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7 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I doubt he realizes that fans can influence recruits for the good and the bad.  If the fans are always negative and calling for the coaches head everyday it will hurt as much as anything.  This fan base can be a huge asset with how loyal we can be and the huge following of the basketball program.  It also can be a negative as well especially now with social media and more people can spout out non sense

I 1000% agree. I’m soooo freaking tired of all of these “fans” being babies because we didn’t get a couple recruits. In the 2021 in state class there was literally 1 or maybe 2 players I wanted everyone else to me wasn’t worth it... they also are forgetting that our 2020 class was loaded and 3 of the 4 are 4 year players. People need to chill out and stop worrying. In the words of Aaron Rodgers R-E-L-A-X

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3 hours ago, Shapopojoe said:

Ugh...here we go....this forum quickly becomes a group-think only model in a hurry....dissenters must be silenced!!! IU fans who dare to question must be exiled! Give it a rest....2021 class minus Logan has been a failure if you look solely on recruits that were needed/wanted...if anything, that opinion is at MINIMUM debatable....questioning loyalty is pathetic

IU fans can be disappointed, but it's absolutely fair to call a troll a troll.

Sorry...Mike is a troll.  A Turdue fan in drag would not surprise me.

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23 minutes ago, CincyHoosier said:

So if we don't get Miller or Aminu we're still fine?  2021 recruiting class of 1 guy is fine?  I get it that 2020 is different, transfers, yada yada.  But to me this would be a big problem to have 1 legitimate recruit in a year in which we really need 3-4.  

I don’t think we know because of the free year. Transfers and Brunk and or Durham coming back etc 

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For all you "fans" that think Archie's recruiting is in the toilet...ask yourself this...how many of these highly ranked recruits would even be an IU consideration if Crean were still here.

I suspect we'd be speculating on kids from the 150's-200 rankings. We got lucky with Vic, Sheehy. But I seriously doubt if Lander, Romeo, Logan, Kaufman, Miller and others would even consider IU if Crean were still here.

Archie is recruiting "his type" of player. This year's team is his guys. I'm more than confident we'll see a great team on the floor this year. I'm looking for top 5 (even top 3) in the B1G. 

I don't think we should be looking for lynch-mob participants for Archie anytime soon.

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24 minutes ago, DWB said:

For all you "fans" that think Archie's recruiting is in the toilet...ask yourself this...how many of these highly ranked recruits would even be an IU consideration if Crean were still here.

I suspect we'd be speculating on kids from the 150's-200 rankings. We got lucky with Vic, Sheehy. But I seriously doubt if Lander, Romeo, Logan, Kaufman, Miller and others would even consider IU if Crean were still here.

Archie is recruiting "his type" of player. This year's team is his guys. I'm more than confident we'll see a great team on the floor this year. I'm looking for top 5 (even top 3) in the B1G. 

I don't think we should be looking for lynch-mob participants for Archie anytime soon.

This. The answer to your first question is 0. 
 

team chemistry this year will be greater than it ever has been!

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1 hour ago, DWB said:

For all you "fans" that think Archie's recruiting is in the toilet...ask yourself this...how many of these highly ranked recruits would even be an IU consideration if Crean were still here.

I suspect we'd be speculating on kids from the 150's-200 rankings. We got lucky with Vic, Sheehy. But I seriously doubt if Lander, Romeo, Logan, Kaufman, Miller and others would even consider IU if Crean were still here.

Archie is recruiting "his type" of player. This year's team is his guys. I'm more than confident we'll see a great team on the floor this year. I'm looking for top 5 (even top 3) in the B1G. 

I don't think we should be looking for lynch-mob participants for Archie anytime soon.

I guess I still have expectations to be a perennial top 4 team in the Big 10 at some point in Archie's tenure.  I think he is a very good coach but he needs to bring in talent every year to get there. And he may not if Creighton and Purdue are thought to be better destinations for 2 of our top of the board recruits.  

We are slated by most unbiased prognosticators to be in the 7-9 range again.  I think most of us would be disappointed in that finish.  We better start exceeding expectations at some point or the talent will drop off even farther.  We have TJD, Lander, and maybe Hunter.  Then a bunch of guys in the 100-150 range.  I consider that more Illinois or Iowa, not Indiana.  But maybe I'm living in the past and we will never again be what we all think we should be. 

