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Anthony Leal is a Hoosier !


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1 hour ago, RoadToZion said:

Eric Gordon is very loyal to our program. He is very vocal on Twitter about our Hoosiers. He reps IU almost more than any of our former players. It’s not his fault he was good enough to be a one and done...

Dudes Twitter pic is literally of him in his IU jersey, still. Thomas Bryant has IU stuff all over his twitter as well. 

This is honestly a REALLY silly argument. I'll bet plenty of people who post here weren't IU grads, and that has absolutely NOTHING to do with their fandom. It's a good thing: Gordon, Zeller, VO, TB, OG, and Romeo were able to leave early. Really good. 

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2 hours ago, Seeking6 said:

Agree all day. With all due respect to others opinion....Gordon (as you've said) is extremely loyal and vocal about IU. The problem wasn't Gordon it was the foundation and types of kids around him. Recruiting the 4 year guys just won't work. We can use Weber or even Painter as Exhibit A and B for why that model won't work. Weber's best team ever was because of Self's recruits. Regarding Painter his model after 7 years as Head Coach produced 2 missed tourneys and 2 first round exits in years 8-11. Most places that gets you fired. 

I'm not advocating all one and done at all. We've built our base but no reason at all we shouldn't be able to land at least 1 elite 5 star players 3 of every 4 recruiting cycles. 

Villanova and UVA did not have any one and done players and built around 4 year players

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3 hours ago, milehiiu said:

I have to ask.  When was the last IU BB OAD, that took our great university all the way to a  National Championship ?  I'm talking about Indiana University basketball.  Not the NBA.

I think the point being made is if you add a OAD Star kid to any of our really really good teams say the Vic and Yogi and Zeller team or heck even the S16 team that got beat by UNC a few years back then we perhaps have enough to get over the hump. Even the late 90s Knight teams you add a superstar kid to those teams and maybe instead of early exits in the tourney we make a deep run. It isn’t about building with those kids but having them come along at the right time when the team can most make use of their skills. This isn’t even touching on all the publicity they bring the university and attracting other top talent. UK recruits itself now with how these kids see those that came before. It doesn’t have to be all or nothing...but let’s be real...even our last FF run wouldn’t have been possible without a special OAD caliber talent like Jared Jefferies. Just because you can win a championship without a OAD doesn’t mean you should ignore them. If they make your team better and don’t detract from it with all that goes with being one then it makes sense to get better. Say in 06 we land Mike Conley and Greg Oden...that would have changed our team that year. To me if they are the right type to fit into what you are doing them a few along the way are needed.

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1 hour ago, btownqb said:

Sort of irrelevant because we haven't been relevant since the early 90s 🤷‍♂️

Maybe we should quit going after OAD's.  And concentrate on players that want to win.  Just like Anthony Leal was recently quoted as saying.

Love ya btown.  Cause you challenge me to think, all the time. 

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31 minutes ago, dgambill said:

I think the point being made is if you add a OAD Star kid to any of our really really good teams say the Vic and Cody and Zeller team or heck even the S16 team that got beat by UNC a few years back then we perhaps have enough to get over the hump. Even the late 90s Knight teams you add a superstar kid to those teams and maybe instead of early exits in the tourney we make a deep run. It isn’t about building with those kids but having them come along at the right time when the team can most make use of their skills. This isn’t even touching on all the publicity they bring the university and attracting other top talent. UK recruits itself now with how these kids see those that came before. It doesn’t have to be all or nothing...but let’s be real...even our last FF run wouldn’t have been possible without a special OAD caliber talent like Jared Jefferies. Just because you can win a championship without a OAD doesn’t mean you should ignore them. If they make your team better and don’t detract from it with all that goes with being one then it makes sense to get better. Say in 06 we land Mike Conley and Greg Oden...that would have changed our team that year. To me if they are the right type to fit into what you are doing them a few along the way are needed.

Good post. 

Still not convinced about going after OAD's.  Plse don't that  against me.  Just think we need to build our program, with players that want IU BB to be the best that it can be.

