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2018 Midterm Elections


Brass Cannon

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2 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

Fair enough still doesn’t explain why our life expectancy went down recently for the first time in a while. 

But how about if our healthcare is better then why is infant mortality lower here?

I think my point does a great job of explaining that. I don't think we have the best healthcare in the world, but I think healthcare is one factor in life expectancy and quality of life. 

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2 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

1) I'm unaware of any prominent elected socialist in America. Who are you referencing? I'm judging by actual positions not how they label themselves. 

2) do you have the same negative feelings towards the far-right, such as the freedom caucus?

1) Bernie Sanders is one.  I use socialist as an identifier because that is how he labeled himself.  Take the girl from New York who won her primary and calls herself a democratic socialist.  What I saw was the democrat party immediately elevating her to the new face of the party and put her in the spotlight.  wether she wins or not doesnt matter. The ideas are out there now.  And some potential presidential candidates and house candidates adopting some of her platform. They aren't getting elected yet but the foot is in the door and the party showed which direction it wants to go.

2) When it comes to wanting to legislate morality or affecting individual liberty (gay marriage for example) I have a negative position.  Im fine with fiscal conservative views.

 

 

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28 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

Not to defend the point but our diets are absolute shit and we put a lot of shit in our bodies in ways besides food that other countries don't or at least don't do at the same volumes we do

I agree.  The people of Okinawa are a great example and Japan too.  They eat ALOT of seafood rich in omega 3 and from what I have read not alot of processed grains.

I believe healthcare is self care.  It starts at home.  But, I believe a lack of education is a major factor. People should be educated on nutrition in high school at a minimum. 

Preventable disease has to be a major driver to the elevated costs.

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18 minutes ago, mrflynn03 said:

1) Bernie Sanders is one.  I use socialist as an identifier because that is how he labeled himself.  Take the girl from New York who won her primary and calls herself a democratic socialist.  What I saw was the democrat party immediately elevating her to the new face of the party and put her in the spotlight.  wether she wins or not doesnt matter. The ideas are out there now.  And some potential presidential candidates and house candidates adopting some of her platform. They aren't getting elected yet but the foot is in the door and the party showed which direction it wants to go.

2) When it comes to wanting to legislate morality or affecting individual liberty (gay marriage for example) I have a negative position.  Im fine with fiscal conservative views.

 

 

1) Democratic Socialists aren't the same as Socialists. 

2) fair enough. 

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9 minutes ago, mrflynn03 said:

I agree.  The people of Okinawa are a great example and Japan too.  They eat ALOT of seafood rich in omega 3 and from what I have read not alot of processed grains.

I believe healthcare is self care.  It starts at home.  But, I believe a lack of education is a major factor. People should be educated on nutrition in high school at a minimum. 

Preventable disease has to be a major driver to the elevated costs.

Totally agree. 

On the Omega 3 point, we don't need a lot of it we need it to balance with Omega 6. Eating a lot of Omega 3 is one way to do that, but another us limiting your Omega 6 intake. I'm not sure either way is right or wrong, other than limiting your oil intake is probably a good thing. 

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14 minutes ago, mrflynn03 said:

I agree.  The people of Okinawa are a great example and Japan too.  They eat ALOT of seafood rich in omega 3 and from what I have read not alot of processed grains.

I believe healthcare is self care.  It starts at home.  But, I believe a lack of education is a major factor. People should be educated on nutrition in high school at a minimum. 

Preventable disease has to be a major driver to the elevated costs.

That’s a great point. I had a decent base knowledge but i have lost 20 pounds since July first by listening to my wife. Haven’t worked out a single day. Just eat differently I probably eat more in fact. The only tough part was giving up soda  

I feel better day in and day out. Sleep deprived because of the toddler and yet probably feel better than before the baby

i think we need massive education, healthcare energy and tax reform.  We need to basically remake the federal infrastructure cutting out waste and making sure the different pieces work together. 

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14 hours ago, mrflynn03 said:

Here is a smaller example and one I am familiar with because my wife and her family are from Illinois.

Chicago politics controls Illinois.  Do you think city dwellers understand or have the best interests of their fellow illini in mind?  What the hell do chicagoans know about farming for example?  The heartland feeds America but people want to dismiss half their country as deplorable.  The half that feeds them.  

I'm skipping the bulk of this argument because it just tends to divide Hoosier basketball fans, but this is a great example of politics gone wrong.  The Illinois pension fund is so underfunded, if it were a private company, it would have been taken over years ago by the PBGC and benefits would have been slashed based on mandatory cuts.  Illinois is a great example of politicians being corrupt (look at all the recent governors) and buying votes with promises they cannot keep.

