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Put me in the camp that says Allen deserves a fair chance. He needs a couple more seasons before we'll start to know what we've got, good or bad. Dump Debord and our special teams coach, and bring in some young, inventive, hungry coaches in their place.

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Hey, Ramsey was Allen’s recruit. The last QB Wilson brought in was a dud that beat a ranked MS team, stayed within ten of Mich, played the rest of the season after MS with a hernia that required surge

Game primer and prediction for Maryland.  The Terps are a tough team to read with major drama off the field and major inconsistency on it. https://www.thedailyhoosier.com/maryland-at-indiana-game

Put me in the camp that says Allen deserves a fair chance. He needs a couple more seasons before we'll start to know what we've got, good or bad. Dump Debord and our special teams coach, and bring in

45 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said:

Look more closely at the Alvarez situation. He had never been a HC and Wisconsin was just as bad or worse than we are prior to him coming. Took time for him to establish roots and turn the program.

Purdue, unfortunately, has a better program than you give credit.. While Tiller only won one conference title, he had them in bowl games 10 of the 12 years he was there. IU has only been in 11 bowl games ever. Even Danny Hope got them to two bowl games. Hazell was a dumpster fire, but even he got 4 years.

Look, I don't know whether Allen is the answer or not. What I do know, is that firing him now will definitely cause the recruits to start "jumping ship", as you say. It will also pretty much perpetuate the losing for the forseeable future.

 

Alvarez took over an absolute cellar dweller of a program who had won a total of six games in three years under the previous HC and had them at 5-7 in his second season then won a Rose Bowl in the 4th year. Allen took over a team who had just gone to two straight bowl games, had upgraded some of the best facilities in the nation and a BTN contract to ensure all their games will be on national TV. The point is Alvarez learned to be a coach from two HOF guys over the course of 10 years. The two hires are not even in the same book let alone chapter of new hire successes. I never said IU's coach has to have HC experience. I said he needs to have better resume than Allen. 

Purdue has a tradition of being a decent, middle of the pack program. Winning 6-7 games a season and going to a bowl game, mind you is a nice start, it doesn't make you a tradition rich program. By that standard Purdue also has a rich basketball tradition. Hazell only got 4 years because their AD is a moron who wouldn't spend money. Ask any Purdue fan and they'll tell you they never wanted him in the first place and were calling him to be fired after year one. 

I'll obviously root for Allen to succeed because I think he's a good guy with high moral character and I'm an IU fan and want the team to win. However, I don't think he was the right decision for the program and his inability to manage it thus far speaks volumes. What you saw from PJ Fleck and Minnesota was a guy who has the management skills to identify a weak link and make a necessary change. You can't complain about Debord and praise Allen...and that's not his only major mistake. Not hiring a DC and delegating properly is also on him. 

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52 minutes ago, Hoosier82 said:

Alvarez took over an absolute cellar dweller of a program who had won a total of six games in three years under the previous HC and had them at 5-7 in his second season then won a Rose Bowl in the 4th year. Allen took over a team who had just gone to two straight bowl games, had upgraded some of the best facilities in the nation and a BTN contract to ensure all their games will be on national TV. The point is Alvarez learned to be a coach from two HOF guys over the course of 10 years. The two hires are not even in the same book let alone chapter of new hire successes. I never said IU's coach has to have HC experience. I said he needs to have better resume than Allen. 

Purdue has a tradition of being a decent, middle of the pack program. Winning 6-7 games a season and going to a bowl game, mind you is a nice start, it doesn't make you a tradition rich program. By that standard Purdue also has a rich basketball tradition. Hazell only got 4 years because their AD is a moron who wouldn't spend money. Ask any Purdue fan and they'll tell you they never wanted him in the first place and were calling him to be fired after year one. 

I'll obviously root for Allen to succeed because I think he's a good guy with high moral character and I'm an IU fan and want the team to win. However, I don't think he was the right decision for the program and his inability to manage it thus far speaks volumes. What you saw from PJ Fleck and Minnesota was a guy who has the management skills to identify a weak link and make a necessary change. You can't complain about Debord and praise Allen...and that's not his only major mistake. Not hiring a DC and delegating properly is also on him. 