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21 minutes ago, dgambill said:

I think the point being made is if you add a OAD Star kid to any of our really really good teams say the Vic and Cody and Zeller team or heck even the S16 team that got beat by UNC a few years back then we perhaps have enough to get over the hump. Even the late 90s Knight teams you add a superstar kid to those teams and maybe instead of early exits in the tourney we make a deep run. It isn’t about building with those kids but having them come along at the right time when the team can most make use of their skills. This isn’t even touching on all the publicity they bring the university and attracting other top talent. UK recruits itself now with how these kids see those that came before. It doesn’t have to be all or nothing...but let’s be real...even our last FF run wouldn’t have been possible without a special OAD caliber talent like Jared Jefferies. Just because you can win a championship without a OAD doesn’t mean you should ignore them. If they make your team better and don’t detract from it with all that goes with being one then it makes sense to get better. Say in 06 we land Mike Conley and Greg Oden...that would have changed our team that year. To me if they are the right type to fit into what you are doing them a few along the way are needed.

This. Add Indiana OAD's that have the talent AND have a love for the culture and university.  They may play AAU with friends that are the 4 year foundational pieces and want to spend their one year playing with them. I doubt they'll want to win any less. We can skip the UK kind of kids that don't even want to unpack their bags.

We are in a unique situation in Indiana to have it both ways. Unfortunately,  we have had coaches that couldn't or wouldn't capitalize on the advantages Indiana provides. Hopefully Archie can be that coach.

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10 minutes ago, Hoosierinbham said:

This. Add Indiana OAD's that have the talent AND have a love for the culture and university.  They may play AAU with friends that are the 4 year foundational pieces and want to spend their one year playing with them. I doubt they'll want to win any less. We can skip the UK kind of kids that don't even want to unpack their bags.

We are in a unique situation in Indiana to have it both ways. Unfortunately,  we have had coaches that couldn't or wouldn't capitalize on the advantages Indiana provides. Hopefully Archie can be that coach.

Appreciate your post. More than you can think.  However.  I HAVE to ask.  What have any IU OAD's ever done to further our program?  Plse. Plse. Don't think this is an attack on you.  Simply a civil question.

I do agree with you.  Indiana is blessed in terms of producing, perhaps the greatest amount of prep talent in the U.S. Can't forget about the passion Indiana kids have for the game. Or the great Indiana prep HS coaches who worked the game. And as we saw with the video of Anthony Leal, when he was a kid. And responses of our members over the years. As  to what BB means to all of us.

Give me a four year player who contributes to our program, over any OAD, any day of he week.

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1 hour ago, IU Scott said:

Villanova and UVA did not have any one and done players and built around 4 year players

Guy, Jerome, Hunter, Anderson all weren't 4 year players.

Divincenzo, Brunson, Bridges, Spellman, Hart, Lowry weren't either. 

Spellman was a RS FR. So idk how you want to categorize that. Those schools have had plenty of players leave early. 

I don't really care to have any OAD players from out of state..  but Gordon, Romeo, JJ(yes I realize he was two years)... you have to get those types of talents. Have to. Period. 

What happens if you add Oden and Conley to our 06-07 team that went 21-11? 

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8 minutes ago, milehiiu said:

Appreciate your post. More than you can think.  However.  I HAVE to ask.  What have any IU OAD's ever done to further our program?  Plse. Plse. Don't think this is an attack on you.  Simply a civil question.

I do agree with you.  Indiana is blessed in terms of producing, perhaps the greatest amount of prep talent in the U.S. Can't forget about the passion Indiana kids have for the game. Or the great Indiana prep HS coaches who worked the game. And as we saw with the video of Anthony Leal, when he was a kid. And responses of our members over the years. As  to what BB means to all of us.

Give me a four year player who contributes to our program, over any OAD, any day of he week.

Fair question. In my scenario above, I'm discussing some hypothetical recruiting situations for the future. Can't point to what you're asking for in our recent past,  because we've been down or inconsistent at best. Prior to that, the OAD wasn't a thing.  

We're all throwing out what we think would lead our beloved Hoosiers back to the glory land.  Like most things in life, the truth is somewhere in the middle. Thus,  a hybrid model where we recruit SELECT OADs seems the best way to balance culture, class size, and the best talent possible. If the state of Indiana provides, or select assistant coaches have insight that a particular national OAD meets our criteria, I think we need that kind of firepower in the tournament to get the results we all desire. Once again, just my opinion. 

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9 minutes ago, btownqb said:

Guy, Jerome, Hunter, Anderson all weren't 4 year players.

Divincenzo, Brunson, Bridges, Spellman, Hart, Lowry weren't either. 

Spellman was a RS FR. So idk how you want to categorize that. Those schools have had plenty of players leave early. 

I don't really care to have any OAD players from out of state..  but Gordon, Romeo, JJ(yes I realize he was two years)... you have to get those types of talents. Have to. Period. 

