FBI Arrests Coaches in Corruption Scandal

[Proud2BAHoosier]

3 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

But doesn't that quote just refer to assistant coaches taking bribes to steer players toward independent agents?  Makes sense that millionaire head coaches wouldn't get involved with a two-bit scheme like that.  But shoe companies paying hundreds of thousands of dollars to secure commitments from recruits is a much different story.  I almost don't see how a head coach couldn't be involved with that.

You mean someone like Ricky P?????

[BtownBallers]

2 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Problem is now if anyone besides UK or Duke gets a top 10 kid everyone will think that school did something wrong.

I think it could be more telling if UK and Duke start not getting as many 5* recruits

[hoosier10]

Just now, IU Scott said:

Anther thing they should look at our these prep schools who are nothing more than basketball factories.  I am sure there are a lot of money changing hands getting these HS kids to go to their prep school.

Some of these academies like IMG are complete cover ups for this type of young athlete manipulation and control.

[Mac]

7 minutes ago, hoosier10 said:

Kansas seems most likely, but if I'm a UK or Duke fan I'm not comfortable at all right now.  In all honesty, I'm not comfortable as an IU fan, and I'm nearly positive Crean was clean.

I have a feeling that when the smoke finally clears, there's gonna be a lot of dirt on a lot of programs. The article linked above said that Richardson is looking at a possible 60-year sentence. It probably never occurred to him that he was doing anything remotely criminal. A lot of people are gonna be looking for cover this morning. I'll bet Mr. Kim's phone hasn't stopped ringing.

[hoosier10]

5 minutes ago, BtownBallers said:

I think it could be more telling if UK and Duke start not getting as many 5* recruits

Yup, even if they aren't punished the recruiting landscape is going to look vastly different.  You're going to need a truly large pair of balls to continue this behavior after the FBI investigation.  If they can just remove the one and done rule I think college basketball will start trending back in the direction we have desired for years- no NBA factories, less corruption with shoe companies, recruiting playing field being leveled, etc.

[Indykev]

It appears from reading, the mother of the recruit at Arizona wanted $15,000. By the time line, 38 ranked 4 star PG Brandon Williams may never play college Basketball. If proven. The money might be to hard to follow on that end.

[Reacher]

10 minutes ago, hoosier10 said:

Yup, even if they aren't punished the recruiting landscape is going to look vastly different.  You're going to need a truly large pair of balls to continue this behavior after the FBI investigation.  If they can just remove the one and done rule I think college basketball will start trending back in the direction we have desired for years- no NBA factories, less corruption with shoe companies, recruiting playing field being leveled, etc.

I think the recruiting landscape will be permanently changed. It will take a while for the dust to settle and see who the winners and losers will be.

If Indiana comes out clean we should be a big winner.

Other winners I see - Tom Crean,  the Big Ten, Illinois (will finally be able to recruit Chicago) and a bunch of other mid level schools. 

Losers- Louisville, Miami, Arizona, and hopefully Duke Kansas UCLA and Kentucky. I'm just assuming those other big schools are going to eventually get swept up in this.

[cybergates]

14 hours ago, milehiiu said:

Just like Calipari and World Wide Wes are not the best of friends.

Are Kentucky's John Calipari and William "WorldWide Wes" Wesley Cheating the System?

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/26/sports/ncaa-adidas-bribery.html?mcubz=1

"The complaints did not implicate any head coaches, perhaps for reasons explained by one of the defendants in an audio recording of a secret meeting. According to a transcript of comments by the defendant, an agent named Christian Dawkins, the path to securing commitments from college athletes went through assistant coaches, because head coaches “ain’t willing” to take bribes, “ ‘cause they’re making too much money. And it’s too risky.”

This is how Cal and Wes have always done it and leaves Cal with the defense that so many fUK fans like to bring up that he's never been in trouble it was always someone else doing something wrong that he didn't know about.

[milehiiu]

Let's face it. Noting new was uncovered yesterday.  It has been going on for decades.  From Sonny Vaccaro, to World Wide Wes.

In fact, Jim Gotto, from Adidas, learned from the guy who started this whole mess many years ago.

Sonny Vaccaro says news of Jimmy Gatto's arrest, federal corruption investigation left him stunned

 

[Bowhunter]

How about when Terrance Jones told Washington he was committing to them and when he went live he misteriously changed his pick to Kentucky. 

I always thought that was odd!

