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Celebrity Bias


5fouls

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I have not seen IU in anyone's Top 25.

IU is not anywhere to be found in Joe Lunardi's pre-season bracketology.

Yet, everyone in the media talks about what a solid hire Archie Miller was.

If they truly mean that why is IU not getting any respect?

If IU would have hired Billy Donovan, the buzz (and rankings) would be everywhere.

Same thing with players.  It's not necessarily an upset when a team of glitzy UK freshmen roll through a weak SEC conference undefeated only to lose in the Final Four to an experienced group of talented players from Wisconsin. Wisconsin should have been expected to win that game.

It's like a bunch of teenagers fawning over the latest pop-star heart-throb.  And, it's silly.  

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I think people question our talent level. I don't agree with them, I think our talent is more or less on par with the rest of the conference sans MSU. 

The other aspect is people saying it takes time to adjust to a new coach. My issue with this is we see good coaches come in and have an impact in a year or two in football frequently and that is a sport with a much bigger adjustment period than basketball. My dad is a from Alabama and I follow Auburn football - twice in the last decade a new coach came in and took an underachieving group with chemistry issues and had them playing for a national title within the first two years (first year after the more disappointing of seasons that lead to a coaching change). 

I think our issues last year were mostly chemistry and leadership, not talent. Yes, we lost talent but I'd argue not as much as people say and we gained leadership and chemistry. 

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6 hours ago, FKIM01 said:

I hate to say it but I think we are solidly behind Purdoo for one more year.  Get your licks in now, toiletmakers!

We have a good start with next year's class but the fact is we are set to lose more than we are gaining pending more  signees. If that holds this years team should be better than next. People are grossly underestimating this group.

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4 hours ago, 5fouls said:

We have a good start with next year's class but the fact is we are set to lose more than we are gaining pending more  signees. If that holds this years team should be better than next. People are grossly underestimating this group.

I think our ceiling will be much higher in 2018, depending on how Archie rounds out the freshman class.

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8 hours ago, 5fouls said:

We have a good start with next year's class but the fact is we are set to lose more than we are gaining pending more  signees. If that holds this years team should be better than next. People are grossly underestimating this group.

I agree with this , nice recruits , but no instant impact players(yet). Looking at a step back next year as well.

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2 hours ago, H00sier said:

I agree with this , nice recruits , but no instant impact players(yet). Looking at a step back next year as well.

That's such a long way away it's hard to project. I tend to agree if we don't land a guy like Romeo, but it isn't a certainty. 

Green - Jones - Smith - Morgan - Davis

That's not a bad 5 at all. Throw a guy like Romeo or Hurt reclassifying and I think it's a really good team. 

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2 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

That's such a long way away it's hard to project. I tend to agree if we don't land a guy like Romeo, but it isn't a certainty. 

Green - Jones - Smith - Morgan - Davis

That's not a bad 5 at all. Throw a guy like Romeo or Hurt reclassifying and I think it's a really good team. 

Oh, I agree totally, that's why I added the (yet). Landing a Romeo type player can change the look of a team in a hurry. Fingers crossed 

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I think there has been celebrity bias and there always will be. About us not being included in top 25, I actually like it that way...sort of flying under the radar and hopefully surprising everybody. My prediction for this season is 24-9 (assuming 2-1 in BTT) and to get an at-large bid. But we can definitely have a better season. Some teams in the past with good amount of talents did quite well after coaching changes. What our team needs is (1) solid half court offense and (2) respectable defense. If we can make progress in these areas throughout the season, we may find ourselves pleasantly surprised at end of season.

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On 8/19/2017 at 10:59 PM, 5fouls said:

We have a good start with next year's class but the fact is we are set to lose more than we are gaining pending more  signees. If that holds this years team should be better than next. People are grossly underestimating this group.

