18 years ago on Sept. 10, in IU history.....

[Seeking6]

On 9/10/2018 at 4:09 PM, milehiiu said:

 Bobby Knight was fired

I actually was in Columbus on an appt. Heard that Knight was going to speak. Made a quick drive over and stood near Dunn Meadow for it. Still to this day one of the most egregious handling of a firing I've ever watched. I was given a warning at the Hoosier Dome I think the following year or year after when UK and IU played. I saw Brand and told him what an ego he must have had to handle things that way. 

I was given a 20 minute timeout in the runway and allowed back in. haha

[milehiiu]

22 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

I actually was in Columbus on an appt. Heard that Knight was going to speak. Made a quick drive over and stood near Dunn Meadow for it. Still to this day one of the most egregious handling of a firing I've ever watched. I was given a warning at the Hoosier Dome I think the following year or year after when UK and IU played. I saw Brand and told him what an ego he must have had to handle things that way. 

I was given a 20 minute timeout in the runway and allowed back in. haha

So much for a zero tolerance policy. One way street.   Brand puts one on Knight.  Yet can't engage in a conversation with you, or simply walk away.

Again, I am not in favor of Bobby turning his back on IU.  However, based on your story I can understand what Bobby was dealing with at the time.

Hey.... thanks for sharing !

[dbmhoosier]

2 hours ago, IUwins0708 said:

Dakich and Felling took over the recruiting until Knight took back over with the Jeffries, Newton, Leach, Fife, Hornsby, Coverdale group.  What did they do?? Went to the final 4.  I still think if Knight was more involved after the early 90’s he would have hung another banner.

I remember Dakich saying he had Raef Lafreantz and Jacque Vaughn on campus for a visit and IU was likely in the lead for both but Bobby wouldn't come to campus because he had a pre planned fishing trip that was more important.  Both obviously committed to Kansas.

[IUwins0708]

45 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said:

I remember Dakich saying he had Raef Lafreantz and Jacque Vaughn on campus for a visit and IU was likely in the lead for both but Bobby wouldn't come to campus because he had a pre planned fishing trip that was more important.  Both obviously committed to Kansas.

I believe that about Vaughn but not LaFrentz.  Who knows though.  

[rico]

7 hours ago, Brass Cannon said:

 

It would have been interesting had Knight gone to New Mexico. Does he build a power out there. Or does he flounder. Who do we hire to replace him.  Who were the hot coaches that year?

My guess is he would have had success there...to what extent?  I dunno

As far as a replacement?  My guess would be Jim Crews or Joby Wright.

[Billingsley99]

10 hours ago, dbmhoosier said:

I remember Dakich saying he had Raef Lafreantz and Jacque Vaughn on campus for a visit and IU was likely in the lead for both but Bobby wouldn't come to campus because he had a pre planned fishing trip that was more important.  Both obviously committed to Kansas.

I remember hearing that as well. Underlying story Knight wanted Vaughn Lafrentz was kind of a bonus, but Vaughn wanted to visit Michigan before he committed and Knight told him if you want to visit those cheating Bastards then i dont have a place here for you.

How about that for conditional offer😁

 

[rico]

1 hour ago, Billingsley99 said:

I remember hearing that as well. Underlying story Knight wanted Vaughn Lafrentz was kind of a bonus, but Vaughn wanted to visit Michigan before he committed and Knight told him if you want to visit those cheating Bastards then i dont have a place here for you.

How about that for conditional offer😁

 

Not the way I remember it.......IIRC, Dakich had Lafrentz on campus and Knight was the one in Ann Arbor at charity golf tournament.

[Billingsley99]

11 minutes ago, rico said:

Not the way I remember it.......IIRC, Dakich had Lafrentz on campus and Knight was the one in Ann Arbor at charity golf tournament.

I know Knight was out of town when Lafrentz was on campus but the Vaughn story was told tome by Coach Norm Ellenberger. He also told me the Brian Cardinal story

[IU Scott]

38 minutes ago, rico said:

Not the way I remember it.......IIRC, Dakich had Lafrentz on campus and Knight was the one in Ann Arbor at charity golf tournament.