There is a reason that the United States  is a constitutional republic instead of a popular vote democracy...consider this quote:

“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years. These nations have progressed through this sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great courage; From courage to liberty; From liberty to abundance; From abundance to selfishness; From selfishness to apathy; From apathy to dependence; From dependence back into bondage.” - Alexander Fraser Tytler

More and more I see politicians on both sides of the aisle take the easy path of spending more and more with little thought about how this ultimately plays out in the future.  Term limits are desperately needed so our leaders would do the right thing, rather than the thing that gets them re-elected.  Only then do we have a chance of righting the ship and reducing the size of this bureaucratic monstrosity we've created as well as reducing dependency on the government.  Unfortunately, term limits would have to be put in place by the very people who don't want them, which is why my long-term outlook for a country I love very much is so negative.  I hope I'm wrong.  I'm confident I'm not.

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13 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

Totally agree. 

On the Omega 3 point, we don't need a lot of it we need it to balance with Omega 6. Eating a lot of Omega 3 is one way to do that, but another us limiting your Omega 6 intake. I'm not sure either way is right or wrong, other than limiting your oil intake is probably a good thing. 

Agreed.  I limit my oil intake to about 1 - 2 grams omega 3 and rarely cook with oil and when I do its high temp olive oil.  Most cooking oils are garbage. 

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8 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said:

That’s a great point. I had a decent base knowledge but i have lost 20 pounds since July first by listening to my wife. Haven’t worked out a single day. Just eat differently I probably eat more in fact. The only tough part was giving up soda  

I feel better day in and day out. Sleep deprived because of the toddler and yet probably feel better than before the baby

i think we need massive education, healthcare energy and tax reform.  We need to basically remake the federal infrastructure cutting out waste and making sure the different pieces work together. 

Good deal. Im down about 25 from my high point. Havent worked out much yet either. Still have work to do with eating a cleaner diet.

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7 hours ago, Seeking6 said:

I'll ask the same question I ask all the time when I hear this. What's your solution? Growing up in a city (Chicago) that was better at the bitch/complaining vs offering solutions....I'm always fascinated when people say things like this. I mean BO was in the White House for 8 years and didn't do a thing to improve this. Pelosi has been in charge of the Democrats for 12 years. So I ask the question....what's the solution?  Because it's clear the very leaders who are expected to help the less fortunate haven't done a thing in that regard. 

I certainly do not have a comprehensive plan to fix the wealth distribution problem, though I imagine the answer lies in the tax code. Any mention of raising taxes in this country is almost always met with scorn.

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7 hours ago, PoHoosier said:

Doubtful we will agree on this, and that is also fine.
My offerings are that capitalism is fine, until corruption and greed enter into the picture.  My concerns on socialism is Venezuela, and past failings of socialism.  Lets say greed and corruption do in capitalism and we go with socialism, are the governmental powers that be (corrupt and greedy - why I mentioned getting special interest groups out of politics in my post above) still going to be running everything.  Is it going to be different?  We go down that road, are we able to turn back, or does the ship continue taking on water?  How do we make socialism work ie, not fail as it has in Venezuela and now defunct governments/countries?  Please do not cite Scandinavian countries as socialist as they rebuffed Bernie in calling them that when Bernie Sanders ran.  None of those countries are socialist as many define them.  Perhaps, our definitions of socialism are different.

Canada is widely considered socialist, and has a 50% tax rate.  Sweden is 61.85%, Denmark 60.2%, Finland is down to 51.6% after topping out at 62.2% in 1995, and so on.  Are the poor helped out with socialism in these countries or are they subject to the same tax?  Do they even have poor?  I ask not out of snark, but because I do not know and know no one in those countries (except for a few in Canada and they want our tax rates and health care.  To me, that screams of the concerns of socialism)

I am throwing tons of stuff out there, I apologize, 14 hour work night, another tonight. 
Getting to direct answers, capitalism again is being destroyed by corruption and greed.  Back in the 1950s, a corporation viewed its success not by its stock value or its profit margin, but the quality of lives its employees lived.  One person could work in a household, one could stay home and take care of the kids and house.  That one worker could pay for the house, 2 cars, and put the kids through college.  Wage stagnation over the last 50+ years has destroyed capitalism and the family.  Both parents must now work, the value of a parent in the home is not known, forgotten and often unheard of.

Lastly, I think we do agree that there are HUGE problems.  No solution is easy or without debate and tons of work.  Hopefully, whatever solution is reached, things improve for all.  Cheers, and great discussion.  Hopefully, I can understand socialism better and have my fears alleviated through better understanding.  Perhaps, those friends in Canada are wrong.

