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Locking down the state


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Last year Archie was able to bring in the top 3 in state players and this year we should get 3 of the top 5 and according to the Indy Star in June those 3 were ranked 1,2,3. This is what has been missing for so long. We all know as fans that getting the top in state talent is paramount but for some reason other coaches have not been able to accomplish what Archie and staff has. It is a very very good time to be a HOOSIER!!!! These kids know that as well!

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I've got to admit that I was hesitant and apprehensive about how this whole lock the state down thing would play out. It kind of reeked of self indulgence and would only be a success to me if we landed the very top guys over multiple classes. It felt like it had a decent chance of being yet another embarrassment (to be fair it definitely had a good chance of working too). I've been burned and jaded too many times over my 30+ years to get my hopes up.

Well, bizarrely enough the Franklin commit is the one that actually shot the Indiana pride back into my veins. Landing 1, 3, 4, and then (probably) 1,2, and 5 with three 5 stars to top it off...wow. I've got to give credit where it's due. 

If we can make an elite 8 run in the next two seasons then it'll have gone down damn near perfectly. The one constant with Archie is that you'll get what you're expecting to get out of his teams and with this roster and next years I would consider us favorites to make that run happen.

Cheers guys. Here's to hoping that TJD and/or Keion commit before HH.

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, BGleas said:

I think this is a huge thing, and I said it when Archie was hired, but the biggest difference is IU finally has a 'basketball guy' as a coach again. Forget the development, X's and O's, etc., those things are critically important of course, but in terms of recruiting IMO what we're seeing is a basketball guy doing his thing. Archie has lived and breathed basketball his entire life. He grew up in the gym with his father and brother. He's spent his entire life with players and coaches of all types and levels.

While there is certainly a level of ego that comes with getting to this level of your profession, Archie is at home in the gym. He can relate and talk to elite players, grinders, high school coaches, AAU coaches and parents the way someone in basketball would. He knows and understands the language, how the different players talk, act, etc. He's one of them, not an outsider trying to sell something. 

I don't necessarily mean this as a dig on Crean, or even Mike Davis, but Archie isn't selling, he's being himself and he's doing it where he thrives, around the game and in the gym. I think that really resonates, and maybe even more in a place like Indiana. 

Great post BGleas! Finally the basketball god (if there is) smiled at us. For some time, I thought IU basketball was cursed. 

As you pinpointed, Archie's biggest asset is he doesn't have to act, pretend, or self-advertise. Just by being himself, true to people and to the game, he can attract good people that trust and support him. 

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4 hours ago, BGleas said:

I think this is a huge thing, and I said it when Archie was hired, but the biggest difference is IU finally has a 'basketball guy' as a coach again. Forget the development, X's and O's, etc., those things are critically important of course, but in terms of recruiting IMO what we're seeing is a basketball guy doing his thing. Archie has lived and breathed basketball his entire life. He grew up in the gym with his father and brother. He's spent his entire life with players and coaches of all types and levels.

While there is certainly a level of ego that comes with getting to this level of your profession, Archie is at home in the gym. He can relate and talk to elite players, grinders, high school coaches, AAU coaches and parents the way someone in basketball would. He knows and understands the language, how the different players talk, act, etc. He's one of them, not an outsider trying to sell something. 

I don't necessarily mean this as a dig on Crean, or even Mike Davis, but Archie isn't selling, he's being himself and he's doing it where he thrives, around the game and in the gym. I think that really resonates, and maybe even more in a place like Indiana. 

 

I assumed Mike Davis was a ball player himself, but maybe not...what was his background in his playing days if he had any?

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59 minutes ago, ArchieBall13 said:

I assumed Mike Davis was a ball player himself, but maybe not...what was his background in his playing days if he had any?

Oh yeah, he was a ball player.  Was a Mr. Basketball from Alabama.  He also went to school at 'Bama.  IIRC he also was drafted by the NBA.

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2 hours ago, ArchieBall13 said:

I assumed Mike Davis was a ball player himself, but maybe not...what was his background in his playing days if he had any?

Davis was absolutely a player. I didn't mean he wasn't a player, I just meant that he seemed to operate from a place of trying to prove something, instead of being himself. Same with Crean, but for different reasons. They both seemed to operate from a place of trying to prove they belonged, as opposed to Archie who just knows he belongs. 

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23 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Davis was absolutely a player. I didn't mean he wasn't a player, I just meant that he seemed to operate from a place of trying to prove something, instead of being himself. Same with Crean, but for different reasons. They both seemed to operate from a place of trying to prove they belonged, as opposed to Archie who just knows he belongs. 

