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A lot of the passes Lagow threw against OSU are passes only a QB with faith and confidence would throw. The fan favored local kid scrambling QB approach was a dismal failure. So now Lagow was benched and we are playing three top level teams in the next four weeks. It will be interesting to see if the coaches made a mistake. We can’t beat these coming teams with a six foot average thrower and average runner and we can’t beat them with a conservative thrower. It will be interesting. 

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Did I miss something?  Ramsey only threw 8 passes last weekend.  We were up 24-0 before he ever threw a pass.  We scored touchdowns on 3 of his first 4 possessions.  After we get up like we were, I don't put much credence in what happens after that.  We start subbing people in and out, start playing much more conservative, and its tough to mentally stay in a game like that.  I think Ramsey will be perfectly fine.

With QBs like we have, I like the 2 QB approach.  Lagow can either be great or terrible.  When he's having a bad day, bring in Ramsey.  If we're playing a team with a lot more speed that negates Ramsey's legs like OSU, we can let Lagow whip it around 40+ times.  We don't have anybody good enough to be a lock as a starter, so I like having the two different options.

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15 hours ago, Leathernecks said:

Did I miss something?  Ramsey only threw 8 passes last weekend.  We were up 24-0 before he ever threw a pass.  We scored touchdowns on 3 of his first 4 possessions.  After we get up like we were, I don't put much credence in what happens after that.  We start subbing people in and out, start playing much more conservative, and its tough to mentally stay in a game like that.  I think Ramsey will be perfectly fine.

With QBs like we have, I like the 2 QB approach.  Lagow can either be great or terrible.  When he's having a bad day, bring in Ramsey.  If we're playing a team with a lot more speed that negates Ramsey's legs like OSU, we can let Lagow whip it around 40+ times.  We don't have anybody good enough to be a lock as a starter, so I like having the two different options.

two qb doesn’t work. All it does is take touches away from both and if you are any good the loss of touches shows up later in the year. As for not having anyone good enough to be a lock starter, Urban and everyone on tv who has played the game at a high level seemed to think that we did but we benched him after four dropped passes in a slow start against Virginia so you are likely correct, now we don’t. Confidence is one of the things coaches can destroy or create.

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1 hour ago, Leathernecks said:

We'll see how it plays out today.  You're obviously a Lagow fan, and that's perfectly fine.  We'll see what the coaches and players can get done today.  Hopefully both QBs play well and it is a debate we can continue to have.

Just like the arm advantage. But the way we started everyone may be benched if they are treated like the QB. Nightmare start. 

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29 minutes ago, Leathernecks said:

That was the most demoralizing start I've ever seen.  Nothing like being down 28-0 in the 1st quarter.

Neither QB showed a lot today.

I will say that Ramsey had ample opportunity and still was the second leading passer on the team. That says it all. Lagow played one quarter and one TD. Ramsey three quarters and one TD. Also, their percentage is similar. So all you accomplish by changing the qb is decrease production? Really? That is our goal? One of the most potent offenses in college football with great receivers and a cannon arm qb has been made insignificant. No other coaching staff in the country could have mismanaged this team worse. If this continues they might only win one more game and the coaches will lose the team. Unbelievable......again.

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9 minutes ago, Payday said:

I will say that Ramsey had ample opportunity and still was the second leading passer on the team. That says it all. Lagow played one quarter. 

I don't think the number you referenced says it all...at all.

7-15 for 97 yards, QBR of 26.6 for Lagow.  54 of those yards were on one pass (it was a really nice pass, but most yards were after the catch) and -10 rushing yards on one sack...in other words, 15 of his 16 passing plays went for a combined total of 33 yards.

8-17 for 78 yards, QBR of 44.5 for Ramsey (+53 rushing yards)

Lagow played all but the last 2 possessions of the first half.  Ramsey's first possession was with 6:16 left in the 2nd quarter, after two straight 3 and outs for Lagow (both in 2nd quarter, 1 total yard). Of Lagow's 6 possessions, he had one end in a turnover (not his fault), three 3 and outs, one touchdown that was basically all on one play, and one possession that was 6 plays with a punt.  That's absolutely terrible for someone who is supposed to have such a good arm.  Not to mention the fact that we've basically given up even trying to have a running game when he plays.