[milehiiu]

4 minutes ago, cybergates said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/26/sports/ncaa-adidas-bribery.html?mcubz=1

"The complaints did not implicate any head coaches, perhaps for reasons explained by one of the defendants in an audio recording of a secret meeting. According to a transcript of comments by the defendant, an agent named Christian Dawkins, the path to securing commitments from college athletes went through assistant coaches, because head coaches “ain’t willing” to take bribes, “ ‘cause they’re making too much money. And it’s too risky.”

This is how Cal and Wes have always done it and leaves Cal with the defense that so many fUK fans like to bring up that he's never been in trouble it was always someone else doing something wrong that he didn't know about.

At least the NCAA, has finally gotten rid of the plausible deniability defense.  No longer applies. As we saw with the "party" scandal at UL.  Pitino claimed he knew nothing about it.  And in this one instance, I could see how he might not have known.  Never the less.  Since the plausible deniability defense no longer applied, the NCAA went ahead and suspended Pitino.

[OGIUAndy]

1 hour ago, milehiiu said:

Posted  on Mike and Mike, Wednesday morning.  All four assistant coaches are facing individually, up to 80 years in prison.

Side note, Golic has no clue..... claiming schools are allowed 15 scholarship players.  

Yeah, they don't know (or talk) much outside of football. 

[tdhoosier]

i'm late to this but  a couple of questions/notes.....

- From what I heard, the FBI is arresting these people because they allegedly defrauded a federal institution. Does this mean that private schools like Duke will be in the clear even if the investigation leads that way??

-  Should Illinois have anything to work about since Brad Underwood was at OSU?

- In regards to head coaches going down, Greenberg brought up a good point. If the assistant coaches were lining their pockets it's likely they were acting in their own interest and could have gone completely rouge. It will be interesting to see how those scenarios will play out. 

[IU Scott]

10 minutes ago, milehiiu said:

Let's face it. Noting new was uncovered yesterday.  It has been going on for decades.  From Sonny Vaccaro, to World Wide Wes.

In fact, Jim Gotto, from Adidas, learned from the guy who started this whole mess many years ago.

Sonny Vaccaro says news of Jimmy Gatto's arrest, federal corruption investigation left him stunned

 

I have always said that said Sonny Vaccaro is the main guy that has ruined college basketball.

[Mac]

3 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

i'm late to this but  a couple of questions/notes.....

- From what I heard, the FBI is arresting these people because they allegedly defrauded a federal institution. Does this mean that private schools like Duke will be in the clear even if the investigation leads that way??

-  Should Illinois have anything to work about since Brad Underwood was at OSU?

- In regards to head coaches going down, Greenberg brought up a good point. If the assistant coaches were lining their pockets it's likely they were acting in their own interest and could have gone completely rouge. It will be interesting to see how those scenarios will play out. 

From the US Attorney's press conference yesterday, I understood him to say that the key was that these schools had accepted federal funding. I assume that every college in the country accepts some federal money except for some religious colleges.

[Reacher]

4 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

i'm late to this but  a couple of questions/notes.....

- From what I heard, the FBI is arresting these people because they allegedly defrauded a federal institution. Does this mean that private schools like Duke will be in the clear even if the investigation leads that way??

-  Should Illinois have anything to work about since Brad Underwood was at OSU?

- In regards to head coaches going down, Greenberg brought up a good point. If the assistant coaches were lining their pockets it's likely they were acting in their own interest and could have gone completely rouge. It will be interesting to see how those scenarios will play out. 

Looking at what the schools were charged with, I think that there will still be enough to hang schools like Duke. And then there is always the NCAA.

[Hoosierhoopster]

13 hours ago, 5fouls said:

Crean has not been our coach for the last 6 months.   While the investigation has been going on for 3 years, some of the infractions, most notably Louisville's, have occurred recently.  

I'm not following where you're going with this. You think Archie will be implicated?? Maybe I'm digging my head in the sand here, but I see no reason to believe IU is or will in any way be implicated in any of this.

[FW_Hoosier]

17 minutes ago, Reacher said:

I think the recruiting landscape will be permanently changed. It will take a while for the dust to settle and see who the winners and losers will be.

If Indiana comes out clean we should be a big winner.

Other winners I see - Tom Crean,  the Big Ten, Illinois (will finally be able to recruit Chicago) and a bunch of other mid level schools. 

