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How much can a player truly improve their shooting?


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@StLHoosier

 

He just doesn't place much value in three pointing shooting. I tallied up his dayton years and he's smack dab in the middle in attempts averaging 150th and he shot it at a decent % of 90th. He wants balance and that's just something I'm going to have to get used to. We've got a good one here thats for sure. A great one? There's a lot of time for us to figure that out. I'm playing the long game here. He just needs to prove to me that his system can produce a style that can win a title and I'm not sold on that yet. I need to see how we play for a few years before I can say that for sure. I'm observing here and not passing judgement either. It's going to be a fun ride. You guys wanted consistency and his system is built for that.

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You guys are asking the wrong questions anyway. It's not necessarily about the shooting % or if there is room for improvement. It's about the system you run, the looks you're getting, the volume you're putting up, and the tempo you play at. Let me give you a small example. Eric Gordon's 3pt% over the past few years...39, 45, 38, 37, and 36. Steady decline right? Not at all. Let's look at volume. 6.5, 8, 9, 10, and 14 shots per game. Next lets check out TS% .54, .544, .565, .557, . 578. Win shares of course rose as well. 

Will our guys improve? Absolutely, but that means nothing at all because your opponents should be improving at close to the same rate that you are so that's why it's imperative to start with a high base. 

That's enough or now. I better not get myself started 🙂

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29 minutes ago, ADegenerate said:

@StLHoosier

 

He just doesn't place much value in three pointing shooting. I tallied up his dayton years and he's smack dab in the middle in attempts averaging 150th and he shot it at a decent % of 90th. He wants balance and that's just something I'm going to have to get used to. We've got a good one here thats for sure. A great one? There's a lot of time for us to figure that out. I'm playing the long game here. He just needs to prove to me that his system can produce a style that can win a title and I'm not sold on that yet. I need to see how we play for a few years before I can say that for sure. I'm observing here and not passing judgement either. It's going to be a fun ride. You guys wanted consistency and his system is built for that.

I think that’s the beauty of his offense.  I grew tired of living and dying by the three ball during Crean’s tenure, and I’m glad I know longer have to watch the three man weave at the top of the key.  With CAM’s offense last year, we got good looks from the outside due to ball movement.  We just didn’t have anyone who could knock on open shots last year, but the looks were there.  His offensive style coupled with his focus on defense is a very sustainable model, and I think he will have us competitive/contending year in and year out.  In regards to his recruiting, I think you’re seeing him go after guys that fit his style, and even though one maybe ranked lower than another, he’s content on accepting the commitment from anyone he’s offered.  At Dayton, I’m sure he tried this, but probably couldn’t fill his roster out exactly how he would’ve liked (guessing).

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12 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

I hate myself for the example I'm getting ready to use but our friends across the Ohio River have never had a dead eye shooter.....and they've been to 4 Final 4's under PayPal. 

Nah, they won that title because Lamb. He shot it at like 47% too. I'm convinced you absolutely have to have a 45% that can get you 13 a game. Mark my words here...UK will will the title again and Herro will hit around 43%

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13 minutes ago, ADegenerate said:

Nah, they won that title because Lamb. He shot it at like 47% too. I'm convinced you absolutely have to have a 45% that can get you 13 a game. Mark my words here...UK will will the title again and Herro will hit around 43%

So one shooter in 9 years. 4 Final 4's. I think you made my point. We love our shooters here in Hoosierville...but it isn't a necessity. 

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1 minute ago, StLHoosier said:

I think that’s the beauty of his offense.  I grew tired of living and dying by the three ball during Crean’s tenure, and I’m glad I know longer have to watch the three man weave at the top of the key.  With CAM’s offense last year, we got good looks from the outside due to ball movement.  We just didn’t have anyone who could knock on open shots last year, but the looks were there.  His offensive style coupled with his focus on defense is a very sustainable model, and I think he will have us competitive/contending year in and year out.  In regards to his recruiting, I think you’re seeing him go after guys that fit his style, and even though one maybe ranked lower than another, he’s content on accepting the commitment from anyone he’s offered.  At Dayton, I’m sure he tried this, but probably couldn’t fill his roster out exactly how he would’ve liked (guessing).

You're absolutely correct here and I have a ton of respect for Archie and what he's doing. He's managed his coaching career as well as you possibly can. His offensive philosophy his extremely balanced and isn't prone to volatile swings. His defensive philosophy is effective enough to earn you wins when you're have a terrible night shooting the ball, will keep you in games vs teams better than, and makes it tough for teams worse than you to win. His recruiting strategy and squad building has given him the players to continue this model with the added benefit of higher talent. He's working on a 9/10 at that. He is even managing the scheduling at an optimal level.

He'll absolutely crush it here. The only question to ask is if that balanced approach can win a title and we'll have a few years to figure that out. I'm unconvinced but open minded. I certainly wouldn't bet against the guy that's for sure but something about the system doesn't excite me yet. I'm not exactly sure why either? 

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7 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

So one shooter in 9 years. 4 Final 4's. I think you made my point. We love our shooters here in Hoosierville...but it isn't a necessity. 

Huh? The first final four lamb was at 49% and Darius was at 44%. The title had lamb at 47% and Wiltjer at 43%. The third FF was a trash team that couldn't shoot and shouldn't have been there. The last final four had Ulis at 43% and also that dude on the suns who dropped 70 in a game named Devon Booker so actually they kinda did have shooters.

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Just now, ADegenerate said:

Huh? The first final four lamb was at 49% and Darius was at 44%. The title had lamb at 47% and Wiltjer at 43%. The third FF was a trash team that couldn't shoot and shouldn't have been there. The last final four had Ulis at 43% and also that dude on the suns who dropped 70 in a game named Devon Booker so actually they kinda did have shooters.

You didn't mention all the other shooters in your first post. Apologize in advance. That google search must be working overtime. My point remains the same. Kentucky has been to 4 F4's without what i would call Jordy Hulls type of dead eye shooters. 

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12 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

You didn't mention all the other shooters in your first post. Apologize in advance. That google search must be working overtime. My point remains the same. Kentucky has been to 4 F4's without what i would call Jordy Hulls type of dead eye shooters. 

You're damn right it's working overtime! I've been studying medical language for the past 8 hours and I'll take any distraction that I can get at this point!

Other than Lamb you mean. ;)

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@Seeking6 made a pretty good point that Bielfeldt developed into a pretty knockdown shooter in college.  At the same time, he was a big man that only attempted 64 threes during his lone season at IU.  When I think of knockdown shooters, I’m thinking of guys like Hulls, Roth, Zeisloft, Yogi, and Blackmon.  Those are the type of shooters I want at IU, and I’m assuming that all those guys came in to IU as great shooters (although Seeking6 said Yogi didn’t?)  

At the same time, I don’t think high school shooting percentages are perfect indicators of how a player will shoot in college.  It’s my impression that very few high school players shoot over 40% from three, no matter how good they are — am I wrong there?  Either way, I think Romeo will be a knockdown shooter at IU next year, and Anderson will be eventually, if not right away.

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