For the past 25 years PU's football program is better than ours and they do have a pretty rich basketball tradition. Whether this is relevant to Allen? IDK. However, these last three games will show whether players are still buying in and if there is some light at the end of the tunnel. Win two, I won't complain. Win one, not a terrible year. Lose all three, it's going to be tough to keep all of our recruits. Win all three? Give him an extension. 

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32 minutes ago, OGIUAndy said:

For the past 25 years PU's football program is better than ours and they do have a pretty rich basketball tradition. Whether this is relevant to Allen? IDK. However, these last three games will show whether players are still buying in and if there is some light at the end of the tunnel. Win two, I won't complain. Win one, not a terrible year. Lose all three, it's going to be tough to keep all of our recruits. Win all three? Give him an extension. 

Better than ours, absolutely...rich tradition? Agree to disagree. If he wins 2 of the next three and makes some off season transactions on the coordinator positions I'll change my tune as he'll have shown he's growing into his role. I did preface my initial comments by saying if we don't beat Maryland...This will be a test of how well he's managing the locker room. Lose with poor effort and lack of execution and you know he's lost the team. Can't imagine losing 5 games in a row and coming back to beat Michigan on the road and a surging Purdue team. This game should be very important to Allen and his future at IU. 

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1 hour ago, OGIUAndy said:

For the past 25 years PU's football program is better than ours and they do have a pretty rich basketball tradition. Whether this is relevant to Allen? IDK. However, these last three games will show whether players are still buying in and if there is some light at the end of the tunnel. Win two, I won't complain. Win one, not a terrible year. Lose all three, it's going to be tough to keep all of our recruits. Win all three? Give him an extension. 

You mentioned past 25 years but I’d say it’s been for the entire history of the two programs. Purdue is mediocre historically but that’s a significant upgrade from where IU has been historically speaking. 

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38 minutes ago, Hoosier82 said:

Better than ours, absolutely...rich tradition? Agree to disagree. If he wins 2 of the next three and makes some off season transactions on the coordinator positions I'll change my tune as he'll have shown he's growing into his role. I did preface my initial comments by saying if we don't beat Maryland...This will be a test of how well he's managing the locker room. Lose with poor effort and lack of execution and you know he's lost the team. Can't imagine losing 5 games in a row and coming back to beat Michigan on the road and a surging Purdue team. This game should be very important to Allen and his future at IU. 

I agree Purdue doesn’t have a rich tradition. It’s decent with some sustained periods of solid success but overall it’s average. 

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23 minutes ago, Stlboiler23 said:

I agree Purdue doesn’t have a rich tradition. It’s decent with some sustained periods of solid success but overall it’s average. 

The "rich tradition" comment was in response to "By that standard Purdue also has a rich basketball tradition." which I never said the FB team has, but the BB team does have a pretty rich tradition. And every school's FB history is better than IU's besides about 5 schools; who are arguably better. IU is pretty much the worst program in CFB history. In fact they have the most losses of all-time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_Division_I_FBS_football_win-loss_records

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I totally agree we need to give Allen a couple more years. I think the telling tail  will be if he makes changes at OC and special teams coaches. Allen needs to go out and hire a stronger staff. He needs to be the HC. Hold these coordinaters accountable! We played a lot of Freshman this year. The experience of the players should pay off next year. Ramsey isn’t our starting QB. You can see the big ten teams loading up the box because he is no treat down field! His first 20 completions against Minn avg. 4.5 yards. DeBord is terrible, every place he has been the offense has gone backwards. The question really is who is out there that IU can get! I am tire of words, we need wins! Big wins! 

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4 hours ago, Kodos said:

Put me in the camp that says Allen deserves a fair chance. He needs a couple more seasons before we'll start to know what we've got, good or bad. Dump Debord and our special teams coach, and bring in some young, inventive, hungry coaches in their place.

