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Morgan Ellison Suspended Indefinitely


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28 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Yep surely no guilty person has ever said they were innocent. 

Would be  pretty easy to verify the veracity of his statement and defense by checking it out with any good legal team.
I do not have those connections to check it out, however, I have not seen anyone blow holes in it as yet, either.
Its a bold statement of innocence with details as well, hard to still call him a criminal without more context.
Innocent til proven guilty, unless its SA and you are an athlete.

My question to you is, do you believe Ellison committed these crimes?

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1 hour ago, PoHoosier said:

Would be  pretty easy to verify the veracity of his statement and defense by checking it out with any good legal team.
I do not have those connections to check it out, however, I have not seen anyone blow holes in it as yet, either.
Its a bold statement of innocence with details as well, hard to still call him a criminal without more context.
Innocent til proven guilty, unless its SA and you are an athlete.

My question to you is, do you believe Ellison committed these crimes?

I would like to think he is innocent.  

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6 hours ago, rico said:

I would like to think he is innocent.  

I would like to think so too.
I don't want to paint him guilty, or innocent for that matter until more is known.
Please correct me if I am wrong, but there has been no conviction?
Until then, I cannot paint him guilty.  Is he innocent? Not sure, but I cannot call him guilty at this point.

Hopefully, everyone involved is able to recover and get their lives back together after this.

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Just now, PoHoosier said:

I would like to think so too.
I don't want to paint him guilty, or innocent for that matter until more is known.
Please correct me if I am wrong, but there has been no conviction?
Until then, I cannot paint him guilty.  Is he innocent? Not sure, but I cannot call him guilty at this point.

Hopefully, everyone involved is able to recover and get their lives back together after this.

To my knowledge there was never an arrest made to begin with.  At some point in time these athletes need to quit putting themselves in these kind of positions.  I was young once, I know how it is.  Hormones and what not.......but they are easy targets for false accusations.  But there are quite a few that are the real deal.  

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12 minutes ago, rico said:

To my knowledge there was never an arrest made to begin with.  At some point in time these athletes need to quit putting themselves in these kind of positions.  I was young once, I know how it is.  Hormones and what not.......but they are easy targets for false accusations.  But there are quite a few that are the real deal.  

Totally agree, we see crimes or accusations in the news at least weekly with an athlete.  Some are crimes, some are accusations.  It sucks all the way around.
Cannot and should not be ignored, I say it sucks because, if it did happen, the victim's life is irrevocably changed.  The criminal's life , I say without sympathy, be changed - possibly destroyed.  If it didn't happen, the life of the accused is possibly destroyed.

I remember a false accusation down the street from where I grew up.  The 50 some year old man took his life as a result, real or not, he could not live life with the stigma.

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4 minutes ago, PoHoosier said:

Totally agree, we see crimes or accusations in the news at least weekly with an athlete.  Some are crimes, some are accusations.  It sucks all the way around.
Cannot and should not be ignored, I say it sucks because, if it did happen, the victim's life is irrevocably changed.  The criminal's life , I say without sympathy, be changed - possibly destroyed.  If it didn't happen, the life of the accused is possibly destroyed.

I remember a false accusation down the street from where I grew up.  The 50 some year old man took his life as a result, real or not, he could not live life with the stigma.

Yep, the innocent are the ones that pay.  

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36 minutes ago, rico said:

To my knowledge there was never an arrest made to begin with.  At some point in time these athletes need to quit putting themselves in these kind of positions.  I was young once, I know how it is.  Hormones and what not.......but they are easy targets for false accusations.  But there are quite a few that are the real deal.  

I will tell you that in my opinion the university is about to pay out a lot of money to the kid. I have hated this new millennial effort at immediate and twitter type justice and, as I will keep saying, no university or non law enforcement agency has the responsibility or right to punish someone when there is a legal avenue established by the laws of the country and or local/state. If society allows this it is no different than shiri law and you might as well revert back to pitch fork torch justice. I recognize it is tough for the school, puts it in a difficult position to not follow the social “wave” of the day, but we have laws on the books and innocent until proven guilty. At least we used to. There is a logical and clear way to try and minimize this type situation happening, make sure you are recruiting top quality kids. There will still be occasional situations, but those you endure.

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This is not a new phenomenon. I helped a friend through something similar to this in 1985. In his case the accuser finally admitted that the incident in question had happened at another fraternity house the night before and she didn’t know exactly who it was.  The process though was unbelievable. This girl just went to the whatever affairs office and said she had been assaulted (which she had) and then named my buddy during the questioning.  His life was turned upside down, there was no way he could have done what he was accused of but the facts didn’t matter.  He was looking at being expelled from IU and if she hadn’t had a last minute guilty conscience he would have been. 

There was never any law enforcement presence or a time when he could have a lawyer.  It was all just nice and friendly talking to this bureaucrat in her office trying to help this poor girl out.  Then, WHAM, he was found guilty and was looking at almost immediate expulsion with no recourse.

The next year he transferred to Missou.

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8 hours ago, PoHoosier said:

Would be  pretty easy to verify the veracity of his statement and defense by checking it out with any good legal team.
I do not have those connections to check it out, however, I have not seen anyone blow holes in it as yet, either.
Its a bold statement of innocence with details as well, hard to still call him a criminal without more context.
Innocent til proven guilty, unless its SA and you are an athlete.