From day one Archie struck me as the kind of guy who is confident that he is going to get what/who he wants and if he doesnt he will maximize the potential of what he gets.

I expected it to take a couple years to really get going.  Good thing we didn't have to wait.

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23 hours ago, rico said:

Just my opinion, but once Bob lost Crews and Wright......things went awry.

I agree it did after Wright left for Miani of Ohio.

Post -Joby: Eventually seeing the first 4 year class of the Knight years to not win a B1G title pretty much says it all. 

Almost every IU fan loved the fully rebuilt core that came together in the immediate years after the last championship on into the early 90's.

Not only did Indiana land the most hyped Indiana  high school recruit ever, but also the B1G's eventual all-time leading scorer, among several other revered in-state players. As well as what I've always felt were the 2nd and 3rd best IU teams to not win an NC. 

That's why I perceive a lesser extent of in-state recruiting setback after Crews took his HC gig at E=ville in the mid-80s. 

Archie is doing a lot to restore my confidence of the draw Indiana can still have on in-state players of the highest caliber. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by jblaz13
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I like your entire comment and all is valid.

I do think the general time period after Crews left did see some bad luck with  both landing and retaining several highly regarded in-state kids. 

Plus there were a couple of players I would consider to be busts based on the hype in proportion to their overall bodies of work through their respective final seasons at IU .  

The thing that bugs me most is when I think of kids like Edwards and Wilkerson; Also Lyndon Jones, Steve Hart, and Michael Lewis, the latter 3 of which I really liked.I came away with an overall feeling of disappointment all things considered equal. It  certainly didn't help perception , and Michigan State became that shiny new toy the rest of the B1G and NCAA wanted to nudge Indiana off the top.

Kind of underscores the winds Davis was sailing into when he took over after Knight. By then enough years had passed for us to be shocked about the NC game run. Really if you look at the part Jeffries and Coverdale played, it is kind of a bummer since it looks like someone on the staff had put their finger on the problem  in Knight's final seasons , in hindsight.

Don't get me started on Sampson. He had it made, and blew it with his calls and his culture.Gordon was the peak and a very sharp one in that tenure. Crean got the snowball rolling uphill, then never really pushed it over the top when he had a chance. It rolled back and now that makes what Archie has done so soon look so good right now. Add in the fact that Archie is now taking regional kids from the backyards of some pretty notable programs ,especially in the B1G,  and we have a great start to what I hope becomes a trend, then later on a longterm regularity. 

I recall several years where it was the kids ranked just below who went to Purdue that panned out better during that period in a few instances. That should be encouraging even if someone else is picking off the top 1 or 2 kids until Archie wins big. If he does soon I won't be too worried about the momentum guys like Beilein and Holtmann are building in the region. Once Louisville is in the clear again I see Chris Mack picking up some real steam. It will get interesting. After banners , my next wishes are for long term extensions for Painter and Underwood. Lol 

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23 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

Why not? Parents in the 90's vs today? Apples and oatmeal. Not even close. Helicopter world. Worked for Knight back in the day...around 95 or so...the game changed.

Agreed. Alot of parents are raising kids up to be soft. Not purposefully, they just dont know any better.  

And I think game changing and society changing made it impossible for a stubborn old hardass like Knight to continue to succeed.  

 

 

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8 hours ago, Seeking6 said:

Why not? Parents in the 90's vs today? Apples and oatmeal. Not even close. Helicopter world. Worked for Knight back in the day...around 95 or so...the game changed. 

JMO, but I don't think parents changing hurt Knight.  I am just a guy that thinks/feels that when Bob's "good" assistants left he didn't respond well.

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13 minutes ago, rico said:

JMO, but I don't think parents changing hurt Knight.  I am just a guy that thinks/feels that when Bob's "good" assistants left he didn't respond well.

Agree to a certain point....those assistants were a key part....but I still think Knight's way of doing things didn't sit well with the increasing number of parents who coddled their kids. 

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1 hour ago, rico said:

JMO, but I don't think parents changing hurt Knight.  I am just a guy that thinks/feels that when Bob's "good" assistants left he didn't respond well.

I agree a lot...but don’t kid yourself on the societal changes....parents, AAU culture...media. Knight that could sit in front of a parent in a rough neighborhood and tell them I’ll keep your son on the straight and narrow..get him a degree and good job..and oh compete for NCs was not the same Knight by that time nor a message that resignated with parents, players, and by the late 90s 2000s handilers. I wish it didn’t end the way it did but it was inevitable and yes when he lost the assistants that made it almost impossible for his brand to succeed.

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