that could translate vs. players now. I don't believe the 80s was the golden age as a lot of people do. Same thing with the NFL compartively to their era.. McHale is absolutely a better player, a much better player. But that's comparative to their era. Not when you compare era to era. Turner plays in the 80s.. he is a game changer, as are a lot of other players with his size and athleticism and skill set. 

Post defense is a lot easier when you're bigger, longer, and stronger than the other person. McHale would get some points.. he wouldn't dominate Turner. Wouldn't abuse him. 

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Just now, btownqb said:

Because I honestly see nothing in his McHale's game that could translate vs. players now. I don't believe the 80s was the golden age as a lot of people do. Same thing with the NFL compartively to their era.. McHale is absolutely a better player, a much better player. But that's comparative to their era. Not when you compare era to era. Turner plays in the 80s.. he is a game changer, as are a lot of other players with his size and athleticism and skill set. 

Post defense is a lot easier when you're bigger, longer, and stronger than the other person. McHale would get some points.. he wouldn't dominate Turner. Wouldn't abuse him. 

I am sorry but you have no clue about the 80's and whether that was the Golden era but most people disagree with you.

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The first guy I thought of as a plodding big was Mark Eaton of the Jazz.

 

Regarding McHale, I think he would thrive in todays game. What hasn't been mentioned is that he was a very good shooter as well. He could take that baseline jumper just as easily as go around you to the rim.   

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3 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Career stats

McHale 17.9 pts, 7.3 rebs., 1.7 blocks and 1.7 assists.

Turner 12.7pts, 6.5rebs., 1.8 Blocks and 1.1 assist

 

In the playoffs McHale average 19.1 and Turner 11.7.

smh. comparing Turner stats as a 19, 20, and 21 year old vs. McHale's entire career. gotcha 

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2 minutes ago, Reacher said:

The first guy I thought of as a plodding big was Mark Eaton of the Jazz.

 

Regarding McHale, I think he would thrive in todays game. What hasn't been mentioned is that he was a very good shooter as well. He could take that baseline jumper just as easily as go around you to the rim.   

Agree players like Eaton couldn't play in today's game but there were actually great athletes that actually played in the 80's.  they myth that the 80's did not have good athletes is plain wrong but some won't do the research and learn the history of the game.

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2 minutes ago, btownqb said:

smh. comparing Turner stats as a 19, 20, and 21 year old vs. McHale's entire career. gotcha 

If you do some research you would have known that McHale first few years was as a 6th man but he was still able to put up good numbers.

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6 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Agree players like Eaton couldn't play in today's game but there were actually great athletes that actually played in the 80's.  they myth that the 80's did not have good athletes is plain wrong but some won't do the research and learn the history of the game.

Plenty of athletic guys on this list-

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1338152-legends-of-the-nba-25-best-players-of-the-80s#slide18

 

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10 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Agree players like Eaton couldn't play in today's game but there were actually great athletes that actually played in the 80's.  they myth that the 80's did not have good athletes is plain wrong but some won't do the research and learn the history of the game.

Lol geeze

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