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33 minutes ago, CincyHoosier said:

I guess I still have expectations to be a perennial top 4 team in the Big 10 at some point in Archie's tenure.  I think he is a very good coach but he needs to bring in talent every year to get there. And he may not if Creighton and Purdue are thought to be better destinations for 2 of our top of the board recruits.  

We are slated by most unbiased prognosticators to be in the 7-9 range again.  I think most of us would be disappointed in that finish.  We better start exceeding expectations at some point or the talent will drop off even farther.  We have TJD, Lander, and maybe Hunter.  Then a bunch of guys in the 100-150 range.  I consider that more Illinois or Iowa, not Indiana.  But maybe I'm living in the past and we will never again be what we all think we should be. 

Duncomb is a top 70 player and I think Geronimo ended up in the top 100.  I think if people expectations is to get back to RMK days then it might be a little unrealistic or if you think we can get to where Duke, KU or UK are then it is off as well.  Even under RMK we were never a championship caliber team every year.  It seemed like every 4 or 5 year he would assemble a team to go all the way and it built through the other 3 or 4 years.  Yes we made the tournament almost every year but there were a lot of early exits as well.  Besides 75 and 76 and 92 and 93 we did not have back to back great seasons.

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1 minute ago, IU Scott said:

Duncomb is a top 70 player and I think Geronimo ended up in the top 10.  I think if people expectations is to get back to RMK days then it might be a little unrealistic or if you think we can get to where Duke, KU or UK are then it is off as well.  Even under RMK we were never a championship caliber team every year.  It seemed like every 4 or 5 year he would assemble a team to go all the way and it built through the other 3 or 4 years.  Yes we made the tournament almost every year but there were a lot of early exits as well.  Besides 75 and 76 and 92 and 93 we did not have back to back great seasons.

I agree here...I think Archie is setting his self up nicely honestly..players like Leal, Galloway, Geronimo, Race, Duncomb are 4 year type players...you then sprinkle in a Lander, TJD, maybe and Aminu...those are national title rosters...UK is always good but they don’t always win the title even though they have the best class after class. You have to have some 3 or 4 year men on the teams

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8 minutes ago, gnet550 said:

I agree here...I think Archie is setting his self up nicely honestly..players like Leal, Galloway, Geronimo, Race, Duncomb are 4 year type players...you then sprinkle in a Lander, TJD, maybe and Aminu...those are national title rosters...UK is always good but they don’t always win the title even though they have the best class after class. You have to have some 3 or 4 year men on the teams

Maybe, but we have to start winning more games.  I don't think any of us want to be Kentucky but I think most of us believe Indiana's place is near the top of the Big 10 every year.  I also think most college basketball insiders would agree.

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1 minute ago, CincyHoosier said:

Maybe, but we have to start winning more games.  I don't think any of us want to be Kentucky but I think most of us believe Indiana's place is near the top of the Big 10 every year.  I also think most college basketball insiders would agree.

Lately the big ten is a lot deeper than it use to be.  Back when there were only 10 teams you had two teams who were automatic wins in NW and UW. You then probably had 4 teams in the middle who were good but not great. You usually had 4  teams at the top who were capable of winning the championship.  To me back then when were the top team the very top of the conference were way better back then than it is today.  Where the difference is that I think top to bottom the depth of the league goes deeper making it harder to finish in the top 4 every year.

 

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4 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Lately the big ten is a lot deeper than it use to be.  Back when there were only 10 teams you had two teams who were automatic wins in NW and UW. You then probably had 4 teams in the middle who were good but not great. You usually had 4  teams at the top who were capable of winning the championship.  To me back then when were the top team the very top of the conference were way better back then than it is today.  Where the difference is that I think top to bottom the depth of the league goes deeper making it harder to finish in the top 4 every year.

 

And yet there are MSU, Michigan, and Wisconsin nearly every damn year. 

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16 minutes ago, CincyHoosier said:

Maybe, but we have to start winning more games.  I don't think any of us want to be Kentucky but I think most of us believe Indiana's place is near the top of the Big 10 every year.  I also think most college basketball insiders would agree.

I know, but I’m saying Archie is just now really getting his guys in the program. I think we started to see the change last year. I think this year and next we are going to start seeing major progress.