I'm not even really trying to stand up for Ramsey because he didn't play great either, but Lagow has been awful.

Here's another stat.  Since halftime of the OSU game, Lagow is 34-65 for 383 yards with 1 TD, 2 interceptions, and 1 lost fumble.  And, 71 of those yards and the TD were when Georgia Southern decided to not cover Ian Thomas running down the middle of the field and he went beast mode and carried defenders 10 yards into the endzone.

Also, who is the conservative QB in the title of this thread?  What is it you've seen in Lagow that makes you think he should be the full time QB?  I ask in seriousness because I'm split between the two.

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8 hours ago, Leathernecks said:

I don't think the number you referenced says it all...at all.

7-15 for 97 yards, QBR of 26.6 for Lagow.  54 of those yards were on one pass (it was a really nice pass, but most yards were after the catch) and -10 rushing yards on one sack...in other words, 15 of his 16 passing plays went for a combined total of 33 yards.

8-17 for 78 yards, QBR of 44.5 for Ramsey (+53 rushing yards)

Lagow played all but the last 2 possessions of the first half.  Ramsey's first possession was with 6:16 left in the 2nd quarter, after two straight 3 and outs for Lagow (both in 2nd quarter, 1 total yard). Of Lagow's 6 possessions, he had one end in a turnover (not his fault), three 3 and outs, one touchdown that was basically all on one play, and one possession that was 6 plays with a punt.  That's absolutely terrible for someone who is supposed to have such a good arm.  Not to mention the fact that we've basically given up even trying to have a running game when he plays.

I'm not even really trying to stand up for Ramsey because he didn't play great either, but Lagow has been awful.

Here's another stat.  Since halftime of the OSU game, Lagow is 34-65 for 383 yards with 1 TD, 2 interceptions, and 1 lost fumble.  And, 71 of those yards and the TD were when Georgia Southern decided to not cover Ian Thomas running down the middle of the field and he went beast mode and carried defenders 10 yards into the endzone.

Also, who is the conservative QB in the title of this thread?  What is it you've seen in Lagow that makes you think he should be the full time QB?  I ask in seriousness because I'm split between the two.

I think we should go with Ramsey. We will lose all but one game, but at least the debate over qb will be over. No arm, no real speed, no offense, no threat, but he is the answer to our offense. Lol, I can’t believe someone defends him. He is just too young and not yet ready but people have been heralding him and don’t like to admit what they see. Lagow gives you the ability to strike on any play as opposed to nickel and dime average. We are not a good enough team to rely on nickel and dime. And here is a factor you missed, Lagow played against Ohio and Penn while Ramsey played most of his snaps against Georgia Southerm, Last year’s two win Virginia, and penn. And Lagow has been playing against the first half where players are up and ready while Remsey has come in when the game is under control or not a real threat like Virginia. And espn QBR rating had Ramsey at 93 and Lagow at 101. You have to look at the adjusted ratings to get the whole picture.

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Ramsey has no real speed?  No, Lagow has no speed at all.  He's a stiff in the pocket.  Ramsey's not Michael Vick back there, but his speed can pose a threat to defenses.  Not really sure how somebody can't see that.  And you say I don't like to admit what I see, but you're 100% behind the guy who has been completing barely over 50% of his passes, turns the ball over way too much, and does nothing to help the run game.  But at least he's got a strong arm so he can make a good throw once a game.  I bet you love Jay Cutler too.

I clearly broke down Lagow's numbers after his good first half against OSU, so there was only one half against OSU in there (and the rest were against the same teams Ramsey played against), and you still say I missed it.  And, that 101 and 93 you referenced is not the adjusted ratings that take into account more things than just pure throwing stats.  You referenced the passer rating which takes into account nothing besides pure passing stats.  Doesn't account for rushing, sacks, fumbles, drops, opponents, etc.  I used Raw QBR which is similar to Adjusted QBR, but doesn't account for defense.  They both played against the same team, so when comparing the two QBs, using Raw vs. Adjusted QBR doesn't really matter for one game.  Taking the whole season into account, Ramsey's Adjusted QBR (which takes into account defesne...yes, I know. Not the same as actually playing against a better defense, but its the best we've got) is 67.8 compared to 58.6 for Lagow.