My question to you is, do you believe Ellison committed these crimes?

IU had an army of Lawyers who looked at these texts and said there was nothing of substance. Not to mention an independent review panel concluded that he did do these things. 

So yes I do believe he committed these crimes. And to in spite all of the above facts still believe firmly that he was falsely accused simply shows unbelievable bias on the subject. 

In a world where Athletes get away with things left and right it is absurd to think that one got railroaded on the basis of a simple accusation. 

Prisons are full of people that claim to be innocent. Does that mean that prisons are full of innocent people. No, it means that people are naturally unable to taking responsibility for their actions. 

There is no grand conspiracy against men and most assuredly not against men good at sports. Does that mean Ellison is guilty no, but the preponderance of evidence points to he is. And no false narratives about false accusations are going to change that. 

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Thanks for the context.

Also, slow down with responding to beliefs and words I did not say.  I wanted to know more.  There wasn't a conviction so something didn't wash with me.  IU would likely not make the mistake of opening themselves up to a tremendous lawsuit by dismissing him wrongfully.  I asked for context, you delivered.  Therefore, you got a thanks from me.  As far as my 'SA - guilty til proven innocent remark', that was based on personal history as detailed above and in this case, apparently baseless.

I do not believe everyone in prison exclaiming innocence are innocent.  I know people are naturally bent to stray from acceptance of responsibility of bad behaviors.  Perceived bias of this case on your part comes from ignorance of legal findings of this case on my part.  I did not have the information you had. I do not believe there is a grand conspiracy against men or men that are good at sports.  I do not believe Ellison got railroaded due to 'a simple accusation'.

Rico has it right, the innocent suffer, in this case, it likely wasn't Ellison.

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3 hours ago, Brass Cannon said:

IU had an army of Lawyers who looked at these texts and said there was nothing of substance. Not to mention an independent review panel concluded that he did do these things. 

So yes I do believe he committed these crimes. And to in spite all of the above facts still believe firmly that he was falsely accused simply shows unbelievable bias on the subject. 

In a world where Athletes get away with things left and right it is absurd to think that one got railroaded on the basis of a simple accusation. 

Prisons are full of people that claim to be innocent. Does that mean that prisons are full of innocent people. No, it means that people are naturally unable to taking responsibility for their actions. 

There is no grand conspiracy against men and most assuredly not against men good at sports. Does that mean Ellison is guilty no, but the preponderance of evidence points to he is. And no false narratives about false accusations are going to change that. 

You’re joking right? If you don’t think that false accusations have ruined lives because society demands women are to be automatically believed and men are “guilty until proven innocent” you’ve been living under a rock the last decade. 

I’m not saying I believe Ellison is innocent but he’s making damn sure we know he thinks he is. We’ll likely never know the truth and it really doesn’t matter for our purposes but I hope he can move on with his life

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51 minutes ago, hoosier8760 said:

You’re joking right? If you don’t think that false accusations have ruined lives because society demands women are to be automatically believed and men are “guilty until proven innocent” you’ve been living under a rock the last decade. 

I’m not saying I believe Ellison is innocent but he’s making damn sure we know he thinks he is. We’ll likely never know the truth and it really doesn’t matter for our purposes but I hope he can move on with his life

I never said false accusations dont exist. But they are a tiny fraction of reported rapes. And an even smaller of all rapes. To implicitly believe these accusations are false is just rape culture being effective. 

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Difficult situation.  For sure.  Who to believe ?   I feel IU used due diligence. At least compared to other schools in similar situations.  Yet,  Morgan's lawyers feel IU rushed.  Where and who to come down, on the side of ?

I just have to think back to the Duke Lacrosse fiasco.  Coaches, and other school personnel lost jobs, long before the actual facts came out.  And resulted in the suicide of one investigator years after the fact.

I am glad that Morgan has decided to continue to proceed to get his degree.  For me, that may be the only positive, for now, to come out of this whole thing. 

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1 hour ago, Brass Cannon said:

I never said false accusations dont exist. But they are a tiny fraction of reported rapes. And an even smaller of all rapes. To implicitly believe these accusations are false is just rape culture being effective. 

You got data to back up all that?  

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4 hours ago, Brass Cannon said:

I never said false accusations dont exist. But they are a tiny fraction of reported rapes. And an even smaller of all rapes. To implicitly believe these accusations are false is just rape culture being effective. 

It’s far from a “tiny” fraction. Most studies estimate as much as 10% of rape accusations are proven to be false. That’s just those that are proven. Many more go unreported. While it is rare it happens all the time. 

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6 minutes ago, Hoosier82 said:

It’s far from a “tiny” fraction. Most studies estimate as much as 10% of rape accusations are proven to be false. That’s just those that are proven. Many more go unreported. While it is rare it happens all the time. 

Most people would consider 1/10 a tiny percentage. And even so that’s one estimate. 2-10 is the range. And that’s reported rape.  For every reported rape there are 2 that weren’t give or take. So even if it is 10 percent. For every falsely accused man there are 27 rape victims. And that’s with the the highest estimate of false rape accusations. 

So not exactly sure how it makes any sense whatsoever to implicitly believe he was falsely accused. 

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