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1 hour ago, Seeking6 said:

It's hard. Much like IU basketball over the last 15-20 years it's amazing to watch a powerfully rich program keep stumbling over itself. Manny was right in admitting the rebuild after the game yesterday. Have some upperclassmen that just don't get what it takes. Time to play the kids and start building for next year. 

The ACC needs Miami and Florida St. to be their former selves.

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18 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

And so does Clemson because I'm looking at a scenario where a 1 loss LSU team if they lose at Bama but win at Auburn could get into Final 4 over undefeated Clemson team and weak ACC.  

That is true.  I heard the talking heads discussing that last night.  

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5 minutes ago, rico said:

That is true.  I heard the talking heads discussing that last night.  

I figured the SEC machine would start it up and as much as I don't like the idea the point might be valid. I still think an undefeated conference champ deserves it over any 1 loss non conference champ team....but if the goal is to get the best 4 in?? Tough one.

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7 hours ago, Seeking6 said:

I figured the SEC machine would start it up and as much as I don't like the idea the point might be valid. I still think an undefeated conference champ deserves it over any 1 loss non conference champ team....but if the goal is to get the best 4 in?? Tough one.

Depends on how LSU would lose, and the old eyeball test.

If Oregon wins out, including their conference championship, their only loss of the year would be in their first game of the year to Auburn, in a game they controlled but lost at the end.

If they win out, and LSU loses convincingly, how do they get in without even making the conference championship game? 

Same could be said, I suppose, if LSU beats Alabama convincingly 

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3 hours ago, Steubenhoosier said:

Depends on how LSU would lose, and the old eyeball test.

If Oregon wins out, including their conference championship, their only loss of the year would be in their first game of the year to Auburn, in a game they controlled but lost at the end.

If they win out, and LSU loses convincingly, how do they get in without even making the conference championship game? 

Same could be said, I suppose, if LSU beats Alabama convincingly 

Yeah so many what ifs it’s crazy. What if OSU and Wisconsin split...what if LSU beats Bama but loses in championship. What if Oklahoma trips up but then blows out everyone rest of the way? What if ND wins out and only has 1 loss and Georgia wins sec championship game? Maybe we should go to 6 teams...top 2 ranked teams get bye and then they play final 4. I don’t know but expansion may eventually be on the horizon...I doubt it but if they can get the $$ to work then they might find a way.

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3 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Yeah so many what ifs it’s crazy. What if OSU and Wisconsin split...what if LSU beats Bama but loses in championship. What if Oklahoma trips up but then blows out everyone rest of the way? What if ND wins out and only has 1 loss and Georgia wins sec championship game? Maybe we should go to 6 teams...top 2 ranked teams get bye and then they play final 4. I don’t know but expansion may eventually be on the horizon...I doubt it but if they can get the $$ to work then they might find a way.

They need to go to 8. All 5 Power conference champions get in , 2 wild cards , and then a Group of 5 team with certain conditions 

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7 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said:

They need to go to 8. All 5 Power conference champions get in , 2 wild cards , and then a Group of 5 team with certain conditions 

Yeah but with 6 you get all power 5 and 1 at large. Thing is the conference championships are basically like first rd playoff games really. If you don’t win your conference I don’t know if you deserve in. My issue is the conferences and these divisions...they are so uneven. To me they need to figure out how to get the 2 best teams from each conference to play in the championship. Not sure how you do that but to me that is the improvement that maybe should be figured out before changing the playoffs.

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14 hours ago, dgambill said:

Yeah but with 6 you get all power 5 and 1 at large. Thing is the conference championships are basically like first rd playoff games really. If you don’t win your conference I don’t know if you deserve in. My issue is the conferences and these divisions...they are so uneven. To me they need to figure out how to get the 2 best teams from each conference to play in the championship. Not sure how you do that but to me that is the improvement that maybe should be figured out before changing the playoffs.

Agree that a team should be a conference champion. If you don't want to get left out of the playoff,  don't lose!  Just win,  and then you don't have to whine and have ESPN lobby to get you a spot over a more deserving conference champion.

This year will be very interesting if Bama gets beat by LSU. With their crap non conference schedule, there is no way they deserve a spot over an undefeated or 1 loss conference champion. But as we all know, deserving it and getting in based on powerful influence are two different things. 

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1 hour ago, NotIThatLives said:

Put the 4 best teams in regardless of undefeated,  1 loss, conference champ.  Not all schedules are created equal.  See Clemson and ND this year.  

I am tired of hearing about ND's schedule.  At the beginning of the year it was stellar.  No team in their right mind would have scheduled who they did.  Easy to cut on it as the season progresses.

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18 minutes ago, rico said:

I am tired of hearing about ND's schedule.  At the beginning of the year it was stellar.  No team in their right mind would have scheduled who they did.  Easy to cut on it as the season progresses.

If they win out and a close loss at Georgia is the only blemish I think it will be hard to keep them out of the playoffs but I could see it happening 

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6 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

If they win out and a close loss at Georgia is the only blemish I think it will be hard to keep them out of the playoffs but I could see it happening 

If the Irish finish with only 1 loss they definitely will be in the discussion.  But it depends on who the other 1 loss teams are.

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54 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

Exactly and way too early for the what ifs

Yep, but the number of undefeated teams will whittle themselves down due to regular season match-ups.  So come conference championship gametime there can only be 1 undefeated school from the B1G, SEC, Big 12, and the ACC.  

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6 hours ago, rico said:

I am tired of hearing about ND's schedule.  At the beginning of the year it was stellar.  No team in their right mind would have scheduled who they did.  Easy to cut on it as the season progresses.

