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Proud2BAHoosier

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rogue3542

rogue3542

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41 minutes ago, btownqb said:

LSU, Bama, and Auburn> OSU, PSU, and Michigan.. that was the orginal comment. Divisions. 

We're just going to have to agree to disagree on that.  I think all three of those sets of teams are respectively about as good as each other right now.  Michigan has really improved as of late.

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Zlinedavid

Zlinedavid

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I think this is Btownqb's thinking:

Out of those 6 teams, you have 3 that are tier 1/elite/true NC contenders: OSU, Bama and LSU. Auburn and PSU are on the 2nd tier, with Michigan being one notch below.

Not trying to slam Michigan, but if you had to pick odds for Michigan playing any of the other 5 on that list, would they be favored in any of them?

Two Tier 1 teams and one Tier 2 vs one Tier 1, one Tier 2 and one Tier 3.

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rico

rico

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4 minutes ago, Zlinedavid said:

I think this is Btownqb's thinking:

Out of those 6 teams, you have 3 that are tier 1/elite/true NC contenders: OSU, Bama and LSU. Auburn and PSU are on the 2nd tier, with Michigan being one notch below.

Not trying to slam Michigan, but if you had to pick odds for Michigan playing any of the other 5 on that list, would they be favored in any of them?

Two Tier 1 teams and one Tier 2 vs one Tier 1, one Tier 2 and one Tier 3.

Meh.  We are talking divisions here.  One thing that gets lost here is Ole Miss, Missy St., and Arkansas.  And contrary to what Btown believes A&M aint that damn good.  I will add Auburn just as easily could be a 3 loss team.  And add further that the B1G West is better than the SEC East.  Both conferences play the other division.  

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dgambill

dgambill

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12 hours ago, Hoosierinbham said:

I'm just trying to have some objective comparisons along with personal opinions. Obviously we disagree on the absolute dominance of the SEC this year. Nothing wrong with that.  I can tell you from fans down here I know, you value their teams much more than they do this year (excluding Bama and LSU, obviously).

I hear you but you can go through a lot of teams schedules and make that case. Penn St. was very lucky to beat an avg Pittsburg team...honestly might say Pitt should have won that game. Michigan should have lost to Army. Clemson could have lost to North Carolina. Yes the SEC will beat up on itself here at the end of the season but it has nothing to do with ESPN right now. You look at the best teams and Alabama and LSU are right there with Clemson and Ohio St. I would say Penn St, Oklahoma, and Oregon are close behind but Florida, Georgia, and Auburn are right there with them. You can disparage the bottom of the SEC I know but Kentucky has gotten a lot more respectable. They have a pretty good defense and they will be a bowl team...a bowl team that last year beat Penn St. That isn't the Kentucky of old...they just need a qb. There have been many years in the past it's just been Georgia and Alabama at the top and the rest been pretty thin but this year the conference has been pretty strong and to me pass the eye test.

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Hoosierinbham

Hoosierinbham

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13 minutes ago, dgambill said:

I hear you but you can go through a lot of teams schedules and make that case. Penn St. was very lucky to beat an avg Pittsburg team...honestly might say Pitt should have won that game. Michigan should have lost to Army. Clemson could have lost to North Carolina. Yes the SEC will beat up on itself here at the end of the season but it has nothing to do with ESPN right now. You look at the best teams and Alabama and LSU are right there with Clemson and Ohio St. I would say Penn St, Oklahoma, and Oregon are close behind but Florida, Georgia, and Auburn are right there with them. You can disparage the bottom of the SEC I know but Kentucky has gotten a lot more respectable. They have a pretty good defense and they will be a bowl team...a bowl team that last year beat Penn St. That isn't the Kentucky of old...they just need a qb. There have been many years in the past it's just been Georgia and Alabama at the top and the rest been pretty thin but this year the conference has been pretty strong and to me pass the eye test.

I agree with most of what you're saying, except the ESPN part. Knowing several people that work in the SEC headquarters, I can tell you some of you greatly underestimate the influence ESPN has on rankings, public perception, and ultimately the playoff.

Who publishes pre season rankings? Who hosts College Gameday and tightly controls the narrative?  Who publishes articles and has stories on multiple network channels?  Look, they're smart to protect and promote their product (SEC football).  I've had these conversations with people in significant positions,  and they're response is, "wouldn't you do the same?" 