I really respect this post. I am not fully on board with how America could pull of more of a socialist system, and capitalism did seem to work better in the 1950s. This may have been due to FDR and his more socialist policies that limited the effect of greed inherent in the capitalist system. I wish I knew what would work, but thoughtful post like yours has got to be more helpful to the process. Cheers.

 

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52 minutes ago, IUDan93 said:

I certainly do not have a comprehensive plan to fix the wealth distribution problem, though I imagine the answer lies in the tax code. Any mention of raising taxes in this country is almost always met with scorn.

Anyone know what the top tax bracket was when Reagan took office and when he left?

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2 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

Anyone know what the top tax bracket was when Reagan took office and when he left?

I wanna say he went from 70% down to the low 30%s.  I know it was %91 when JFK took office.  A big issue is lowering capital gains tax too.  Also, the govt began to use the S.S. trust fund to pay for federal programs so that taxes could be lowered.  This, however, added to our debt because this money, unlike taxes, was borrowed.

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16 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

I saw no one take issue with saying America was better, at least economically speaking, in the 1950s. Fair to say no one has issue with returning to the tax policies of that time? 

From what I have heard Trump actually tried and was told if he did his base would abandon him.  I dislike the man greatly but if so good for him. 

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26 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

I saw no one take issue with saying America was better, at least economically speaking, in the 1950s. Fair to say no one has issue with returning to the tax policies of that time? 

You got to remember, at that time we had just came out of WWII which actually pulled us out of the depression.  Life was good in in the 50's according to my parents.

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52 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

I saw no one take issue with saying America was better, at least economically speaking, in the 1950s. Fair to say no one has issue with returning to the tax policies of that time? 

“We have a system that increasingly taxes work and subsidizes nonwork.” - Milton Friedman

“Indeed, in a free government almost all other rights would become worthless if the government possessed power over the private fortune of every citizen.” - John Marshall

...and my personal favorite...

“You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift. You cannot help small men by tearing down big men. You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. You cannot lift the wage-earner by pulling down the wage-payer. You cannot help the poor man by destroying the rich. You cannot keep out of trouble by spending more than your income. You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred. You cannot establish security on borrowed money. You cannot build character and courage by taking away men’s initiative and independence. You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves.”  - William Boetcker

Government growth since the 1950's has far outpaced GDP growth and increased taxation is like pouring gasoline on the spending fire that is our government.  At some point, we have to ask what we are getting for our tax dollars.  A 1993 article I read not long ago stated that what the government spent on various forms of government welfare aid from 1978 to 1993 could have purchased all the assets of the S&P 500 and every acre of farmland in the United States.  The article fairly asked what we had to show for all of that spending and you can call me a skeptic when it comes to whether or not the government is the most efficient mechanism for spending.  Atlas Shrugged paints a dire picture of what happens when politicians keep "soaking the rich" to fund the government's never-ending thirst for spending.  Is it plausible?  Only time will tell but watching the movie when it came out a few years back, I had several uncomfortable moments when I thought "this really could be us."

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1 hour ago, KoB2011 said:

I saw no one take issue with saying America was better, at least economically speaking, in the 1950s. Fair to say no one has issue with returning to the tax policies of that time? 

I believe access to easy credit and government subsidized loans, specifically student loans, is more of a factor in income inequality than tax policy.  And has also contributed to wage stagnation.

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3 minutes ago, mrflynn03 said:

I believe access to easy credit and government subsidized loans, specifically student loans, is more of a factor in income inequality than tax policy.  And has also contributed to wage stagnation.

Part of the problem that I haven't pointed out yet is that the govt and the economic power structure is pretty much one and the same.  Credit was the means for keeping capitalism going when the working class did not have enough money to spend.  Govt supported this due to the influence of those who benefited the most from capitalism.  With this being said, I am not completely anti-capitalist, nor am I smart or studied enough to say that socialism (or some variation of this) would do a better job of taking care of the masses of willing workers in this country. My wife works with developmentally disabled children who need one to one aids for such things as eating, toileting, etc.  These aids work tirelessly, and make about $10/hour.  They often have unreliable vehicles, poor but cheap diets, and dental care is often a difficult proposition due to the cost of care outside of two cleanings a year.  This, to me, is why our system is really broken.  Sometimes I think, to paraphrase William Boetcker, that we build up "big men" by tearing down the "small man".

 

I am enjoying people's thoughts on these issues, and in the end, I am glad we all root for the same team and for the same well-being of others.  I wonder how this conversation would sound on the UK board.

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