What happens if you add Oden and Conley to our 06-07 team that went 21-11? 

Some on here seem to think Nova and Virginia were absolutely void of talent. 

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3 hours ago, milehiiu said:

I have to ask.  When was the last IU BB OAD, that took our great university all the way to a  National Championship ?  I'm talking about Indiana University basketball.  Not the NBA.

When we last won a National Championship OaD wasn't even a thing. No freshman (and only one sophomore) were drafted in the 1987 NBA Draft. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1987_NBA_draft

How many OaD's have we had? Not nearly enough to end our 30+ year title drought apparently. Luckily OaD is going away soon, so it doesn't matter.

Since this is Anthony Leal's thread, I'll pose this question to you. What is Anthony Leal is a OaD and leads us to a championship? Will you no longer be found of him b/c he didn't stay 4 years? Or will you be fond of him for winning a championship for IU? What if he is OaD but doesn't win a title? Not all OaD's are expected to be. 

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33 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

Some on here seem to think Nova and Virginia were absolutely void of talent. 

Who said that but they did not have any ne and down players and were able to win a championship.  Yes they had guys leave and most were after 3 years but most of those players coming in were not top 10-15 players either.

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Plenty of examples winning with and without OAD “type” talent. You look at the consistent teams year in and out that live in the top 10 Duke, UK, Kansas, Michigan St, UNC they either showcase OAD caliber kids or at least mix them in. They may or may not have more than 1 on a team but they don’t go many years without having a talented kid like that come through the school. The thing is they are consistently at the top giving them more chances to win it all. It still takes the right mix of 4 year players to win it all and it takes the right OAD to have that happen but I don’t think you just ignore the top 10 kids. You just need to know your program and the kids you bring in.

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8 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

Can’t believe I haven’t seen one mention of Isiah Thomas amidst all this griping about players who leave early “doing nothing for the program”...

At least he won a championship but still don't look at him in the same light as I do the players from the 76 team who all stayed 4 years.  Also I would pick Alford over IT because he won and stayed 4 years as well.

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15 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

Can’t believe I haven’t seen one mention of Isiah Thomas amidst all this griping about players who leave early “doing nothing for the program”...

Even if a OAD doesn’t win a championship doesn’t mean they bring nothing to the program so I think that is why no one is trying to justify the statement. Kids look to the NBA now...that’s the goal. What these kids do in the pros and money they make will indeed bring attention to the program and more kids interested in following their footsteps. I guarantee there will be some kid or dozen that see Romeo in the NBA and that he went to IU and will also want to go to IU and learn from Archie.

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Maybe we can bring this back around to Anthony. Regardless if we continue to go after OAD or not...this kid and others like him will be the back bone of this program. Not only does he know the history of it to share with his teammates but his heart and love for it will be infectious. He knows the city...the places to eat and enjoy and will be a big influence on bringing kids into the fold. On the court I can see him confidently knocking down big shots and sticking his nose in and causing havoc on defense. Wonderful addition.

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2 hours ago, Hoosierinbham said:

Fair question. In my scenario above, I'm discussing some hypothetical recruiting situations for the future. Can't point to what you're asking for in our recent past,  because we've been down or inconsistent at best. Prior to that, the OAD wasn't a thing.  

We're all throwing out what we think would lead our beloved Hoosiers back to the glory land.  Like most things in life, the truth is somewhere in the middle. Thus,  a hybrid model where we recruit SELECT OADs seems the best way to balance culture, class size, and the best talent possible. If the state of Indiana provides, or select assistant coaches have insight that a particular national OAD meets our criteria, I think we need that kind of firepower in the tournament to get the results we all desire. Once again, just my opinion. 

Appreciate your civil response.  One thing I do. Is never belittle a member for expressing a civil opinion, even if it is counter to mine.  That is what this forum was built upon. So. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I believe that the ill fated hire of Kelvin Sampson did more harm to our BB than we could ever measure.  Wrong hire. For the wrong reason. Actually a good coach. But took the wrong turn at the fork at the road. And chose the absolute wrong players in order to bring our program back to the greatness,we experienced under Coach Knight.  Mike Davis was not the answer, despite having players with the Heart of a Hoosier who took us to a NC game. If only Sampson lived up to his promise to the IU fans that he had learned his lesson, and would not cheat again... and then brought players in that were more interested in drugs rather than going to class... I believe Sampson could have taken us to the promised land again.   AND I think he would have done it with out OAD's.