We can probably all agree the B1G East and SEC West are the top two divisions in college football. I personally think it varies year to year who "the best" is that season. The playoff allows a chance to prove it.  Unless they leave out the B1G to put in two from the SEC. Rant over.

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dgambill

dgambill

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11 hours ago, rico said:

tOSU, Penn St., Michigan> LSU, Bama, Auburn

 

Most recently last 10 years so half with playoffs half without:

OSU 7-5 , Penn ST. 3-6, Michigan 3-6  bowl games 1 NC. (very much a Ohio St holding that group up)

Bama 10-4, LSU 6-5, Auburn 5-4 bowl games 6 NC (this just misses Sabans NC at LSU)

LSU and Auburn also both lost in NC games.... when was the last time Michigan or Penn St. was even in the playoffs or NC game much less won one 94 & 97. I agree Ohio St. is right behind Alabama (who by the way all their losses were against playoff teams) but Michigan and Penn St are far behind LSU and Auburn success...and probably Georgia (7-5) and Florida (7-2 with 1 NC and the study just missed another) Is that even close??

Since 1992 SEC 13 NCs by 5 different teams....B1G 4 by 3 teams.

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dgambill

dgambill

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1 hour ago, Steubenhoosier said:

At least we can now officially put the "Notre Dame deserves to be in the discussion" to bed.

Completely dominated on both sides of the line of scrimmage. Michigan manhandled them.

 

I should have picked the Wolverines to beat them. ND hasn't beaten a team ranked higher than #21 on the road since 2012. Home wins are nice but they don't fare well on the road. Michigan starting to get some attitude back. Their offense is still not very good but the defense is finding its way back. Seems the only big wins either ND or Michigan can find are against each other lol.

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rico

rico

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30 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Most recently last 10 years so half with playoffs half without:

OSU 7-5 , Penn ST. 3-6, Michigan 3-6  bowl games 1 NC. (very much a Ohio St holding that group up)

Bama 10-4, LSU 6-5, Auburn 5-4 bowl games 6 NC (this just misses Sabans NC at LSU)

LSU and Auburn also both lost in NC games.... when was the last time Michigan or Penn St. was even in the playoffs or NC game much less won one 94 & 97. I agree Ohio St. is right behind Alabama (who by the way all their losses were against playoff teams) but Michigan and Penn St are far behind LSU and Auburn success...and probably Georgia (7-5) and Florida (7-2 with 1 NC and the study just missed another) Is that even close??

Since 1992 SEC 13 NCs by 5 different teams....B1G 4 by 3 teams.

SEC narratives should be frowned upon in this establishment!

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rico

rico

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7 minutes ago, dgambill said:

I should have picked the Wolverines to beat them. ND hasn't beaten a team ranked higher than #21 on the road since 2012. Home wins are nice but they don't fare well on the road. Michigan starting to get some attitude back. Their offense is still not very good but the defense is finding its way back. Seems the only big wins either ND or Michigan can find are against each other lol.

Didn't Michigan beat Iowa?  That is a big win in my book.

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dgambill

dgambill

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42 minutes ago, rico said:

SEC narratives should be frowned upon in this establishment!

Look. I'll try to stop...but man it ain't even close. I'll take that narrative about seeing SEC go North and try to play a true road game in Nov. all day...but it is hard to argue which is more successful. My dream.....an SEC/B1G challenge last week of Oct true home games. With the current playoff set up I don't think it will ever do that but down the road who knows. These power houses in the SEC never play true road games out of conference it seems though. Same for B1G. The conferences benefit most from the current playoff system because they likely now at least get 1 in. You open it up and there is competition for more than one spot...maybe they take some chances to get more of their teams in over another conference.

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dgambill

dgambill

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28 minutes ago, rico said:

Is A&M ranked?

Nope. You think Iowa would do better with A&Ms schedule? Clemson, Alabama, Auburn, LSU, and Georgia. I think A&M would beat Iowa. Iowa's best win is Iowa St. They won't be ranked likely by year end but that is a quality football team in College Station. I'd say comparable. Might find out more about Iowa here at the end of the season as their schedule gets tougher but they too have lost to the only good teams on their schedule.

