rico Posted April 20, 2019 Report Share Posted April 20, 2019 58 minutes ago, Blazin Hazin said: I just don't get this one. Given the program's current status- what exactly makes us think Leal couldn't help us? I hate to be a Debbie Downer, but we missed the NCAA three years in a row and we're not considered a lock to make it next year. Are we really that arrogant/delusional to snub a guy rated 75-150 in the nation? I'm sure someone will reply..."Archie knows better than you."....this is true, but smart people do stupid things. This "snubbing" IS because of those asinine recruiting rankings. Fans(and that includes us) get enamored with them. Sad but true. My rule of thumb is always take an Indiana kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted April 20, 2019 Report Share Posted April 20, 2019 Honestly, this recruitment is huge in terms of how I feel about Archie. It's not because I have an special attachment to Leal, because I don't. But, if Archie can't see the opportunity before him with this kid, then maybe he doesn't understand Indiana basketball any more than Crean. How often do you have a chance to get a 4 star without even really recruiting him? And, he would be getting a kid that will work his tail off, and likely bide his time waiting for his opportunity as an upperclassman. There is no way Indiana loses here. At worst, you have a 13th guy who is fulfilling his lifetime dream. It truly is a no brainer, and I an dumbfounded that an offer has not been made yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted April 20, 2019 Report Share Posted April 20, 2019 My accessment and yes maybe I’m wrong and would be pleasantly proved wrong is at this time I didn’t see that elite quickness.. he is strong and out muscles most HS kids but I just haven’t seen him blow by off the dribble to create his shot on a consistent enough basis and the defensive liability I feel is from his feet..just doesn’t have fast feet and tight in his hips so I fear his agility won’t allow him to stay in front of most B1G starting guards. Athleticism isnt all about dunking or how strong or fast...there are twitchy very quick guards in our league...and we play a defense that relies on quick close outs and lateral quickness. That is why I think he would need a couple years to adjust to speed of the game at our level. It isn’t his shooting or how strong he is or if he is big enough. Again all said I want to take the kid...perfect 4 year kid that wouldn’t complain about not getting minutes right away and stick it out til his time comes and wouldn’t transfer. Please don’t get think I don’t respect the kid or his skills...and maybe his speed and agility hasn’t translated from what I’ve seen of him I’ll happily be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted April 20, 2019 Report Share Posted April 20, 2019 6 minutes ago, 5fouls said: Honestly, this recruitment is huge in terms of how I feel about Archie. It's not because I have an special attachment to Leal, because I don't. But, if Archie can't see the opportunity before him with this kid, then maybe he doesn't understand Indiana basketball any more than Crean. How often do you have a chance to get a 4 star without even really recruiting him? And, he would be getting a kid that will work his tail off, and likely bide his time waiting for his opportunity as an upperclassman. There is no way Indiana loses here. At worst, you have a 13th guy who is fulfilling his lifetime dream. It truly is a no brainer, and I an dumbfounded that an offer has not been made yet. Maybe it’s not about if but when. Perhaps he doesn’t want to have someone commit early and scare off other recruits he is in on...or god forbid what if the kid blows out his ACL and isn’t the same..geez have some patience..a lot can happen and I’m sure Archie has conveyed his appreciation for the kid and will offer when the time is right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazin Hazin Posted April 20, 2019 Report Share Posted April 20, 2019 12 minutes ago, rico said: This "snubbing" IS because of those asinine recruiting rankings. Fans(and that includes us) get enamored with them. Sad but true. My rule of thumb is always take an Indiana kid. I would argue his ranking would be an indicator that he should be here. He's rated higher than over half the guys on this year's team...including every guard not named Romeo. Don't mean to derail this-but I like recruit rankings because I don't have time to attend two-day AAU tourneys. I know ...VO and OG weren't rated that high...and Jeremy Hollowell was too high...but hey...at least they're something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted April 20, 2019 Report Share Posted April 20, 2019 4 minutes ago, dgambill said: Maybe it’s not about if but when. Perhaps he doesn’t want to have someone commit early and scare off other recruits he is in on...or god forbid what if the kid blows out his ACL and isn’t the same..geez have some patience..a lot can happen and I’m sure Archie has conveyed his appreciation for the kid and will offer when the time is right. 4 star recruits that live outside Bloomington could tear an ACL as well. That hasn't prevented us from offering some of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted April 20, 2019 Report Share Posted April 20, 2019 3 minutes ago, Blazin Hazin said: I would argue his ranking would be an indicator that he should be here. He's rated higher than over half the guys on this year's team...including every guard not named Romeo. Don't mean to derail this-but I like recruit rankings because I don't have time to attend two-day AAU tourneys. I know ...VO and OG weren't rated that high...and Jeremy Hollowell was too high...but hey...at least they're something. I am not arguing anything here....just pointing out that recruiting ratings are a very speculative "science". