2021 Recruiting Hub

[DC2345]

Archie is a good coach and a good recruiter but he might not be great like many have hoped. He came from Dayton He did miss a lot with this class similar to how Crean did in 2017 and this one was even deeper than that one. Adding Stewart was a good make up for some of the others but he has to hope some of these guys start panning out in order to compete at the top of the B1G and he does need to start getting some top 20 guys too. I get how people bring up his Dayton record but the truth is everyone wins at Dayton. Since 1947 only one coach has had a losing record at the school so he really needs to make big strides in the B1G and against Purdue starting now since he has a record of 26-32 in the conference. I want the team to do well and they've played well so far but things are going to get tougher and the B1G is the best conference in country by a pretty large margin this year. 

[Billingsley99]

15 minutes ago, DC2345 said:

Archie is a good coach and a good recruiter but he might not be great like many have hoped. He came from Dayton He did miss a lot with this class similar to how Crean did in 2017 and this one was even deeper than that one. Adding Stewart was a good make up for some of the others but he has to hope some of these guys start panning out in order to compete at the top of the B1G and he does need to start getting some top 20 guys too. I get how people bring up his Dayton record but the truth is everyone wins at Dayton. Since 1947 only one coach has had a losing record at the school so he really needs to make big strides in the B1G and against Purdue starting now since he has a record of 26-32 in the conference. I want the team to do well and they've played well so far but things are going to get tougher and the B1G is the best conference in country by a pretty large margin this year. 

Very well said. I am not in the fire the coach camp by no means. It just pushes IU farther back. I dont expect him to be both great recruiter and great coach but at this point for me the jury is still out if he is either. Just win and it takes care of itself

[Zuckerkorn]

34 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

Not going to go back and quote from 2 years ago but so many on this board myself included said 21 was best high school class in Indiana since ______________. This class will be the 1 that puts CAM over the top etc... Now many of those same posters not me this time, are makes excuses that its ok no.big deal etc... My good PU buddy reminds me on a regular about all the "Archie locked the state down" and the fact that we have not beaten PU with CAM. I am curious why those people that said all those things about all these in state kids are fine that we landed 1 good player from Ohio. In which I like a lot. 

TL:DR - Recruiting has been a mixed bag, probably not what most expect.  You have to find a way to win and recruit effectively enough to be successful.

 

IMO, it's just trying to be optimistic.  I think we have to accept that 2021 was a "whiff" and move on.

The fact that this season doesn't "count" for eligibility is certainly a unique twist.  Rationalizing it away, saying that our current freshmen are getting a mulligan and that makes them freshmen next year (and hence 2021 recruiting is moot) makes little sense to me.  Every school will have an extra class of 2nd year "freshmen" next year so we gain nothing other than to not have a depleted roster.  We will, theoretically, "get older" and more experienced, but so will everyone else.

The locking down the state thing is a valid point.  Not only has that "dominance" waned, I have to wonder just how accurate it is in fact.  It could be argued that TJD is really the only "difference maker" recruit thus far in the CAM era.  Romeo was very good with a load of potential, but no where near being a star (yes, much due to injury) and playing 90% of a single season did little to move the program forward.  Rob has been a study in unfulfilled promise - rather disappointing, IMO.  We all expected that in his third season Phin would be a much more significant and consistent contributor - and that just hasn't come to pass (again, injuries played a big part).  Then there's Hunter, who we all are desperately pulling for, but injuries again.

The other half of recruiting, that is out of state players, has been a total failure when it comes to 5-star type players.  Unless I'm mistaken, not a single one.  I struggle to come up with the name of an out of state player that HAS been a major contributor.  Maybe Hunter will get there.  Maybe one of the young guys, like Geronimo, will get there, but there is zero certainty about that.

Thus far, beyond TJD & Romeo, our recruiting success has hinged on hope.  Hope that players will outperform their rankings, or prove they were under rated.  Armaan shows signs of being a player in that mold.  But my goodness, the other teams in the B10 aren't sitting around flat-footed, they're out there winning recruiting battles and bringing in better players.  Without incredible coaching, that is not a recipe for climbing to the top of the standings.

Getting the best players isn't the only route to building a winning program.  It can help, a lot, but it's not essential. 

The job of the head coach is to win games, ensure the players achieve academic goals, and run his program within the rules of the NCAA and the school that employs him.  Obviously, the second two responsibilities are important, but if you don't win, you're not succeeding.  There comes a time when a coach must be judged on his W's and L's, when that time comes for CAM and what the criteria is are not up to the fans, but it will come sooner or later.

[ledies22]

This thread is depressing. Can we make a 2022 board? half serious, half kidding.

[NotIThatLives]

4 hours ago, Billingsley99 said:

Not going to go back and quote from 2 years ago but so many on this board myself included said 21 was best high school class in Indiana since ______________. 