If Virginia was such a non threat, why did Lagow have 5 possessions, gaining a total of 51 yards with an interception and no points?  Then Ramsey comes in and plays really well, but hey, let's not count that because Virginia is such a non threat.  Ramsey generated more yards (59) on his first possession than Lagow did in 5 possession.  We were down 3-0 almost halfway through the 2nd quarter when Ramsey came in, and from that point on, we put up 27 points on offense, and had a turnover on downs inside the UVA 5.  Lagow was garbage against that non threat of a team.  That Virginia team you talk about is also 3-1 after they dismantled Boise State last week.  But they only won 2 games last year?  Let's go with that number because last year's record is clearly more important to how good a team is this year than this year's record.

And, I haven't said we should exclusively go to Ramsey at QB.  Neither one is consistent enough to win the job yet.  I still think Lagow has enough potential that he should start, hoping he can get it figured out and Ramsey should come in later, but I think Ramsey is starting to close that gap.

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1 hour ago, Leathernecks said:

Ramsey has no real speed?  No, Lagow has no speed at all.  He's a stiff in the pocket.  Ramsey's not Michael Vick back there, but his speed can pose a threat to defenses.  Not really sure how somebody can't see that.  And you say I don't like to admit what I see, but you're 100% behind the guy who has been completing barely over 50% of his passes, turns the ball over way too much, and does nothing to help the run game.  But at least he's got a strong arm so he can make a good throw once a game.  I bet you love Jay Cutler too.

I clearly broke down Lagow's numbers after his good first half against OSU, so there was only one half against OSU in there (and the rest were against the same teams Ramsey played against), and you still say I missed it.  And, that 101 and 93 you referenced is not the adjusted ratings that take into account more things than just pure throwing stats.  You referenced the passer rating which takes into account nothing besides pure passing stats.  Doesn't account for rushing, sacks, fumbles, drops, opponents, etc.  I used Raw QBR which is similar to Adjusted QBR, but doesn't account for defense.  They both played against the same team, so when comparing the two QBs, using Raw vs. Adjusted QBR doesn't really matter for one game.  Taking the whole season into account, Ramsey's Adjusted QBR (which takes into account defesne...yes, I know. Not the same as actually playing against a better defense, but its the best we've got) is 67.8 compared to 58.6 for Lagow.

If Virginia was such a non threat, why did Lagow have 5 possessions, gaining a total of 51 yards with an interception and no points?  Then Ramsey comes in and plays really well, but hey, let's not count that because Virginia is such a non threat.  Ramsey generated more yards (59) on his first possession than Lagow did in 5 possession.  We were down 3-0 almost halfway through the 2nd quarter when Ramsey came in, and from that point on, we put up 27 points on offense, and had a turnover on downs inside the UVA 5.  Lagow was garbage against that non threat of a team.  That Virginia team you talk about is also 3-1 after they dismantled Boise State last week.  But they only won 2 games last year?  Let's go with that number because last year's record is clearly more important to how good a team is this year than this year's record.

And, I haven't said we should exclusively go to Ramsey at QB.  Neither one is consistent enough to win the job yet.  I still think Lagow has enough potential that he should start, hoping he can get it figured out and Ramsey should come in later, but I think Ramsey is starting to close that gap.

Lol, we will send your analysis to espn and urban Meyers so you can maybe have a clinic and teach them how not to compare apples to apples. Different situations allow different results. He was stellar against Penn and generated next to nothing. But, at least the fans got to see how easy it is to knock down a pass from a 5’11” guy. Look, I hope they start Ramsey against Michigan and, if he is still able to walk, MState. Let it all hang out. I am telling you that if we go that route we will win one more game and it is this week. And with that I am done. Hell, it’s not like the program is used to winning, nobwonder fans have no idea what to look for or what it takes. I’m not sure we would not be better named “cannibals”

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On ‎9‎/‎30‎/‎2017 at 11:29 AM, Payday said:

two qb doesn’t work. All it does is take touches away from both and if you are any good the loss of touches shows up later in the year. As for not having anyone good enough to be a lock starter, Urban and everyone on tv who has played the game at a high level seemed to think that we did but we benched him after four dropped passes in a slow start against Virginia so you are likely correct, now we don’t. Confidence is one of the things coaches can destroy or create.

