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Tom Crean/Kevin Wilson Revelations


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Won't hear a bad word from me about Crean. Did he achieve the ultimate results we wanted? No. But 2 Big 10 titles isn't chump change and he'll have his place (positive in my mind) as the guy who said yes to a joke of an administration when we were at our lowest point in program history.

In terms of him looking for a job. After what his family dealt with (others cited). No problem there either. He and Glass were on thin ice for last 2 years. I thank IUPG for filling in the gaps.

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32 minutes ago, HoosierJax said:

How do you know Knight ran Bird off? I know  that Larry left way before basketball ever started...he was a small fish in a big pond at IU....my bother-in-law works for the pacers and talks to Larry on a weekly basis and he told me Larry felt out of place,that the campus was too big and it wasn't for him..never any mention about Knight

Well in terms that Knight used himself.  Claiming that he (Knight) did not treat Larry right. And that it was one of the biggest mistakes he ever made as the coach of Indiana University. And if he (Knight) had it to do over, Knight would have handled Larry differently.

In addition to his dissing Larry on a street of Bloomington.... there also was the time when Larry came to Coach Knight for help.  And got thrown out of the office. Not physically. Situation was, that an upcoming event was going to require the IU players to wear a suit and tie.  Something that Larry did not own, nor had ever worn.  So... Larry went to what he thought should have been his mentor, and was basically told to leave the office, with no help at all.

I will say this.  Larry has admitted that he felt out of place at IU.  But it did not help when Knight turned a cold shoulder to him.  Also Kent Benson's treatment towards Larry did not help at all.  These are things that have been published over the years, not only by Larry himself, but by others as well. Just because he had not shared them with your brother- in- law, does not mean that these things have not been published over the years. It just could be that Larry does not care to talk about them, after all these years, much like my time in the Army during the Viet Nam War.  Knight may not have run Larry off litterally.  But Knight also admits, the things he did didn't help Larry to stay. You are correct. Larry did feel intimidated by the size of IU.  However, Knight did nothing to help.

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8 minutes ago, milehiiu said:

Well in terms that Knight used himself.  Claiming that he (Knight) did not treat Larry right. And that it was one of the biggest mistakes he ever made as the coach of Indiana University. And if he (Knight) had it to do over, Knight would have handled Larry differently.

In addition to his dissing Larry on a street of Bloomington.... there also was the time when Larry came to Coach Knight for help.  And got thrown out of the office. Not physically. Situation was, that an upcoming event was going to require the IU players to wear a suit and tie.  Something that Larry did not own, nor had ever worn.  So... Larry went to what he thought should have been his mentor, and was basically told to leave the office, with no help at all.

I will say this.  Larry has admitted that he felt out of place at IU.  But it did not help when Knight turned a cold shoulder to him.  Also Kent Benson's treatment towards Larry did not help at all.  These are things that have been published over the years, not only by Larry himself, but by others as well. Just because he had not shared them with your brother- in- law, does not mean that these things have not been published over the years. It just could be that Larry does not care to talk about them, after all these years, much like my time in the Army during the Viet Nam War.  Knight may not have run Larry off litterally.  But Knight also admits, the things he did didn't help Larry to stay. You are correct. Larry did feel intimidated by the size of IU.  However, Knight did nothing to help.

I knew Benson was a prick to Larry...I have heard lots of stories about Larry from my bro in law and from a man I have had involvement with over the years Thur my employment,he was one of the guys who went with Larry to ISU and beat their Varsity in tennis shoes and jeans,this man was also offered a scholarship with Larry but couldn't do it because of personal reasons,...of course we all know how it turned out for Larry.

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9 minutes ago, Blazin Hazin said:

I just don't really like it when alumni bash the coaches/players like Jeffries.  Just rubs me the wrong way.  

Also- for all the bashing of Crean's apparent interest in other jobs- he had two jobs in a span of 15 years.  That's fewer than the most.

How about this.....

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/basketball/raptors-coach-calls-bobby-knight-coward-1.211554

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8 hours ago, IUPG said:

Regarding Crean exploring other jobs this is what I was told at the time:

Glass told Crean well before what turned out to be his final season that his contract was not being extended (I think this was common knowledge at the time). Glass also told Crean that he or his agent were free to look for other jobs. Crean came back to Glass saying that there was some interest but the salary would be in the $2.5 million range or $600K less than what IU was paying.  Glass offered to pay Crean $1.8 million as compensation for the difference in the remaining 3 years of the contract as long as Glass did not have to use the F-word (Fired). Crean decided not to take the offer and we all know how that last season turned out.