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rico

rico

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1 hour ago, dgambill said:

Nope. You think Iowa would do better with A&Ms schedule? Clemson, Alabama, Auburn, LSU, and Georgia. I think A&M would beat Iowa. Iowa's best win is Iowa St. They won't be ranked likely by year end but that is a quality football team in College Station. I'd say comparable. Might find out more about Iowa here at the end of the season as their schedule gets tougher but they too have lost to the only good teams on their schedule.

I am pretty sure Iowa could handle Texas St., Lamar, Arkansas, Ole Miss, and Mississippi St.

But you need to make up your mind.  You are saying Iowa's losses are to good teams.  But yet you have bad mouthed both PSU and UM?  What is up with that?  

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dgambill

dgambill

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36 minutes ago, rico said:

I am pretty sure Iowa could handle Texas St., Lamar, Arkansas, Ole Miss, and Mississippi St.

But you need to make up your mind.  You are saying Iowa's losses are to good teams.  But yet you have bad mouthed both PSU and UM?  What is up with that?  

No. I said they are equal. Iowa couldn't beat any of the teams A&M has lost to. Anyways I don't want to go on and on...if you feel Iowa is better than A&M so be it. I don't. Maybe they will play a bowl game against each other. If you say the rankings are skewed then so be it. Don't use ranking to make the point of Iowa. Both teams have lost to the "good" teams on their schedule. I think it is very difficult to differentiate much from the 15th ranked team in the country to the 50th honestly. Typically have 4-6 teams that are heads and shoulders above the rest of college football. Then 7-15 that are just a level below those top elite teams...and so on. IMO which doesn't count for squat I'd say PSU has one tier 2 (#7-#15) win (Michigan) and one tier 3 (#16-#50) win (Iowa). They have one tier 1 game remaining and let's be real...probably 2 tier 3 level team in Minnesota and Indiana. I know I know...what about Alabama. Yes they haven't played their top schedule yet...but they have won convincingly everybody they have played and if they lose sure they should be moved down below PSU just as PSU will move down if they lose or up if they beat Ohio St. Hey...Rico you know I support our Indiana teams IU,ND, then PU. It doesn't please me any to say the SEC is the best league...but this year it looks that way. In the end it will all play out and we will see but until PSU and Michigan and ND etc start winning bowl games and playoff games OSU is the only Midwest team I can say is really a team that threatens to win a NC. I see (eye test) Ohio St as the only team with a NC chance and could beat any SEC team. I think they have a real shot at it this year....but that doesn't give me any confidence in Michigan, Iowa, Wisconsin, or Penn St. I think Alabama, LSU, Auburn, Florida, and Georgia all would beat any B1G teams outside OSU in a bowl game. Ok..enough from me you can have the last word.

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jv1972iu

jv1972iu

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3 hours ago, dgambill said:

No. I said they are equal. Iowa couldn't beat any of the teams A&M has lost to. Anyways I don't want to go on and on...if you feel Iowa is better than A&M so be it. I don't. Maybe they will play a bowl game against each other. If you say the rankings are skewed then so be it. Don't use ranking to make the point of Iowa. Both teams have lost to the "good" teams on their schedule. I think it is very difficult to differentiate much from the 15th ranked team in the country to the 50th honestly. Typically have 4-6 teams that are heads and shoulders above the rest of college football. Then 7-15 that are just a level below those top elite teams...and so on. IMO which doesn't count for squat I'd say PSU has one tier 2 (#7-#15) win (Michigan) and one tier 3 (#16-#50) win (Iowa). They have one tier 1 game remaining and let's be real...probably 2 tier 3 level team in Minnesota and Indiana. I know I know...what about Alabama. Yes they haven't played their top schedule yet...but they have won convincingly everybody they have played and if they lose sure they should be moved down below PSU just as PSU will move down if they lose or up if they beat Ohio St. Hey...Rico you know I support our Indiana teams IU,ND, then PU. It doesn't please me any to say the SEC is the best league...but this year it looks that way. In the end it will all play out and we will see but until PSU and Michigan and ND etc start winning bowl games and playoff games OSU is the only Midwest team I can say is really a team that threatens to win a NC. I see (eye test) Ohio St as the only team with a NC chance and could beat any SEC team. I think they have a real shot at it this year....but that doesn't give me any confidence in Michigan, Iowa, Wisconsin, or Penn St. I think Alabama, LSU, Auburn, Florida, and Georgia all would beat any B1G teams outside OSU in a bowl game. Ok..enough from me you can have the last word.

OSU has SEC type speed.  I don't believe the other schools you mention do.

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