Losers- Louisville, Miami, Arizona, and hopefully Duke Kansas UCLA and Kentucky. I'm just assuming those other big schools are going to eventually get swept up in this.

Illinois fans are sweating.  Lamont Evans was an assistant for Underwood when Evans was taking bribes at Oklahoma State last season.  But I see your point about the long term effects in regard to recruiting Chicago.

[jimsorgi]

6 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

i'm late to this but  a couple of questions/notes.....

- From what I heard, the FBI is arresting these people because they allegedly defrauded a federal institution. Does this mean that private schools like Duke will be in the clear even if the investigation leads that way??

-  Should Illinois have anything to work about since Brad Underwood was at OSU?

- In regards to head coaches going down, Greenberg brought up a good point. If the assistant coaches were lining their pockets it's likely they were acting in their own interest and could have gone completely rouge. It will be interesting to see how those scenarios will play out. 

1) No - Duke receives federal funding, so they can still be implicated if FBI gets enough information to extend investigation further. Same with every D1 school.

2) Good question. I don't think we've seen anything thus far that would make me too nervous if I were an Illinois fan... but I'd still be anxious.

3) I can definitely buy this for the "pay assistants to steer players to managers/agents" scheme. It would be in the assistant's best interest to do this without the head coach's knowledge. This is why Illinois doesn't have anything to be concerned about yet - the OK St. assistant coach was taking bribes to deliver players to agents. That being said, nothing precludes an assistant coach from being involved in both schemes (it appears that Book Richardson was). The second scheme - using money to direct recruits to a college - would seem, in general, to fall more heavily on the head coach.

[FW_Hoosier]

12 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

I'm not following where you're going with this. You think Archie will be implicated?? Maybe I'm digging my head in the sand here, but I see no reason to believe IU is or will in any way be implicated in any of this.

Thoughts on the situation with Vonleh?  The FBI is going to get to know Kenny very well in the coming weeks and months.

[13th&Jackson]

10 hours ago, FW_Hoosier said:

Johnson worries me the most here.  While this did happen before the investigation supposedly started in 2015, it seems pretty clear to me now that we probably cheated to get Vonleh in 2013 at the very least.  Vonleh was the highest ranked recruit Crean ever landed, he committed out of nowhere, he was from the east coast, and it was well known that Johnson was the guy who landed him for us.  Then Johnson was gone at the end of the year.

I do also wonder about what they're saying about Phinisee and Anderson on the Purdue boards.  We've all marveled at how Archie has been able to make up so much ground with the class of 2018 in so little time.  Maybe there's a reason for that...

If they investigate the Johnson/Vonleh connection, we may have to vacate the 2014 8th place Big Ten finish.

[INDenizen]

3 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said:

If they investigate the Johnson/Vonleh connection, we may have to vacate the 2014 8th place Big Ten finish.

Humor appreciated. Nicely played.

[tdhoosier]

Also, looking back through this thread....I'd like to state that I'm on the 'Bilas' side of paying athletes. I will preface my argument by saying that this does not excuse any illegal payments being made now or in the past. Everybody who broke the rules deserves what is coming to them. As long as it's the rule, everybody should abide by it.

But let's dumb this down and say what it really is:

Colleges are telling athletes (kids, mind you): we'll house you, feed you, and give you an 'education' so we can make millions of dollars off of your talent and your name. BUT you can't profit from your talent or your name.

Of course this is not for all athletes, only the best of the best, but it is not even remotely fair. And sometimes I wonder how in this day and age it is even legal. 

[CauseThatsMyDJ]

27 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

I'm not following where you're going with this. You think Archie will be implicated?? Maybe I'm digging my head in the sand here, but I see no reason to believe IU is or will in any way be implicated in any of this.

Not saying he will be implicated. But I'm not going to be the least bit surprised if IU's name comes up in this investigation - for Crean's tenure or Archie's. It's foolish to assume we are in the clear. And as 5fouls has laid out, there are plenty of connecting pieces.

[Hoosrnight]

6 minutes ago, CauseThatsMyDJ said:

Not saying he will be implicated. But I'm not going to be the least bit surprised if IU's name comes up in this investigation - for Crean's tenure or Archie's. It's foolish to assume we are in the clear. And as 5fouls has laid out, there are plenty of connecting pieces.

I've been thinking about this. We've all complained about Crean not getting some of the top recruits, maybe this is why. Maybe he really wasn't willing to play these dirty games and it definitely could have had a negative recruiting effect.