He's going to be fired it's a matter of if not when.  Fred certainly won't do it this season.  Probably after next if we don't go bowling.

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1 hour ago, Bob said:

I totally agree we need to give Allen a couple more years. I think the telling tail  will be if he makes changes at OC and special teams coaches. Allen needs to go out and hire a stronger staff. He needs to be the HC. Hold these coordinaters accountable! We played a lot of Freshman this year. The experience of the players should pay off next year. Ramsey isn’t our starting QB. You can see the big ten teams loading up the box because he is no treat down field! His first 20 completions against Minn avg. 4.5 yards. DeBord is terrible, every place he has been the offense has gone backwards. The question really is who is out there that IU can get! I am tire of words, we need wins! Big wins! 

By chance, do I know you ?  Only reason, I ask is like 10 years or more ago, when I was moderating John Decker's Hoosier Nation, on the old Scout platform, we had a great member who went by the user name of Bob. And your post reminds me much of the insight he would bring to the board.

Regardless... welcome to Hoosier Sports Nation !

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I'm willing to give Allen at least through next year.  If we had a decent OC, we would likely have at least an extra win this year and last year.  Our terrible red zone offense has to be an emotional drain on the rest of the team.  If DeBord is gone, things could really change for the better next year.  Need to figure out special teams too.  DeBord can't come back or I might jump off the bandwagon.

His recruiting has been improved over Wilson too.  Wilson would get a couple highly rated guys, but some years he wouldn't fill it out with a whole lot of depth.  The last couple years of Wilson, his recruiting was pretty rough.  Terrible QB recruiting, OL recruiting slacked a lot, and the lack of depth in our current upperclassmen shows.  I'm willing to give Allen time to get his guys as upperclassmen.  We have a lot of good freshman, and a good recruiting class we can hopefully keep intact and add to.  People said we'd lose people last year too after 5 wins, and I don't know if we lost a single recruit around signing day.  I'm willing to let it play out for another year or two and see where he takes it.

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7 hours ago, Hoosier82 said:

Alvarez took over an absolute cellar dweller of a program who had won a total of six games in three years under the previous HC and had them at 5-7 in his second season then won a Rose Bowl in the 4th year. Allen took over a team who had just gone to two straight bowl games, had upgraded some of the best facilities in the nation and a BTN contract to ensure all their games will be on national TV. The point is Alvarez learned to be a coach from two HOF guys over the course of 10 years. The two hires are not even in the same book let alone chapter of new hire successes. I never said IU's coach has to have HC experience. I said he needs to have better resume than Allen. 

Purdue has a tradition of being a decent, middle of the pack program. Winning 6-7 games a season and going to a bowl game, mind you is a nice start, it doesn't make you a tradition rich program. By that standard Purdue also has a rich basketball tradition. Hazell only got 4 years because their AD is a moron who wouldn't spend money. Ask any Purdue fan and they'll tell you they never wanted him in the first place and were calling him to be fired after year one. 

I'll obviously root for Allen to succeed because I think he's a good guy with high moral character and I'm an IU fan and want the team to win. However, I don't think he was the right decision for the program and his inability to manage it thus far speaks volumes. What you saw from PJ Fleck and Minnesota was a guy who has the management skills to identify a weak link and make a necessary change. You can't complain about Debord and praise Allen...and that's not his only major mistake. Not hiring a DC and delegating properly is also on him. 

The whole “Alvarez learned to be a coach “ thing is overrated in my opinion. We have had two men’s basketball head coaches that were mentored by RMK and Izzo. How did those guys work out? A HC has to set his own tone for his program, put his systems in, recruit his guys. Took Alvarez 4 years to win—a recruiting cycle. Let’s see where Allen is after 4 years.