 

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6 minutes ago, milehiiu said:

Appreciate your civil response.  One thing I do. Is never belittle a member for expressing a civil opinion, even if it is counter to mine.  That is what this forum was built upon. So. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I believe that the ill fated hire of Kelvin Sampson did more harm to our BB than we could ever measure.  Wrong hire. For the wrong reason. Actually a good coach. But took the wrong turn at the fork at the road. And chose the absolute wrong players in order to bring our program back to the greatness,we experienced under Coach Knight.  Mike Davis was not the answer, despite having players with the Heart of a Hoosier who took us to a NC game. If only Sampson lived up to his promise to the IU fans that he had learned his lesson, and would not cheat again... and then brought players in that were more interested in drugs rather than going to class... I believe Sampson could have taken us to the promised land again.   AND I think he would have done it with out OAD's.

 

You've set the tone for civility,  and that's what makes the board great. I think we all agree, getting Anthony to add to Trey is a great thing in getting us back to where we all want to be. We need more just like them.

One genuine question I would have, would you have still wanted DeRon if he had been able to come in early, in shape, and performed to a level that allowed him to be drafted in the 1st round after one year?  You brought us a TON of great insight on him and his recruitment. He's had injury and weight issues that haven't allowed him to realize his potential,  yet.  I wouldn't trade 1 or 4 years with him.  If I recall correctly, he was rated near the top of his class when we started recruiting him.

Same thing with Anthony or Trey. If every possible piece fell into place, and one of them got crazy hot during the tournament (Divencenzo), AND we won it all, I wouldn't fault either for leaving early. A ton of its, but it's summer, and a good discussion with great fans.

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1 hour ago, cybergates said:

When we last won a National Championship OaD wasn't even a thing. No freshman (and only one sophomore) were drafted in the 1987 NBA Draft. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1987_NBA_draft

How many OaD's have we had? Not nearly enough to end our 30+ year title drought apparently. Luckily OaD is going away soon, so it doesn't matter.

Since this is Anthony Leal's thread, I'll pose this question to you. What is Anthony Leal is a OaD and leads us to a championship? Will you no longer be found of him b/c he didn't stay 4 years? Or will you be fond of him for winning a championship for IU? What if he is OaD but doesn't win a title? Not all OaD's are expected to be. 

Answer to your question. Should Anthony give us four years of quality basketball, I will list him as one of the greatest IU BB players.  No different than the twins who were not OAD's. But went on to great success in the NBA.

The Van Arsdale twins through the years

Also, I have answered your question in this thread. But it was long. And I won't hold it against you, that you may have missed it.  IF, and I say IF.  Any IU OAD would lead IU to a NC ...that would lead me to think highly of him.  BUT.  It has not happened as of yet.

Hey.  Appreciate your reply.  And thanks for being a member of Hoosier Sports Nation.  It's not about arguments. But civil discussion which has made, and continues to make this little IU site GREAT !

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3 minutes ago, Hoosierinbham said:

You've set the tone for civility,  and that's what makes the board great. I think we all agree, getting Anthony to add to Trey is a great thing in getting us back to where we all want to be. We need more just like them.

One genuine question I would have, would you have still wanted DeRon if he had been able to come in early, in shape, and performed to a level that allowed him to be drafted in the 1st round after one year?  You brought us a TON of great insight on him and his recruitment. He's had injury and weight issues that haven't allowed him to realize his potential,  yet.  I wouldn't trade 1 or 4 years with him.  If I recall correctly, he was rated near the top of his class when we started recruiting him.

Same thing with Anthony or Trey. If every possible piece fell into place, and one of them got crazy hot during the tournament (Divencenzo), AND we won it all, I wouldn't fault either for leaving early. A ton of its, but it's summer, and a good discussion with great fans.

Thank you for your kind words, in terms of civility.  I commend all of our mods that have continued to carry the torch in terms of board civility as well.

In terms of De'Ron.  That is an interesting question.  Hmm.  Seeing as how I have followed him since 8th grade.  And he told me personally, while still in high school that his ultimate goal was to make it to the NBA.  So, to answer your question. As much as I love De'Ron. Had he left after one year. I would say he used IU. And therefore would category him in the same class of other IU OAD's . Thankfully, that has not happened

As for Anthony or Trey. I don't see either as OAD's.  Not saying they are not great. But not on that level. Yet.  I really hope they give us more than one year. And like Victor, should they give us more than one year, and work and progress like Victor did. I would wish them the best.  Just won't watch while they play in the NBA. 

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