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted April 20, 2019 Report Share Posted April 20, 2019 Just now, 5fouls said: 4 star recruits that live outside Bloomington could tear an ACL as well. That hasn't prevented us from offering some of them. I’d argue it’s still a little early and none of them would accept on the spot. We are on a ton of guards in 20-21..Morton, Leal, Love, Landers and others and Leal is probably at the tail end of that group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADGERVOL Posted April 20, 2019 Report Share Posted April 20, 2019 It’s possible for a coach evaluate a 4 star as a 3 and a 3 as a 4, so idk. But I will agree that if Leal pans out as really good and we sign some 3 star or 4 star that flops...not good. We’ve lost those battles TOO MUCH in the past 10-15 years with instate guys... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted April 20, 2019 Report Share Posted April 20, 2019 5 minutes ago, dgambill said: I’d argue it’s still a little early and none of them would accept on the spot. We are on a ton of guards in 20-21..Morton, Leal, Love, Landers and others and Leal is probably at the tail end of that group. If you land Morton, Love is not coming and vice-versa. But, you could still land the Morton/Leal or Love/Leal combo. Lander is 2021 and a true PG. I don't see any of the other 3 impacting his recruitment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted April 20, 2019 Report Share Posted April 20, 2019 17 minutes ago, dgambill said: I’d argue it’s still a little early and none of them would accept on the spot. We are on a ton of guards in 20-21..Morton, Leal, Love, Landers and others and Leal is probably at the tail end of that group. Can you please explain to me why he's a defensive liability? You haven't addressed that yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FKIM01 Posted April 20, 2019 Report Share Posted April 20, 2019 25 minutes ago, btownqb said: Can you please explain to me why he's a defensive liability? You haven't addressed that yet. He did already...agree or not, he gave his assessment about ten posts up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted April 20, 2019 Report Share Posted April 20, 2019 1 hour ago, dgambill said: My accessment and yes maybe I’m wrong and would be pleasantly proved wrong is at this time I didn’t see that elite quickness.. he is strong and out muscles most HS kids but I just haven’t seen him blow by off the dribble to create his shot on a consistent enough basis and the defensive liability I feel is from his feet..just doesn’t have fast feet and tight in his hips so I fear his agility won’t allow him to stay in front of most B1G starting guards. Athleticism isnt all about dunking or how strong or fast...there are twitchy very quick guards in our league...and we play a defense that relies on quick close outs and lateral quickness. That is why I think he would need a couple years to adjust to speed of the game at our level. It isn’t his shooting or how strong he is or if he is big enough. Again all said I want to take the kid...perfect 4 year kid that wouldn’t complain about not getting minutes right away and stick it out til his time comes and wouldn’t transfer. Please don’t get think I don’t respect the kid or his skills...and maybe his speed and agility hasn’t translated from what I’ve seen of him I’ll happily be wrong. I don't think he has elite quickness... but I think it's good enough, and I was pleasantly surprised with his ability off the dribble because I didn't know because of his highlight films. Have you seen him in person? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted April 20, 2019 Report Share Posted April 20, 2019 28 minutes ago, FKIM01 said: He did already...agree or not, he gave his assessment about ten posts up. I didn't see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted April 20, 2019 Report Share Posted April 20, 2019 1 hour ago, btownqb said: I don't think he has elite quickness... but I think it's good enough, and I was pleasantly surprised with his ability off the dribble because I didn't know because of his highlight films. Have you seen him in person? No. I live out of state but I watch the live streams and play backs of the regionals, semi state etc along with other highlights. I watched Leals performance at Seymour against Jeff and CG and was left under whelmed. He had some moments but he didn’t pop off the screen. As for his defense he plays sound defense..good position but but often guards bigger slower guys and while he normally was in good position still was beat off the dribble at times. I think the Coleman kid if I remember right was able to get around him. Anyways I’ll take others word as they have seen him in person...but to say he is a lock for IU I can see why Archie has hesitated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted April 20, 2019 Report Share Posted April 20, 2019 18 minutes ago, dgambill said: No. I live out of state but I watch the live streams and play backs of the regionals, semi state etc along with other highlights. I watched Leals performance at Seymour against Jeff and CG and was left under whelmed. He had some moments but he didn’t pop off the screen. As for his defense he plays sound defense..good position but but often guards bigger slower guys and while he normally was in good position still was beat off the dribble at times. I think the Coleman kid if I remember right was able to get around him. Anyways I’ll take others word as they have seen him in person...but to say he is a lock for IU I can see why Archie has hesitated. Coleman is a high level D1 player himself and the best athlete in the state of Indiana in the 2020 class. Seeing