I feel the same way.  We aren't going to replace Oladipo or Bryant, but really what IU lost more than anything was depth, especially at the 4-5.  I think this year's incarnation of IU basketball is going to look a lot grittier and tougher than previous versions.  We've got decent depth at guard, and I feel by the end of the year will have decent depth at the wings.  Really the biggest hole is having a solid backup to Davis (who, in my opinion, was playing just as well as , if not better than Bryant by the end of last season).  That, in my opinion, is the biggest (pun intended) immediate recruiting need.

G: Johnson, Newkirk, Jones, Green w/ Durham developing

F: Hartman, Morgan, McSwain, McRoberts w/ Smith and Thompson developing

C: Davis w/ Moore developing

The lack of depth at 5 is really going to hurt late in games, and IU may be playing some three guard lineups this season to compensate.  Who really cares if IU is in the top 25?  What I want to see this year is good, fundamental basketball with good defense.  I really do think IU will be rounding into a tough team by the end of the season (if they don't do it sooner than that).  Let's not forget the core group of this year's team is also most of the team that beat Kansas and UNC last year.

 

On a side note, when did Vijay Blackmon join the roster? I'm sure I read something about this, but seem to have forgotten.  Is he sitting this year?

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1 hour ago, rogue3542 said:

G: Johnson, Newkirk, Jones, Green w/ Durham developing

F: Hartman, Morgan, McSwain, McRoberts w/ Smith and Thompson developing

C: Davis w/ Moore developing

I see it pretty much the same. Like the quantity and quality of our guards.

I think Smith will get plenty of PT and be ahead of McRoberts. 

I think Morgan will play at the 4 and spell Davis at the 5 and with Davis out. 

My lineup-

Newkirk, RoJo, Hartman, Morgan and Davis

Backed up by-

Green, CuJo, Smith, McSwain, and Morgan. 

Lot of athleticism with that second group. 

I think the real threat up front will be when Morgan gets into foul trouble. 

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I'm most concerned with when Davis gets into foul trouble or if he happens to miss a few games due to injury.  I can see Morgan or even McSwain filling in for a couple minutes a game, but Morgan will be playing huge minutes if he is the primary backup for Davis.  I think we have to hope that More has added some bulk this some and has a serviceable inside presence for about 10 minutes a game.  Maybe Tim Priller can play a handful of minutes a game?  Inside depth really worries me about this team.

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I think the issue is difference makers. I see a bunch of solid players and that's it. Davis could make a nice leap, but it's not proven. Robert Johnson can play great, but needs to show it consistently. I see a mid table Big Ten team and if some players make a jump we could be a top 4-5 conference team. 

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18 hours ago, Feathery said:

I think the issue is difference makers. I see a bunch of solid players and that's it. Davis could make a nice leap, but it's not proven. Robert Johnson can play great, but needs to show it consistently. I see a mid table Big Ten team and if some players make a jump we could be a top 4-5 conference team. 

I tend to lean your way. I hear what 5fouls is saying, and there is potential for this group if lots of things fall right (several key players making a leap: Morgan, Davis, CuJo, Green, etc., and a guy like Smith making a bigger impact than expected), but there are several teams, based on what their returning players have done and who they're bringing, that I would put ahead of IU at the beginning of the season. 

Just off the top of my head, I think you have to put MSU, Maryland, Purdue, Northwestern, Minnesota, Michigan, and even maybe Wisconsin and Iowa ahead of IU. Again, just based off what returners have showed previously, what's coming in, etc., I think you have to put IU in that 6-9 range and probably closer to 9 as far as a preseason prediction. You also have to have the caveat that we have a new coach, so an entire new program is being implemented and to a group of players that haven't show great leadership in the past outside of Hartman. 

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9 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I tend to lean your way. I hear what 5fouls is saying, and there is potential for this group if lots of things fall right (several key players making a leap: Morgan, Davis, CuJo, Green, etc., and a guy like Smith making a bigger impact than expected), but there are several teams, based on what their returning players have done and who they're bringing, that I would put ahead of IU at the beginning of the season. 

