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FBI Arrests Coaches in Corruption Scandal


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6 hours ago, Hoosrnight said:

Just read this story, great read. Wow there is a lot involved in just that one player. It just shows the depths people will go to for that advantage. I feel bad for Bowen himself, to me it sounds like greedy parents almost selling off their kid. To me that's the worst part of this story and no one is really talking much about that!

I fully agree. As my first post got into. The kids themselves for the most part have live lives where they don't have a lot of money. They are probably pressured by all around to accept the money, since "every one does it", at least the 5 star kids. I can understand on the kids part, being 18 yrs. old and having so many authority figures around you, especially a parent who possibly needs money, and as a child you want to make life better for a parent or parents.

What really angers me is the money is just the start. The shoe companies view this as an investment in the future. If they get 1/5 then they are going to make money by insinuating them into their network of sports agency, money manager, etc. The fact they were paying to have tailors make kids their suits while in school tells you how far they were going to try and direct so many aspects of these kids lives. The payoff was just the opening act of this whole bribery scheme. I believe adults should bare the brunt much more than an 18 year old kid, especially one who comes from a background of hardship.

If nothing else, the one and done rule should be gone. The NCAA can't do that since kids can leave school anytime they want, so the NBA still would get what they want, and they have no incentive to eliminate it in their CBA, which is really the only way to do it. They view college as a developmental part of the process to weed out the possible busts, and learn more about these kids.

What the NCAA could do immediately is make all freshmen ineligible to play. That would make the NBA act immediately on the one and done rule, and then the NCAA could go back and change the rule allowing freshman to play once they forced the NBA's hand. I doubt anything will change, but this would make a huge dent in the problem!

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18 minutes ago, BGleas said:

He slobbers all over K, Roy, Cal, Pitino, Izzo and Boeheim. While he favors all coaches, that seems to be his core group. He defended Boeheim big time when during his suspension. 

Vitale is the worst kind of hypocrite.  Claims he loves the game, but condones and/or ignores a whole lot that diminishes the game itself.

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https://mobile.twitter.com/frazerrice/status/914282110826971136 

Ok, I am not sure how to embed a tweet, but I came across the tweet linked above, and it had a link to a piece at pagepate.com, which appears to be a law firm in Georgia. Has anyone else seen this?  (Write-up linked here: https://www.pagepate.com/chuck-person-rashan-michel-not-guilty/amp/). It was interesting to read.

 

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3 minutes ago, BeerBQ said:

http://nypost.com/2017/09/30/father-of-ex-louisville-star-my-son-was-offered-100k-from-rival/amp/

 

What got my attention:

"As he started looking at schools, an Adidas rep tried to push us toward a school in the Big 10 and another in the Big 12 that Adidas had contracts with."

 

Any other B10 schools with adidas?

Looks like maybe Nebraska and Wisconsin.

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5 minutes ago, BeerBQ said:

http://nypost.com/2017/09/30/father-of-ex-louisville-star-my-son-was-offered-100k-from-rival/amp/

 

What got my attention:

"As he started looking at schools, an Adidas rep tried to push us toward a school in the Big 10 and another in the Big 12 that Adidas had contracts with."

 

Any other B10 schools with adidas?

This is the article I got that from so I have no idea if that is up to date.  Looks like this article is from 2015.

http://www.mlive.com/wolverines/index.ssf/2015/07/comparing_michigans_nike_deal_1.html

 

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7 minutes ago, BeerBQ said:

http://nypost.com/2017/09/30/father-of-ex-louisville-star-my-son-was-offered-100k-from-rival/amp/

 

What got my attention:

"As he started looking at schools, an Adidas rep tried to push us toward a school in the Big 10 and another in the Big 12 that Adidas had contracts with."

 

Any other B10 schools with adidas?

Wisconsin is. Northwestern was at one time. Not sure beyond that. 

I'll say though, hard to take that article seriously if he wont identify himself. He said a lot of things I struggle to think someone willing to put their name on it would say. 

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6 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

Wisconsin is. Northwestern was at one time. Not sure beyond that. 