On DD show he said he and the Lafrentz was on campus and RMK was still in Indy after doing some filming of Blue Chips.  RMK said to take the family into the offices and RMK did not get there until about 2am.  He said after that he knew they had no chance on getting Lafrentz.

[rico]

7 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

On DD show he said he and the Lafrentz was on campus and RMK was still in Indy after doing some filming of Blue Chips.  RMK said to take the family into the offices and RMK did not get there until about 2am.  He said after that he knew they had no chance on getting Lafrentz.

My story comes from DD as well, ESPN's "Mike and Mike".

[BobSaccamanno]

The date that Knight was fired was so significant for so many reasons.   I was a Knight fan.  In his prime, he was as a good of a coach as there’s ever been at anything, any level.  He was truly special.  

I have always thought that, while bad, it wasn’t the temper that was his ultimate flaw.  I think it was his arrogance, especially after he won the third title.  

In many ways, Knight represents a missed opportunity.   If he smoothed out the rough edges and played the PR game like coach K does, he was capable of winning seven or eight titles.  He was *that* good.  But his arrogance got the better of him.  If you talk about cult of personality, Knight was larger than life.  That’s really an understatement.  There are very people you will ever encounter that had the presence he had.  He could recruit and win if he played the K game.  

When he was fired, it was obviously huge, but little did we know the funk we’d go into for the better part of two decades.   It was not so much that Knight was fired per se, but rather a keystone cop management of athletics in the administration.  They made a bad judgement and overcompensated for what happened with Knight and decided they didn’t want a coach with too much power.  It was so misguided, though, because IU essentially opted to thumb its nose at its crown jewel publicity machine.  It would be like an oil rich country thumbing their nose at vast resources of oil while having a poor economy.  

Hopefully the ship is righted with Archie.  I’m optimistic on this front.  I like his approach to the schemes and play on the court, his intelligence, approach in recruiting, etc.  After the FBI probe, he’d have to be the biggest idiot ever to get involved in illicit recruiting shenanigans so I’m confident we are in good hands there.  

 

[Zuckerkorn]

As some of these anectdotes attest, RMK had little interest in playing the recruiting games as it evolved and that, IMO, is a big reason we had begun to slip.  While I can easily see why he didn't want to play in the increasingly dirty recruiting game, his stubborness to do so put us at a disadvantage - despite his coaching genius.
 

I don't think it's unfair to question his commitment to some of his resposibilities.  He was thoroughly disinterested in doing his radio and TV shows.  And while it could be amusing for us (with the option to turn it off at any time), it was really disrespectful to the listeners/viewers and especially to those who were involved in a professional capacity (ex. Don Fischer and Chuck Marlowe).

 

[BobSaccamanno]

55 minutes ago, rico said:

My story comes from DD as well, ESPN's "Mike and Mike".

You guys have lots of correct info.  I was very clued into the program at this time.  The Lafrentz and Vaughn stuff is true.  In fact, a lot of insiders thought we were getting both.  I actually told people we looked great on both.  

Dakich is an interesting guy.  He likes to point out good recruiting choices by cherry picking and using hindsight.  But, he whiffed frequently as a talent evaluator.  Knight blamed Dakich and Felling for some mistakes.  One example is Charlie Miller.  Dakich thought he could be Calbert Cheaney in the offense.  

Felling did hit a grand slam with Brian Evans, though.  

The Knight fishing instead of recruiting stuff is true.  He delegated a lot of that out to Felling and Dakich and that was a mistake.  At the end Knight wanted Dak to cut the umbilical cord and go get a head job once and for all.  Maybe there was some mentoring there but he also wanted fresh eyes in recruiting and coaching.  

[Billingsley99]

Love this type of inside info. Thank you for sharing

[milehiiu]

15 minutes ago, Zuckerkorn said:

As some of these anectdotes attest, RMK had little interest in playing the recruiting games as it evolved and that, IMO, is a big reason we had begun to slip.  While I can easily see why he didn't want to play in the increasingly dirty recruiting game, his stubborness to do so put us at a disadvantage - despite his coaching genius.
 