I've always thought this is why Glass was so adamant and pointed during the press conference announcing the firing that Crean would receive exactly the compensation that his contract called for. Considering the TV work that Crean did and now the contract with Georgia it looks like Glass was able to save the athletic department some money.

Clearly you are misinformed.  Glass is a raging idiot who wanted Crean to coach IU for a lifetime and beyond.  Everyone with an IQ higher than a banana knows that.:coffee:

In all seriousness, that was a great first post!

 

 

 

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As a character guy, Crean takes a back seat to no one. He succeeded in his ultimate mission, which was to bring IU back to relevance. ( to a degree, at least we were back in the conversation at times during his run) I will always be thankful, and I will cheer for the Bulldogs, especially when they play our friends in Lexington.As an X’s and O’s Guy, he was lacking. And those of us who came of age watching Coach Knight dominate, and IU winning 3 titles in 11 years, learned the x’s And o’s and it became a pre requisite for our fan base. You can’t put an inferior product on the court at Assembly Hall without our fan base knowing. I’ll never forget being at AH during a total collapse against Penn State and the Great Yogi Ferrell looking over at the bench for guidance and getting.... nothing. He had to improvise. It was no wonder to me that the year we won the big ten was the year Crean allowed Yogi to run time outs.  As a recruiter, to me, he was always searching for a diamond in the rough, the next D Wade or Victor, and had as many misses as hits. I feel he did it to prove his coaching acumen and show everyone that he really did know what he was doing. A way to play to his strengths if you will. Crean has been discussed ad nauseum, but I think it’s because DD resents IU as much as he loves it, because HE didn’t get to drive any longer than he did, and he loves to join in when we are painted as hateful ingrates. I gotta think Jared knows much more than he said...

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Well, Jeffries said at least a couple of things that deserve attention..."I knew he was always hunting for new jobs" conflicts with the idea that he only started looking at the end of his tenure when he felt he was on the hot seat.  I'd love to know what the truth was between those two as they show two very different sides of the man.

...and I'd agree with Jeffries about hating the oversign.  As a fan, you want to believe that your coach knows what he's doing with the oversign, but after the fact, I can't help wondering if that oversign habit didn't force several players into decisions they didn't want to make.

Either way, I do appreciate what Tom Crean did for a program in ashes and how he stayed positive when he left, but you can't help wondering about things you hear after a coach is gone and fans and alumni of the program no longer feel a need to keep a lid on anything negative about the coach.

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43 minutes ago, FKIM01 said:

Well, Jeffries said at least a couple of things that deserve attention..."I knew he was always hunting for new jobs" conflicts with the idea that he only started looking at the end of his tenure when he felt he was on the hot seat.  I'd love to know what the truth was between those two as they show two very different sides of the man.

...and I'd agree with Jeffries about hating the oversign.  As a fan, you want to believe that your coach knows what he's doing with the oversign, but after the fact, I can't help wondering if that oversign habit didn't force several players into decisions they didn't want to make.

Either way, I do appreciate what Tom Crean did for a program in ashes and how he stayed positive when he left, but you can't help wondering about things you hear after a coach is gone and fans and alumni of the program no longer feel a need to keep a lid on anything negative about he coach.

Special request.  Don't ever stop taking your SMART pills.  Your posts make so much sense.  At least... to me, they do.

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1 hour ago, FKIM01 said:

Well, Jeffries said at least a couple of things that deserve attention..."I knew he was always hunting for new jobs" conflicts with the idea that he only started looking at the end of his tenure when he felt he was on the hot seat.  I'd love to know what the truth was between those two as they show two very different sides of the man.

...and I'd agree with Jeffries about hating the oversign.  As a fan, you want to believe that your coach knows what he's doing with the oversign, but after the fact, I can't help wondering if that oversign habit didn't force several players into decisions they didn't want to make.

Either way, I do appreciate what Tom Crean did for a program in ashes and how he stayed positive when he left, but you can't help wondering about things you hear after a coach is gone and fans and alumni of the program no longer feel a need to keep a lid on anything negative about he coach.

Do you remember when the Crean to Alabama rumors started?  I wanna say it was after the 14-15 season, right?  So Jeffries could just be referring to his last two years at IU.

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35 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

Do you remember when the Crean to Alabama rumors started?  I wanna say it was after the 14-15 season, right?  So Jeffries could just be referring to his last two years at IU.

I wish I knew. I suspect his agent had orders to listen after the honeymoon was over, but that's just a guess based on what I've read.