Well hindsight has caught up to this idea.  Is the 21 class deep with 100-300 talent?  Yes, it always is in Indiana.  It's very fair to say, 2 years ago, we were all over rating this class.  And the highest rated guy in this class is already getting reps in candy stripes.  

Currently there are what, 2 guys in the top 100. Best class since?  Maybe deep but not best   Furst now into the 70s and our boy Duncomb worked him this summer.  Big whiff on TK.  That hurt me and a few Silver Creek guys on a personal level.  Painter won't help his NBA aspirations, so that anlysis by the kid was off.  He may somehow get the usage, at the 3, which he thinks will make him a pro.  I don't think CAM was promising anything at the 3 for him as he doesn't fit CAM 3 profile.  Other than that, what do you want?  Reach for a few of these 3 star guys that may or may not be B1G talent?

[FKIM01]

It's depressing because the people posting here are overly pessimistic. I do believe IU is a lot closer to winning the Big Ten than they were five years ago.  Don't see it happening this year, but the gap has been closed a lot since Archie got here.  If that trend continues, it won't be long.

[NotIThatLives]

The myth of 2021 exposed in rankings.  

https://247sports.com/Season/2021-Basketball/RecruitRankings/?InstitutionGroup=highschool&State=IN

[BDB]

2 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

The myth of 2021 exposed in rankings.  

https://247sports.com/Season/2021-Basketball/RecruitRankings/?InstitutionGroup=highschool&State=IN

Dang, Luke Brown at 18 in the state?

[Billingsley99]

3 minutes ago, FKIM01 said:

It's depressing because the people posting here are overly pessimistic. I do believe IU is a lot closer to winning the Big Ten than they were five years ago.  Don't see it happening this year, but the gap has been closed a lot since Archie got here.  If that trend continues, it won't be long.

I dont think I am being pessimistic but I had more confidence in CTC winning a conference title than I do with CAM. I hope and want to be so wrong, I will gladly eat my crow. I just dont feel we are nearly as close as we should be and I am tired of being in the same conversations with the Northwesterns and Minnesota and Nebraska of the world. Many seem to be fine with it and see no sense of urgency. I want it now.😀

[FKIM01]

5 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

The myth of 2021 exposed in rankings.  

https://247sports.com/Season/2021-Basketball/RecruitRankings/?InstitutionGroup=highschool&State=IN

Looks like a deep class, but not really an elite class to be honest.  Lander moving up appears to have changed the tone a bit.  With the exception of Kaufman, it doesn't really look like any of them blew up.

[Billingsley99]

If Tom Allen can get Indiana football to the place he has in that amount of time there is no reason CAM can't with our basketball program.

[FKIM01]

10 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

If Tom Allen can get Indiana football to the place he has in that amount of time there is no reason CAM can't with our basketball program.

How long has Tom Allen been on the staff at IU?  It's no coincidence that defense got better faster.

Edited December 22, 2020 by FKIM01

[go_iu_bb]

9 minutes ago, FKIM01 said:

Looks like a deep class, but not really an elite class to be honest.  Lander moving up appears to have changed the tone a bit.  With the exception of Kaufman, it doesn't really look like any of them blew up.

That sums up the IN '21 class pretty well. Furst dropped a bit nationally from where he was, as well, which didn't help the top of the class. He was in the 30s and ended up at 58. So instead of a top 10/15 player with Lander and 2 top 40 players at the top of the class, it's just 1 top 40 and 1 top 60.

[Billingsley99]

Just now, FKIM01 said:

How long has Tom Allen been on the staff at IU?  It's no coincidence that defense bot better faster.

Ok CAM is wonderful we should just be happy to be top 10 in the BIG. oh shoot we were 11th close enough. 

[FKIM01]

1 minute ago, Billingsley99 said:

Ok CAM is wonderful we should just be happy to be top 10 in the BIG. oh shoot we were 11th close enough. 

😂😂😂...surely there's some middle ground here...

[Billingsley99]

Just now, FKIM01 said:

😂😂😂...surely there's some middle ground here...

Probably I am just not sold that we have the answer and we may never. Tired of middle to bottom of the conference .

[5fouls]

5 hours ago, Billingsley99 said:

Not going to go back and quote from 2 years ago but so many on this board myself included said 21 was best high school class in Indiana since ______________. This class will be the 1 that puts CAM over the top etc... Now many of those same posters not me this time, are makes excuses that its ok no.big deal etc... My good PU buddy reminds me on a regular about all the "Archie locked the state down" and the fact that we have not beaten PU with CAM. I am curious why those people that said all those things about all these in state kids are fine that we landed 1 good player from Ohio. In which I like a lot. 

In theory, in the backcourt, we got what we needed from the class of '21 with Lander.  We won't miss not getting Wesley.  Anything else in the backcourt would have been icing on the cake. 