I'll say though, hard to take that article seriously if he wont identify himself. He said a lot of things I struggle to think someone willing to put their name on it would say. 

Agree.  I would add that this player is a former player at Louisville so it's hard to know how long ago this was.  This player could have played ten years ago.  Michigan used to be an adidas school as well.  

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In reading the article, it states that Adidas tried to push the kid to a school on the Big 10 or one in the Big 12.  It did not state that that push involved money.

Where money was mentioned (the $100,000 offer), it did not state that the offer came from an Adidas school.  It simply said from a 'Louisville Rival'.  That could be UK, or a school in Louisville's conference (Conference USA, Big East, American, or ACC, depending on the timing).

I don't think UL or UK clash too much in recruiting, so I would look up to the Northeast.  The story is written in the New York Post, Louisville does a lot of recruiting up that way, and I would not put it past the likes of Syracuse and UConn from offering that kind of cash. . 

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Just for fun, I googled 'Which college basketball teams pay their players the most money'.  

I was secretly hoping the first 30 matches or so would be about UK.  Instead I got the results of a legit study from 2015 that documented which colleges had the largest average stipend (presumable legal) for their basketball players.

The results are interesting in that several smaller schools are among the Top 25.  But, what's really interesting is that Auburn, Louisville, and Oklahoma State are all in the Top 10.  And, South Carolina is in the Top 20 (though it should be noted that the story indicates only 136 schools responded).  

Here's the link.

 http://host.madison.com/sports/college/basketball/updated-these-colleges-pay-their-athletes-the-most-money/collection_ab53bfb4-62c5-11e5-9ed2-9b86ea7896dc.html

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5 hours ago, BeerBQ said:

http://nypost.com/2017/09/30/father-of-ex-louisville-star-my-son-was-offered-100k-from-rival/amp/

 

What got my attention:

"As he started looking at schools, an Adidas rep tried to push us toward a school in the Big 10 and another in the Big 12 that Adidas had contracts with."

 

Any other B10 schools with adidas?

There are 4 things i dont like about this article.

1) NY Post wrote it.

2)No name of Players dad.

3)No name of school.

4)Ny Post wrote it.

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9 hours ago, BeerBQ said:

http://nypost.com/2017/09/30/father-of-ex-louisville-star-my-son-was-offered-100k-from-rival/amp/

 

What got my attention:

"As he started looking at schools, an Adidas rep tried to push us toward a school in the Big 10 and another in the Big 12 that Adidas had contracts with."

 

Any other B10 schools with adidas?

What if a player (like Noah Vonleh for example ) was pushed to Indiana by addidas without the knowledge of the school or any payments? I could see addidas throwing IU a bone every once in a while. Addidas could have promised the player some future considerations or even paid the player without the school necessarily knowing. 

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1 hour ago, milehiiu said:

milehiiu - I'm just starting to peruse that article, and as I do so, I am thinking maybe it's kind of jiving with what I saw last night (linked last night)? Here's the link - https://www.pagepate.com/chuck-person-rashan-michel-not-guilty/ I found it via a tweet I saw last night (and linked, just to give proper credit).  Back to reading..

I need more coffee, too, lol :coffee:

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18 minutes ago, MrsStoller said:

milehiiu - I'm just starting to peruse that article, and as I do so, I am thinking maybe it's kind of jiving with what I saw last night (linked last night)? Here's the link - https://www.pagepate.com/chuck-person-rashan-michel-not-guilty/ I found it via a tweet I saw last night (and linked, just to give proper credit).  Back to reading..

I need more coffee, too, lol :coffee:

Thanks MrsS  plse call me mile .:)  I am sure we are going to see a lot of interpretations going on.  But in the end, I cannot help, but go back to what the fanboards have been talking about for years and years now, in terms of cheating on the D-1 level.

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Definitely raises legitimate questions about the prosecution's / federal government's ability to demonstrate the violation of criminal law (e.g., wire fraud) on actions grounded in avoiding NCAA amateur rule policies. Key language from the article -

""But if one of the defendants were to fight the indictment in court, he could raise an interesting legal question of whether an agreement to circumvent the NCAA's amateurism policies can serve as the basis for criminal fraud. The only reason the payments to players are at all problematic legally is because the NCAA schools have agreed not to pay their players beyond their scholarships," Grow said."