 I agree, Debord has to go. The Allen should have relinquished the DC responsibilities is a good comment with the benefit of looking through the rear view mirror. There was too much upheaval going on in the program when Allen took over and with the way the defense improved, I can understand why he didn’t hire a DC. I also think that now is the time to get a good coordinator for that side of the ball

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10 hours ago, Steubenhoosier said:

The whole “Alvarez learned to be a coach “ thing is overrated in my opinion. We have had two men’s basketball head coaches that were mentored by RMK and Izzo. How did those guys work out? A HC has to set his own tone for his program, put his systems in, recruit his guys. Took Alvarez 4 years to win—a recruiting cycle. Let’s see where Allen is after 4 years.

 I agree, Debord has to go. The Allen should have relinquished the DC responsibilities is a good comment with the benefit of looking through the rear view mirror. There was too much upheaval going on in the program when Allen took over and with the way the defense improved, I can understand why he didn’t hire a DC. I also think that now is the time to get a good coordinator for that side of the ball

I love the post and the Davis and Crean references.  JMO, Alvarez was meant to be a coach.  He took over that program and made it what it is.  We need a guy like that.  

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I wasn't a fan of Allen getting job to begin with. Thought it was a safe/cheap hire. Here's my thing though. After Crean extension, Wilson extension and subsequent firing, Allen hire.....are we sure we want Fred Glass to make this decision? I'm usually a fan of FG but how many hires and fires does the same AD usually get?

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I don’t know what Fred Glass was before he became the AD at IU. He spent a lot of money on the stadium to make upgrades. If he was a good businessman I would think he then would spend the needed money to fill the stadium! The only way is to put a product on the field that excites and draws in the fans! Can’t keep coming close need to win flat out win. If he was an academic then maybe he doesn’t get it that you need to win to fill that stadium and  make money! It is a shame to watch a game on tv an they don’t show the crowd because the stadium is almost empty! 

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^^^ Bob,  I am not sure you don't know what Mr. Glass was before becoming IU's AD.  However, here is a brief history, just off the top of my hat.  Born in Indianapolis.  Undergrad degree from Indiana University. Law degree from Indiana University.  Worked for a former governor of Indiana.  Helped build athletic venue in Indianapolis.  And was a partner in a prestigious Indianapolis law firm. And if memory serves me correctly, supported for the job by non other than Harry Gonso... a great IU QB, and the only one to take IU to a Rose Bowl.

An avid fan of IU athletics for decades, Mr. Glass  replaced an athletic director who had little to no connection to Indiana University, in the way that Mr. Glass had prior to becoming IU's AD.

As far as spending money improving Memorial Stadium, Mr. Glass has been involved in many other projects that have considerably upgraded IU athletics across the board.  Just to name a few.  Renovating, instead of replacing Assembly Hall. Building a new facility dedicated to IU volleyball, and wrestling. And not to mention, what Snowling previewed for us just a day or so ago.... the "rebuilding" of IU's golf course.

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Thank you milehiiu, sounds like Mr Glass is more then qualified to do this job! I find it interesting that Harry Gonso supported him. I was a freshman in High School in 1967. My team came to IU to watch the Hoosier play Minnesota. We sat in the end zone bleachers and watch IU win that game late in the fourth quarter i believe. I have been a fan ever since. Been hope to get back to the Rose bowl again! 

 

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Most dangerous game in the last ten years for IU this weekend. You lose to a team in disarray like Maryland and the recruits run. Then you face Michigan that will try to score for points with the ratings, and then rival Purdue. If they go 0-3 Allen will have to go for the programs sake. It won’t matter if he is a nice guy, or needs time, reality will set in and a house cleaning will take place. They can not lose to a Maryland team that has had these distractions. Glass will make the change or the fire will get him too. Let’s see how the next three weeks play.

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4 minutes ago, Payday said:

Most dangerous game in the last ten years for IU this weekend. You lose to a team in disarray like Maryland and the recruits run. Then you face Michigan that will try to score for points with the ratings, and then rival Purdue. If they go 0-3 Allen will have to go for the programs sake. It won’t matter if he is a nice guy, or needs time, reality will set in and a house cleaning will take place. They can not lose to a Maryland team that has had these distractions. Glass will make the change or the fire will get him too. Let’s see how the next three weeks play.

I suspect we will not win another game this season. 

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