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I did not like crean's style of play. But I respect that he left a comfortable position to take over a program that was circling the drain.  That was risky for him and I think we will look back and appreciate his sacrifice.  I wish him well at Georgia and hope he gives Cal a hard time.

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I hate these type of threads because of so much negativity that surrounds them. It’s easy to point out the mistakes and the bad...lots of clear examples. I agree there is a fine line and sounds like some horrible people crossed the line. That said I would feel awful if what I said in my living room could be heard too sometimes watching our teams and what Crean was doing and teaching (or not). Let’s be honest...if your s coaches wife at a game you better have a very thick skin because there are going to be times your spouse is going to have some unflattering things said about them. Down here in Kentucky...the stuff said about Tubby....wow talk about dark...horrible things...and then Gillespie...this isn’t just an IU thing. 

I will say I appreciate Creans hard work..especially the years rebuilding in the beginning and I respect as a man I’ve never heard much negativity or embarrassing things from him. That said there is no doubt in my mind he was not going to be able to lead a team to an elite status...definitely not a NC. His recruiting/scholly issues his brand of basketball and his teams lack of basketball IQ he was not going to be the answer here. Thank you Tom..appreciate your time but it was time to move on and nothing wrong with that. Those with agendas etc...I don’t have time for.

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On 7/13/2018 at 3:11 PM, milehiiu said:

Well in terms that Knight used himself.  Claiming that he (Knight) did not treat Larry right. And that it was one of the biggest mistakes he ever made as the coach of Indiana University. And if he (Knight) had it to do over, Knight would have handled Larry differently.

In addition to his dissing Larry on a street of Bloomington.... there also was the time when Larry came to Coach Knight for help.  And got thrown out of the office. Not physically. Situation was, that an upcoming event was going to require the IU players to wear a suit and tie.  Something that Larry did not own, nor had ever worn.  So... Larry went to what he thought should have been his mentor, and was basically told to leave the office, with no help at all.

I will say this.  Larry has admitted that he felt out of place at IU.  But it did not help when Knight turned a cold shoulder to him.  Also Kent Benson's treatment towards Larry did not help at all.  These are things that have been published over the years, not only by Larry himself, but by others as well. Just because he had not shared them with your brother- in- law, does not mean that these things have not been published over the years. It just could be that Larry does not care to talk about them, after all these years, much like my time in the Army during the Viet Nam War.  Knight may not have run Larry off litterally.  But Knight also admits, the things he did didn't help Larry to stay. You are correct. Larry did feel intimidated by the size of IU.  However, Knight did nothing to help.

And that’s about as close to an apology as you will get from Knight. He actually sounded remorseful. There was a lot more than just the Coach not holding his players hand that happened there. Also easy to see with the sort of team Knight had and was building that no one player would likely garner that much attention from the coach or special treatment. It was a different time back then and not to make excuses but Larry had never really stepped on the court yet for coach to know what he was truly losing. 

Also a good point with why these kids want to play with each other and evaluate the teammates as much as the coach. Carton sounded like he hit it off with the OSU kids. Hopefully our guys can create as good an environment for outsiders as Archie can create a great playing environment. One downside to having so so many instate players...we lack diversity but hopefully kids outside the state don’t feel intimidated to come into a team with so many home grown kids. Something to keep in mind for those wondering why we may not always value the local kid over some from outside the state.

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17 minutes ago, dgambill said:

And that’s about as close to an apology as you will get from Knight. He actually sounded remorseful. There was a lot more than just the Coach not holding his players hand that happened there. Also easy to see with the sort of team Knight had and was building that no one player would likely garner that much attention from the coach or special treatment. It was a different time back then and not to make excuses but Larry had never really stepped on the court yet for coach to know what he was truly losing. 

Also a good point with why these kids want to play with each other and evaluate the teammates as much as the coach. Carton sounded like he hit it off with the OSU kids. Hopefully our guys can create as good an environment for outsiders as Archie can create a great playing environment. One downside to having so so many instate players...we lack diversity but hopefully kids outside the state don’t feel intimidated to come into a team with so many home grown kids. Something to keep in mind for those wondering why we may not always value the local kid over some from outside the state.

When Larry Bird first hit the campus, Bobby Knight never considered Larry more than a bench filler.  True.

Good friend of mine years ago told me the story of how one day, Knight unexpectedly showed up at a pick up game that Larry was participating in.  Coach was on fire.  Yelling and screaming.  Larry figured he could not be the source of the fire. As Larry had just hit a jumper.  Yet only to find that Larry was, in fact the center of the firestorm.  For failing to set a screen, prior to hitting his shot. 