Just off the top of my head, I think you have to put MSU, Maryland, Purdue, Northwestern, Minnesota, Michigan, and even maybe Wisconsin and Iowa ahead of IU. Again, just based off what returners have showed previously, what's coming in, etc., I think you have to put IU in that 6-9 range and probably closer to 9 as far as a preseason prediction. You also have to have the caveat that we have a new coach, so an entire new program is being implemented and to a group of players that haven't show great leadership in the past outside of Hartman. 

Agree that we lack difference makers, but not sure about putting us 9th.  Michigan and Wisconsin lost just as much as we did, if not more.  They will be relying on just as many unproven role players as we are, and they don't have great recruiting classes either.  Maryland and Iowa both lost their best players, and will also be relying on relatively unproven underclassmen.

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1 minute ago, FW_Hoosier said:

Agree that we lack difference makers, but not sure about putting us 9th.  Michigan and Wisconsin lost just as much as we did, if not more.  They will be relying on just as many unproven role players as we are, and they don't have great recruiting classes either.  Maryland and Iowa both lost their best players, and will also be relying on relatively unproven underclassmen.

Maryland and Iowa's returning freshmen (going to be sophomore's) proved way more than IU's did last season. Huerter, Jackson and Covan all averaged about 10ppg last season had really solid freshmen seasons, to the point where Jackson almost left. Tyler Cook and Bohannon (both freshmen last season) both averaged double figures. Then you look at Michigan and Wisconsin, agree both lost equal if not more talent, but they also got key returners back. Happ is one of the best players in the conference, and they return some role players, and Michigan has Wagner, Rahman and the UK transfer. 

They all have question marks, but they also have guys coming back that have "star" potential and are more proven. We do have RoJo who is in that conversation, but his struggles last season make it hard to have confidence. 

I guess, I see what 5fouls is saying, and if guys step up and develop it's certainly reasonable for IU to outperform the bad projections, but I completely see why IU is being projected where they are. 

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20 hours ago, SpiderMonkey said:

I'm most concerned with when Davis gets into foul trouble or if he happens to miss a few games due to injury.  I can see Morgan or even McSwain filling in for a couple minutes a game, but Morgan will be playing huge minutes if he is the primary backup for Davis.  I think we have to hope that More has added some bulk this some and has a serviceable inside presence for about 10 minutes a game.  Maybe Tim Priller can play a handful of minutes a game?  Inside depth really worries me about this team.

Until proven otherwise, I'm figuring about 25 min per game for Davis. That accounts for his conditioning and foul trouble. I don't see staying out of foul trouble as the norm so expect Morgan will play less at the 4 where we have more capable options so as to spell Davis at the 5.

The IU roster had Moore at 200 lbs so I'm not expecting more than spot minutes for him this year. 

I do think Pillar can be a factor. He has played against some formidable talent in practice and looked decent enough in his mop up minutes that he should be serviceable when called on for limited minutes. 

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On 8/22/2017 at 10:18 AM, rogue3542 said:

 

On a side note, when did Vijay Blackmon join the roster? I'm sure I read something about this, but seem to have forgotten.  Is he sitting this year?

Been a couple of months since it was announced.  I believe he started last season enrolled at St. Francis in Ft. Wayne but left the bball team in mid-season.  Never heard any reason what the problem was and why he left when he did but whatever the reason, it must not have bothered Archie that he accepted him as a walk-on.  I think he's immediately eligible but not 100% certain on that.  From what I've heard, the youngest Blackmon (Jalen class of '21) is the one we definitely want to get so staying in the good graces of the Blackmon family could have future rewards.

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We lost guys that contributed a fair amount for at least part of last year. With them, we did not make the dance. This may be a case of addition by subtraction, but I am not convinced yet.

Surely, Archie will be a stronger in-game coach than Crean was. Hopefully, the kids will buy into playing defense at a higher level than what we have seen recently. However, it is not going to be an immediate turn around with these kids who were recruited to play a different system than what Archie espouses. Especially, for the kids who have been under the tutelage of Crean the last two years, there may be some bad habits that have to be unlearned.

 

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