just two games.. I mean you can't really come to a conclusion from that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drroogh Posted April 20, 2019 Report Share Posted April 20, 2019 2 hours ago, 5fouls said: Honestly, this recruitment is huge in terms of how I feel about Archie. It's not because I have an special attachment to Leal, because I don't. But, if Archie can't see the opportunity before him with this kid, then maybe he doesn't understand Indiana basketball any more than Crean. How often do you have a chance to get a 4 star without even really recruiting him? And, he would be getting a kid that will work his tail off, and likely bide his time waiting for his opportunity as an upperclassman. There is no way Indiana loses here. At worst, you have a 13th guy who is fulfilling his lifetime dream. It truly is a no brainer, and I an dumbfounded that an offer has not been made yet. Wait! Aren't you the one that says 11 players max? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted April 20, 2019 Report Share Posted April 20, 2019 17 minutes ago, btownqb said: Coleman is a high level D1 player himself and the best athlete in the state of Indiana in the 2020 class. Seeing just two games.. I mean you can't really come to a conclusion from that. I understand I haven’t seen him as much as others..but from all I can get on the Internet there was just things that concerned me. I also take the most value from the best competition he faced. He still looked solid had some nice passes, step back 3 etc but again...I don’t mind Archie taking his time on the recruitment. He is ours when and if we want him...why rush? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted April 20, 2019 Report Share Posted April 20, 2019 13 minutes ago, dgambill said: I understand I haven’t seen him as much as others..but from all I can get on the Internet there was just things that concerned me. I also take the most value from the best competition he faced. He still looked solid had some nice passes, step back 3 etc but again...I don’t mind Archie taking his time on the recruitment. He is ours when and if we want him...why rush? I wasnt in the camp of "we have to offer now". I'm simply saying I think he can absolutely help us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted April 20, 2019 Report Share Posted April 20, 2019 32 minutes ago, Drroogh said: Wait! Aren't you the one that says 11 players max? I do believe we should only use 11 scholarships. My reference in the post you quoted was a worst case scenario. In my opinion, having 13 schollies out is one component of a worst case scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drroogh Posted April 20, 2019 Report Share Posted April 20, 2019 1 minute ago, 5fouls said: I do believe we should only use 11 scholarships. My reference in the post you quoted was a worst case scenario. In my opinion, having 13 schollies out is one component of a worst case scenario. I could harass you more😁, but Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted April 21, 2019 Report Share Posted April 21, 2019 1 hour ago, 5fouls said: I do believe we should only use 11 scholarships. My reference in the post you quoted was a worst case scenario. In my opinion, having 13 schollies out is one component of a worst case scenario. To me Leal is the perfect kind of kid that will complement the team. Those 12th and 13th scholarships have to be unselfish type of kids that love your program and school...will sacrifice but when their time is right can contribute...that is the part I like about Leal. I don’t see him complaining about playing time and transferring...he would work hard and when he is an upper class man can be a great leader in the locker room and yes...help on the court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted April 21, 2019 Report Share Posted April 21, 2019 30 minutes ago, dgambill said: To me Leal is the perfect kind of kid that will complement the team. Those 12th and 13th scholarships have to be unselfish type of kids that love your program and school...will sacrifice but when their time is right can contribute...that is the part I like about Leal. I don’t see him complaining about playing time and transferring...he would work hard and when he is an upper class man can be a great leader in the locker room and yes...help on the court. He is a lot better than having to wait until JR and SR year to contribute though. But yes I agree.. I dont see issues. Absolutely not a 12th and 13th scholly guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madison22 Posted April 21, 2019 Report Share Posted April 21, 2019 Does anyone actually know what Leal wants? Are there interviews of him saying it? Maybe - this is total guessing on my part - he wants the chance to earn meaningful minutes right away, his freshman year. By sophomore, the chance to start some or most games, if he's good enough. At least crack the 8-man rotation. Junior and Senior, the expectation of starting, if he's earned it. Maybe Leal is the one who told Archie: "Keep watching me. Only offer if you think my scenario is reasonable. Not a guarantee, but reasonable. I also understand it's your job to keep recruiting top players at all positions, including mine. I will never complain about having elite players as teammates. But I'm not coming to IU to sit on the bench for 4 years. If you don't think I'll be good enough, don't offer." I would totally respect him for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDB Posted April 24, 2019 Report Share Posted April 24, 2019 https://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/news/four-star-indiana-guard-discusses-where-he-stands-in-recruitment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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