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If you want to blame anyone for the treatment of Tom Crean and his family towards the end of his tenure here blame our administration and not the fans.  I don't condone it but unfortunately many of our fanbase assumed that our administration was so greatly incompetent and out of touch with reality that the only way to get rid of Crean was to make life so truly miserable for Tom and his family that Joani would ultimately force him to leave. 

Say what you want about the school down South but they don't mess around there and would've no doubt cut bait after year 3 just like they did with BillyG.  If our administration cared about winning like they do none of that behavior would've ever been necessary.  Even after everything that happened and how poorly we performed at the end of Crean's tenure 0708 has said that had Fred's hand not been forced that Crean would've had a year 10.  That is a level of incompetence that truly knows no bounds folks.

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2 hours ago, dbmhoosier said:

If you want to blame anyone for the treatment of Tom Crean and his family towards the end of his tenure here blame our administration and not the fans.  I don't condone it but unfortunately many of our fanbase assumed that our administration was so greatly incompetent and out of touch with reality that the only way to get rid of Crean was to make life so truly miserable for Tom and his family that Joani would ultimately force him to leave. 

Say what you want about the school down South but they don't mess around there and would've no doubt cut bait after year 3 just like they did with BillyG.  If our administration cared about winning like they do none of that behavior would've ever been necessary.  Even after everything that happened and how poorly we performed at the end of Crean's tenure 0708 has said that had Fred's hand not been forced that Crean would've had a year 10.  That is a level of incompetence that truly knows no bounds folks.

I agree with you...especially the Kentucky part. They went far and away much harsher with their words and vitrol for Tubby and Gillespie. I would never condone what is reportedly been said and done to Creans family...but I do think that Glass was a bit slow to move and that created a more hostile environment for Crean. I'm sure many a fan thought the only way to get attention of the administration (at least any without big $$) was to boo and vocally show their displeasure of Tom's job. I appreciate his efforts...I don't think he just coasted or made a money grab. He tried very hard and I would say handled himself with class. Thank him for the good times and the good players he brought in...but in the end it just wasn't enough and yes was time to move on. This isn't an easy place to coach...the fan base will see right through a guy that is in over his head. I wish Tom well and hope he continues to beat UK on a regular occasion. We made the right move...and perhaps if we made it sooner we would have been a tournament team last year...but who knows if we would have the right coach for the long term...so I am happy with how it all worked out knowing we have Archie.

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3 hours ago, dbmhoosier said:

If you want to blame anyone for the treatment of Tom Crean and his family towards the end of his tenure here blame our administration and not the fans.  I don't condone it but unfortunately many of our fanbase assumed that our administration was so greatly incompetent and out of touch with reality that the only way to get rid of Crean was to make life so truly miserable for Tom and his family that Joani would ultimately force him to leave. 

Say what you want about the school down South but they don't mess around there and would've no doubt cut bait after year 3 just like they did with BillyG.  If our administration cared about winning like they do none of that behavior would've ever been necessary.  Even after everything that happened and how poorly we performed at the end of Crean's tenure 0708 has said that had Fred's hand not been forced that Crean would've had a year 10.  That is a level of incompetence that truly knows no bounds folks.

If you could get over your hatred for glass you would actually see that he has done very good job.  I don't know if he stole your lunch money or what but you have a very unhealthly hatred for the guy. I can blame the fans for their childish attacks on Crean that was totally uncalled for and can't understand any human being that mean to a basketball coach.

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On 7/13/2018 at 2:10 PM, Jerry Lundergaard said:

 

While Crean may not have personally "slung" anything at the university, IIRC, the Harbaugh family came out with some pretty harsh statements after Tom was let go, and he didn't act at all to quiet them. One of the criticisms of Crean was that he was a better p.r. man than coach, and if he could let someone else do the mud slinging for him,  it appears that he was only happy to step aside and let them.

I agree, he brought the program out of an abyss. I also agree that his style of basketball was not conducive to consistent, winning teams. Glad he took the job. Glad he's gone. Leave it at that.

Not disagreeing with your assessments but i am not sure anyone has ever been able to quiet the Harbaugh family

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19 hours ago, Billingsley99 said:

Not disagreeing with your assessments but i am not sure anyone has ever been able to quiet the Harbaugh family

Agree with both you and Jerry. I think of Harbaugh's comments as just bunch of noise. Tom Crean and IU just didn't work. Anyone who didn't see that was delusional. What I can say with confidence is if it was at any other top 5 ~ 7 schools, Crean would've been fired well before 9th season. Other than some knucklehead fans, IU has been VERY nice to Crean and other coaches. 

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