I don't think it's unfair to question his commitment to some of his resposibilities.  He was thoroughly disinterested in doing his radio and TV shows.  And while it could be amusing for us (with the option to turn it off at any time), it was really disrespectful to the listeners/viewers and especially to those who were involved in a professional capacity (ex. Don Fischer and Chuck Marlowe).

 

In terms of Chuck Marlowe (may he RIP), Marlowe had unbelievable patience in dealing with Knight.  Knight was abusive to him both on and off the camera.  I recall Marlowe telling the story, after he no longer was doing the show, how, he had to show up for taping at a set time.  But never knew when Knight would get in studio.  Sometimes for hours, late at night, and often early the next morning. 

I can't speak to Don Fischer, as I don't know enough about his relationship with Knight.  But you are spot on, when it comes to Marlowe. 

Here's a video where they had to start taping three times, because of the way Knight reacted to one of Marlowe's questions :

INDIANA BASKETBALL BOB KNIGHT SHOW 1992-93 SEASON 

[rico]

The fact is there are numerous reasons for the General's downfall.  On the court and off the court.  The discussion probably will keep going on after we are dead and gone.

[rico]

10 minutes ago, milehiiu said:

In terms of Chuck Marlowe (may he RIP), Marlowe had unbelievable patience in dealing with Knight.  Knight was abusive to him both on and off the camera.  I recall Marlowe telling the story, after he no longer was doing the show, how, he had to show up for taping at a set time.  But never knew when Knight would get in studio.  Sometimes for hours, late at night, and often early the next morning. 

I can't speak to Don Fischer, as I don't know enough about his relationship with Knight.  But you are spot on, when it comes to Marlowe. 

Here's a video where they had to start taping three times, because of the way Knight reacted to one of Marlowe's questions :

INDIANA BASKETBALL BOB KNIGHT SHOW 1992-93 SEASON 

I remember that episode.........PATRICK was part of his downfall as well.

[Zuckerkorn]

20 minutes ago, milehiiu said:

In terms of Chuck Marlowe (may he RIP), Marlowe had unbelievable patience in dealing with Knight.  Knight was abusive to him both on and off the camera.  I recall Marlowe telling the story, after he no longer was doing the show, how, he had to show up for taping at a set time.  But never knew when Knight would get in studio.  Sometimes for hours, late at night, and often early the next morning. 

I can't speak to Don Fischer, as I don't know enough about his relationship with Knight.  But you are spot on, when it comes to Marlowe. 

Here's a video where they had to start taping three times, because of the way Knight reacted to one of Marlowe's questions :

INDIANA BASKETBALL BOB KNIGHT SHOW 1992-93 SEASON 

No doubt Chuck was made into a whipping boy.  Mark Monteith interviewd Chuck and the subject of the famous "Pudue Jack" show came up.  As I recall, it was Chuck Marlowe that got called on the carpet by the higher ups.  But he didn't speak negatively about Bob at all.

I remember some of the Monday night radio shows when Don was trying to do his job and Knight would be eating or remain silent for extended periods of time (apparently doing something else).  It was often pretty amusing and Don took it well, but there were times he clearly was frustrated.

One other thing that used to kind of bother me: I went to several of the tip off luncheons at the Indy convention center.  After the coach had spoken about the team and upcoming season, they'd have a microphone where audience members could pose questions.  If Bob didn't think much of the question, he'd give the fan a not so gentle dressing down.  It was like how he often responded to reporters, but these were fans with genuine questions.  That was when I began to acknowledge some of the chinks in his armor.

[hoosiertildeath]

Yes , and the Old Fart is too darn stubborn to return to be honored by Hoosier Fans !! What a pity !!

[Billingsley99]

8 hours ago, hoosiertildeath said:

Yes , and the Old Fart is too darn stubborn to return to be honored by Hoosier Fans !! What a pity !!

Yes sir, we have been down this road.  Its not the University he us snubbing it is us fans. Most of which defended the man and everything he had done. Its a shame for the fans.

[rico]

It is just time to move on as best we can.  The Bob Knight ship sailed out of port a long time ago.