Our big misses in the class are with the frontcourt.  . With the structure of our roster, we needed either Furst or Kaufman,  Missing out on both hurts, and losing both to Purdue is worst case scenario.  IU needs a Max Biefeldt level grad transfer, or the lack of a second Big out of the class of '21 could set us back a couple of years.   

[go_iu_bb]

3 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

Ok CAM is wonderful we should just be happy to be top 10 in the BIG. oh shoot we were 11th close enough. 

They were tied for 10th. Just seeded 11th in the B1GT.

It's a minor distinction and probably pedantic on my part but a distinction that should be made. If they tied for 1st but ended up as the 2nd seed you wouldn't say they finished 2nd in the conference, would you?

[FKIM01]

1 minute ago, Billingsley99 said:

Probably I am just not sold that we have the answer and we may never. Tired of middle to bottom of the conference .

That assumes the improvement we've observed in the KenPom ratings on both sides of the ball stall out where they are and get no better.  That doesn't match what's been actually happening and I see no reason to assume this is as good as it gets.  I know it's not happening fast enough to suit you, but IU has gotten better/more efficient every year since Archie arrived.  If it keeps improving, they'll keep climbing toward the top of the heap.  It's objectively the best conference in American the last two years, so the closer you get to the top of the mountain, the stiffer the competition, but I like the trajectory even if it's not steep enough for some of IU's fans.

[Billingsley99]

2 minutes ago, go_iu_bb said:

They were tied for 10th. Just seeded 11th in the B1GT.

It's a minor distinction and probably pedantic on my part but a distinction that should be made. If they tied for 1st but ended up as the 2nd seed you wouldn't say they finished 2nd in the conference, would you?

True, I will start the petition to raise the Were #10 banner and get the mold for the rings fired up! I kid!! 😀

[5fouls]

37 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

The myth of 2021 exposed in rankings.  

https://247sports.com/Season/2021-Basketball/RecruitRankings/?InstitutionGroup=highschool&State=IN

When everyone was talking about the class 2-3 years ago, Lander was in it.  Even so, let's not discount some of those guys because of their ranking.  As it stands, there are 21 D1 players out there already.  That's almost 2 All-Star Teams.  There are years where Indiana doesn't produce enough to fill out one all star team.

- Since IU missed out on Furst and Kaufman, DJ Hughes would have provided solid frontcourt depth.

- Barnhizer is going to be a good Big Ten player.  We just happen to be full at his position.

- 2-3 years from now, Kooper Jacobi is going to be a player that Big Ten schools will be kicking themselves for missing out on 

- Luke Brown is a basketball player.  Would he be all Big Ten?  No.  But as an upperclassman, he could help a Big Ten team.

Jake Heidreber, like Jacobi, is another one that bigger schools are going to wonder how they overlooked him when it is all said and done.

 

 

[NotIThatLives]

4 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

When everyone was talking about the class 2-3 years ago, Lander was in it.  Even so, let's not discount some of those guys because of their ranking.  As it stands, there are 21 D1 players out there already.  That's almost 2 All-Star Teams.  There are years where Indiana doesn't produce enough to fill out one all star team.

- Since IU missed out on Furst and Kaufman, DJ Hughes would have provided solid frontcourt depth.

- Barnhizer is going to be a good Big Ten player.  We just happen to be full at his position.

- 2-3 years from now, Kooper Jacobi is going to be a player that Big Ten schools will be kicking themselves for missing out on 

- Luke Brown is a basketball player.  Would he be all Big Ten?  No.  But as an upperclassman, he could help a Big Ten team.

Jake Heidreber, like Jacobi, is another one that bigger schools are going to wonder how they overlooked him when it is all said and done.

 

 

So you answered my question.  Yes go ahead and reach or take a chance on a 3 star.  It's a weird year.  Transfer rules lifted.  Possibly Al and Brunk return.  Shoot, possibly TJD returns.  I have a hard time believing that's not a top 10 if not top 5 team in the country next year.  

[5fouls]

3 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

So you answered my question.  Yes go ahead and reach or take a chance on a 3 star.  It's a weird year.  Transfer rules lifted.  Possibly Al and Brunk return.  Shoot, possibly TJD returns.  I have a hard time believing that's not a top 10 if not top 5 team in the country next year.  

If TJD returns, we're fine.  Still need a little more frontcourt depth, but having an all-american level player in the frontcourt limits the amount of bodies you need there.  If neither Brunk or TJD return, we're in trouble without a solid grad-transfer.

 

[ledies22]

why does every thread turn into calling for CAM's head? The discussion has become nauseating. Can we agree to just table that until this time next year? I would even settle for the end of this season.

[Billingsley99]

17 minutes ago, ledies22 said:

why does every thread turn into calling for CAM's head? The discussion has become nauseating. Can we agree to just table that until this time next year? I would even settle for the end of this season.

I.must have missed all those posts you are referring to.