As the article also points out, the likely result for most if not all of the charged defendants is the plea bargain. The Feds (and any prosecutor) carry significant leverage -- do you want to try to fight criminal charges, at significant legal expense and with the potential to go to jail, usually with multiple alleged violations making the weight of criminal charges onerous? Most if not all will work out a deal, because the possibility of losing carries such devastating consequences.

I have not had time to read through the complaint and look at the alleged criminal violations. At some point I'll get around to it, now with some interest in the legal aspect. 

I think it's a good thing that this kind of effort is being made to clean up college basketball's underbelly, but it does seem that the Feds are probably overreaching (which, fwiw, is often the case).

Quote

 

 

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8 hours ago, milehiiu said:

Thanks MrsS  plse call me mile .:)  I am sure we are going to see a lot of interpretations going on.  But in the end, I cannot help, but go back to what the fanboards have been talking about for years and years now, in terms of cheating on the D-1 level.

Mile :) - agree. I think (hope) the end result will be an increase in parity and competition - do you think so as well?

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31 minutes ago, MrsStoller said:

Mile :) - agree. I think (hope) the end result will be an increase in parity and competition - do you think so as well?

Yes. I do.  Parity in competition.  Get rid of the one and done, and we will see even more parity in D-1 BB. 

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11 hours ago, Reacher said:

What if a player (like Noah Vonleh for example ) was pushed to Indiana by addidas without the knowledge of the school or any payments? I could see addidas throwing IU a bone every once in a while. Addidas could have promised the player some future considerations or even paid the player without the school necessarily knowing. 

That's the biggest risk I see at IU. If this happened, an IU assistant coach may or may not have known, but I don't believe for one minute that Tom Crean would have knowingly gone along with such a scenario. I'd like to think that all of his assistants would follow a similar code of ethics, but with Kenny J going to Lousiville, I am less certain of that than I am of CTC's innocence.  This is probably the greatest danger to schools like Purdue where the fans think there is no way the school could get caught up in this scandal.  Even if the head coach truly had no knowledge, steering could absolutely have happened with or without the knowledge of an assistant coach who did not necessarily feel bound to the same code of ethics.

Adidas, Nike, Under Armour or whatever brand you're talking about has a vested interest in seeing schools who wear their apparel successful on the field/court and with that vested interest, could potentially pay high caliber recruits to attend a school with or without the knowledge of anyone on the coaching staff.  I don't see any power five school without risk if they have had ANY high caliber recruits play for them.

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22 minutes ago, FKIM01 said:

That's the biggest risk I see at IU. If this happened, an IU assistant coach may or may not have known, but I don't believe for one minute that Tom Crean would have knowingly gone along with such a scenario. I'd like to think that all of his assistants would follow a similar code of ethics, but with Kenny J going to Lousiville, I am less certain of that than I am of CTC's innocence.  This is probably the greatest danger to schools like Purdue where the fans think there is no way the school could get caught up in this scandal.  Even if the head coach truly had no knowledge, steering could absolutely have happened with or without the knowledge of an assistant coach who did not necessarily feel bound to the same code of ethics.

Adidas, Nike, Under Armour or whatever brand you're talking about has a vested interest in seeing schools who wear their apparel successful on the field/court and with that vested interest, could potentially pay high caliber recruits to attend a school with or without the knowledge of anyone on the coaching staff.  I don't see any power five school without risk if they have had ANY high caliber recruits play for them.

But in the UL case there is evidence that Slick Rick knew about the payment and even encouraged it.  That's much different than just having a coach on staff who did facilitate the payment without the head coach's knowledge.

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12 minutes ago, FKIM01 said:

Absolutely. Pitino deserves the hammering he is getting. My concern is that it is possible that clean coaches get caught up in this simply by receiving recruits who have received $$$ without the coach's knowledge.

IMHO.  That is a very valid concern.

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