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1 hour ago, IU Scott said:

UM finished 9th last year and UW had an off season two years ago

CincyHoosier did say "nearly."

Here are some numbers. Top 4 in conference since 2000-2001 (last 20 seasons):

MSU: 16 (1st 7 times also 1st the 3 years prior '01)

Michigan: 7 (5 in last 20 years, 1st 2 times)

Wisconsin: 18 (5th in '01, 9th in '18, 1st 5 times)

 

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3 minutes ago, go_iu_bb said:

CincyHoosier did say "nearly."

Here are some numbers. Top 4 in conference since 2000-2001 (last 20 seasons):

MSU: 16 (1st 7 times also 1st the 3 years prior '01)

Michigan: 7 (5 in last 20 years, 1st 2 times)

Wisconsin: 18 (5th in '01, 9th in '18, 1st 5 times)

 

So two out of 14 teams have constantly finished in the top 4.  Might point was when we were at the top of the big ten you only had 10 teams.  Another thing those two teams have a HOF coaches which we did ad well when we dominated the conference.  I just wish the fans would show some patience with Archie because don't blame him for what had happened the last 25 years.  We have complained about ever coach since RMK left and that really has not helped.  Crean did at least win 3 conference championships in 5 years but that wasn't good enough.  We had a coach who had us in the lead in the championship game with 10 minutes to go. People complained about that and said that actually was a bad thing.  We want coaches to win the conference and do well in the tournament but had two coaches who did that but people still wasn't happy

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9 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

So two out of 14 teams have constantly finished in the top 4.  Might point was when we were at the top of the big ten you only had 10 teams.  Another thing those two teams have a HOF coaches which we did ad well when we dominated the conference.  I just wish the fans would show some patience with Archie because don't blame him for what had happened the last 25 years.  We have complained about ever coach since RMK left and that really has not helped.  Crean did at least win 3 conference championships in 5 years but that wasn't good enough.  We had a coach who had us in the lead in the championship game with 10 minutes to go. People complained about that and said that actually was a bad thing.  We want coaches to win the conference and do well in the tournament but had two coaches who did that but people still wasn't happy

In that same timeframe Purdue had 11 top 4 finishes.

If you look at just the last 10 years those teams are even more dominate:

Michigan: 6

MSU: 9

Purdue: 6

Wisconsin: 9

Maryland since joining B1G: 4 of 6 seasons

That's 2 dominate teams and 2 teams that have finished top 4 more often than not. This shows that doing consistently well in conference isn't impossible, even now. Wisconsin hasn't had that HoF coach the whole time.

IU the last 20: 8 times. The last 10: 2 (both 1st place)

I agree that it's coaching. IU hasn't had good coaches the last 20 years. The jury is still out on Miller but his record hasn't been great so far. Hopefully this will be the breakout year.

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1 minute ago, go_iu_bb said:

In that same timeframe Purdue had 11 top 4 finishes.

If you look at just the last 10 years those teams are even more dominate:

Michigan: 6

MSU: 9

Purdue: 6

Wisconsin: 9

Maryland since joining B1G: 4 of 6 seasons

That's 2 dominate teams and 2 teams that have finished top 4 more often than not. This shows that doing consistently well in conference isn't impossible, even now. Wisconsin hasn't had that HoF coach the whole time.

IU the last 20: 8 times. The last 10: 2 (both 1st place)

I agree that it's coaching. IU hasn't had good coaches the last 20 years. The jury is still out on Miller but his record hasn't been great so far. Hopefully this will be the breakout year.

Win totals had went up every year and offensive and defensive stays had gotten better every year.  I know ad fans we want to see instant gratification but it doesn't always happens.  I am sure people on Villanova fan sites were probably saying the same thing about Jay Wright after 3 years.

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13 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Win totals had went up every year and offensive and defensive stays had gotten better every year.  I know ad fans we want to see instant gratification but it doesn't always happens.  I am sure people on Villanova fan sites were probably saying the same thing about Jay Wright after 3 years.

I understand that. But at some point the improvement has to be reflected in conference standing which means conference wins, not just overall. The majority of the season, after all, is played in conference (20 games). 

I can't help but to think that some of his recruiting misses have been because not only has the team not win a lot, but their offense has often been ugly and stagnant.

Maybe Miller will figure it out, maybe not. I hope he does, and sooner rather than later.

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