Lagow got benched because of his accuracy or lack of it.  He is way off on is passes and has no touch on the short passes.  It is like in baseball when everyone is enamoured with a pitcher who throws a 100 miles an hour but can't throw strikes.  I will take a pitcher who throws 90 and has great location.

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2 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Lagow got benched because of his accuracy or lack of it.  He is way off on is passes and has no touch on the short passes.  It is like in baseball when everyone is enamoured with a pitcher who throws a 100 miles an hour but can't throw strikes.  I will take a pitcher who throws 90 and has great location.

You got it on that pass to the sideline that should have been a pick six. Anything over ten yards is noodle time. 

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1 minute ago, Payday said:

You got it on that pass to the sideline that should have been a pick six. Anything over ten yards is noodle time. 

Not saying Ramsey is great but Lagow is horrible and should have never been given the starting job.  Lagow has not touch on the ball and tries to throw every pass 100 miles an hour.

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9 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Not saying Ramsey is great but Lagow is horrible and should have never been given the starting job.  Lagow has not touch on the ball and tries to throw every pass 100 miles an hour.

And he very rarely works through his progressions, so everybody knows where the 100 mph fastball is going to be.

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21 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Not saying Ramsey is great but Lagow is horrible and should have never been given the starting job.  Lagow has not touch on the ball and tries to throw every pass 100 miles an hour.

 

6 minutes ago, Leathernecks said:

And he very rarely works through his progressions, so everybody knows where the 100 mph fastball is going to be.

They are always looking for coaches. Lol. Like I said, let Ramsey have the whole show the rest of the way, I’m all for it. We will win one game and you two will have a chance to put your application in for the position of all knowing no balls guru coach. Lol. It is remarkable how little some fans actually know about football and how destructive they can be to a team and environment around a team. I am scratching my head trying to figure out how any of us Hoosier fans could claim such expertise whe we watch a perennial loser program. That in and of itself suggest we are all wrong and the opposite actions should be taken by anyone who reads this sadness, mine included. I suspect Lagow will be fine with or without football and he may one day surprise some. 

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4 hours ago, Payday said:

 

They are always looking for coaches. Lol. Like I said, let Ramsey have the whole show the rest of the way, I’m all for it. We will win one game and you two will have a chance to put your application in for the position of all knowing no balls guru coach. Lol. It is remarkable how little some fans actually know about football and how destructive they can be to a team and environment around a team. I am scratching my head trying to figure out how any of us Hoosier fans could claim such expertise whe we watch a perennial loser program. That in and of itself suggest we are all wrong and the opposite actions should be taken by anyone who reads this sadness, mine included. I suspect Lagow will be fine with or without football and he may one day surprise some. 

If Lagow is the QB we will probably only win one or two games so why not put the young guy in and get him ready for next year.

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3 hours ago, IU Scott said:

If Lagow is the QB we will probably only win one or two games so why not put the young guy in and get him ready for next year.

 He won’t see the field next year. Tronti will take over. That inability to judge talent, by itself, should preclude you posting. 

 

We don't call names here, we are better than that. I edited this for you. The debate is a good topic, with class.---Indykev

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Folks, all these kids who make it to this level have already accomplished more than 95% of all athletes and more than any of us. If either QB quit playing tomorrow they would likely land a d1 opportunity. Us bantering will not change their lives or what they do. Ramsey should start from here out, that appears what they want, and then everyone gets to see the results. Who knows. 

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14 hours ago, Payday said:

 He won’t see the field next year. Tronti will take over. That inability to judge talent, by itself, should preclude you posting. 

 

We don't call names here, we are better than that. I edited this for you. The debate is a good topic, with class.---Indykev

I guess I missed this post before it got edited but why can't some people take when others disagree with their viewpoints.  What I have said about Lagow is correct and just look at the film and you would see it.  He is not an accurate passer who misses the receivers by a few feet.  He does not follow through on his throws which leads them to float over the WR's head.  He has not touch on the short passes and think he has to throw it a hour miles an hour.

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