Here are some preseason strength of schedule rankings.  It is so tough to tell at that time of the year, just throwing some opinions out there from before the season.

Phil Steele - 54th

247 - ranked 10th out of the 25 teams they expected in the top 25

Athlon - 10th

I feel like Notre Dame's schedule strength benefits from having a high floor.  My main issue with strength of schedule is this.  Take 2 teams, one team is the 15th best in the country, the other is the 50th.  They each play the teams that are ranked 25-36.  The 15th ranked team will be favored in all their games, and the 50th ranked team will be an underdog in all their games.  Now, same two teams, but they play the teams ranked 5-10, and 90-95.  In that case, it would likely rank as a similar schedule strength to option 1, but the 15th and 50th ranked teams would both be favored in 6 and underdogs in 6.  What is strong for one team, might be weak for another.  I think looking at each game is the best option.

Notre Dame's schedule is more like option 1.  They don't have anybody really low ranked, but they don't have many really high ranked.  Our schedule is the opposite.  Lots of high ranked teams, and lots of low ranked teams.  I think the eye test of their schedule and not playing many ranked teams could come back to bite them in the end.  Not that they tried to schedule it that way, just how it shook out this year.

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55 minutes ago, Leathernecks said:

Here are some preseason strength of schedule rankings.  It is so tough to tell at that time of the year, just throwing some opinions out there from before the season.

Phil Steele - 54th

247 - ranked 10th out of the 25 teams they expected in the top 25

Athlon - 10th

I feel like Notre Dame's schedule strength benefits from having a high floor.  My main issue with strength of schedule is this.  Take 2 teams, one team is the 15th best in the country, the other is the 50th.  They each play the teams that are ranked 25-36.  The 15th ranked team will be favored in all their games, and the 50th ranked team will be an underdog in all their games.  Now, same two teams, but they play the teams ranked 5-10, and 90-95.  In that case, it would likely rank as a similar schedule strength to option 1, but the 15th and 50th ranked teams would both be favored in 6 and underdogs in 6.  What is strong for one team, might be weak for another.  I think looking at each game is the best option.

Notre Dame's schedule is more like option 1.  They don't have anybody really low ranked, but they don't have many really high ranked.  Our schedule is the opposite.  Lots of high ranked teams, and lots of low ranked teams.  I think the eye test of their schedule and not playing many ranked teams could come back to bite them in the end.  Not that they tried to schedule it that way, just how it shook out this year.

Fine post.

And that last sentence is dead on.

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In respects to Notre Dame I mean Michigan and Georgia were expected to be top 10 teams this year. By the time it shakes out I'm not sure about Georgia I think they may end up losing 1-2 more games depending if they make the SEC Championship. Hard to say they will run the table against Florida, Auburn and likely LSU/Alabama. If they only lose in the SEC Championship they will be a top 10 team still...if they lose 2/3 then they will be in that 10-15 range. Michigan is looking like a 4-5 loss team and maybe won't even be ranked so that could kill ND. Going in you expect Stanford/USC to be in the 15-25 range...with Virginia/VT as wild card type teams that will be in that 25-50 range. It's a good schedule. It just all went wrong for ND so they likely needed to be perfect this year. Clemson will be in...as long as they don't lose nobody is going to keep out an undefeated defending NC even if they haven't played well. I'd say a 1 loss Oklahoma and 1 loss OSU (meaning they win 1 or both against Wisconsin and PSU) would likely be in along with the SEC champ...unbeaten or 1 loss. The team that would be on the outside looking in imo will be ND and Oregon...both will have a good resume and 1 tough road/neutral site loss against an SEC opponent but I can't see them getting moved ahead unless Clemson stumbles or B1G has a two loss conference champion.

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2 hours ago, dgambill said:

In respects to Notre Dame I mean Michigan and Georgia were expected to be top 10 teams this year. By the time it shakes out I'm not sure about Georgia I think they may end up losing 1-2 more games depending if they make the SEC Championship. Hard to say they will run the table against Florida, Auburn and likely LSU/Alabama. If they only lose in the SEC Championship they will be a top 10 team still...if they lose 2/3 then they will be in that 10-15 range. Michigan is looking like a 4-5 loss team and maybe won't even be ranked so that could kill ND. Going in you expect Stanford/USC to be in the 15-25 range...with Virginia/VT as wild card type teams that will be in that 25-50 range. It's a good schedule. It just all went wrong for ND so they likely needed to be perfect this year. Clemson will be in...as long as they don't lose nobody is going to keep out an undefeated defending NC even if they haven't played well. I'd say a 1 loss Oklahoma and 1 loss OSU (meaning they win 1 or both against Wisconsin and PSU) would likely be in along with the SEC champ...unbeaten or 1 loss. The team that would be on the outside looking in imo will be ND and Oregon...both will have a good resume and 1 tough road/neutral site loss against an SEC opponent but I can't see them getting moved ahead unless Clemson stumbles or B1G has a two loss conference champion.

You left out they played at Louisville...oh and they play at Duke.  The same Duke that Bama played.

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2 hours ago, rico said:

You left out they played at Louisville...oh and they play at Duke.  The same Duke that Bama played.

Yes...I didn't think either of those teams would be top 50 teams but who knows. Honestly, with the ACC schedule they have theirs is superior than Clemsons even with the down year.

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11 hours ago, dgambill said:

Yes...I didn't think either of those teams would be top 50 teams but who knows. Honestly, with the ACC schedule they have theirs is superior than Clemsons even with the down year.

With all we have been talking about ND, Clemson is the team that has no room for error.

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