Should Tom Allen be fired?

[mrflynn03]

I think Coach Allen can be good, but he has to realize he needs better assistants and coordinators.

[rico]

5 hours ago, 5fouls said:

Keep in mind that his recruits are freshman and sophomores.  Also, keep in mind that this is not Michigan or Ohio State.  

UK fans were wanting Mark Stoops fired not too long ago.  Their reasoning.  He's recruiting well, but ain't doing nothing with it.  His record by season.

2-10

5-7

5-7

7-6

7-6

6-1 and ranked 12th in the country.

This is IU.  You have to give the coach some time.  Mallory was 4-7 in his second year.  Hep was 5-7.  No one was demanding either of those coaches be fired.

 

 

 

 

Funny how things change, now UK fans are concerned about losing Stoops.

As far as Mallory and Hep, they had good resumes before they got here.  They both were proven commodities.

[5fouls]

8 minutes ago, rico said:

Funny how things change, now UK fans are concerned about losing Stoops.

As far as Mallory and Hep, they had good resumes before they got here.  They both were proven commodities.

Even so, if a 'proven' coach can't make it happen in a year and a half at indiana, why should we expect an unproven one to do so?  I just think it's silly that even though we are generally happy with his recruiting, that we are expecting a certain level of results when his oldest recruits are only sophomores.  

[rico]

2 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Even so, if a 'proven' coach can't make it happen in a year and a half at indiana, why should we expect an unproven one to do so?  I just think it's silly that even though we are generally happy with his recruiting, that we are expecting a certain level of results when his oldest recruits are only sophomores.  

Well the proven coaches took over bad situations, the unproven one(Allen) took over a program that was on the rise.  Hell, his first game was in a bowl.

[5fouls]

45 minutes ago, rico said:

Well the proven coaches took over bad situations, the unproven one(Allen) took over a program that was on the rise.  Hell, his first game was in a bowl.

And, of the 5 losses, 4 of them were not considered to victories going into the season anyway, and the 5th one was on the road.  It's just way too premature for this talk.  Sure, if Nick Saban decides he wants to spend his last few years in Bloomington, you make a change.  But, if you make a change without having a difference maker lined up as a replacement, you run the risk of not only hiring someone that will have less success, but you will break the recruiting momentum that we have.  Next year we can begin having a conversation if we don't go bowling.

[jv1972iu]

7 hours ago, 5fouls said:

Keep in mind that his recruits are freshman and sophomores.  Also, keep in mind that this is not Michigan or Ohio State.  

UK fans were wanting Mark Stoops fired not too long ago.  Their reasoning.  He's recruiting well, but ain't doing nothing with it.  His record by season.

2-10

5-7

5-7

7-6

7-6

6-1 and ranked 12th in the country.

This is IU.  You have to give the coach some time.  Mallory was 4-7 in his second year.  Hep was 5-7.  No one was demanding either of those coaches be fired.

 

 

 

 

This is the correct answer.  

[jv1972iu]

8 hours ago, JcityHoosier said:

He's a high school coach....

With D.C. experience at the college level and seemingly pretty good recruiting connections in the south...especially in Florida.

[rico]

38 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

And, of the 5 losses, 4 of them were not considered to victories going into the season anyway, and the 5th one was on the road.  It's just way too premature for this talk.  Sure, if Nick Saban decides he wants to spend his last few years in Bloomington, you make a change.  But, if you make a change without having a difference maker lined up as a replacement, you run the risk of not only hiring someone that will have less success, but you will break the recruiting momentum that we have.  Next year we can begin having a conversation if we don't go bowling.

Yep, after year #3.  But before then it is completely obvious that we need some staff changes.

[5 championships]

8 hours ago, Leathernecks said:

I don't think he should be. I think a lot of people are jumping the gun. If DeBord is here next year I might change my tune. I'd probably throw Inge in there too.

If we would have had a competent OC last year and this year, things would be way different. I'd be interested in seeing what next year's team could be with a good offensive coordinator.

I think part of it is that the team is beat down by the crap they see on offense and special teams. Get decent coordinators there, and this could be a really good team next year and the year after.

I think Allen has the potential to be really good, and some of his staff needs to go before I think he should go. If they don't go, I'll reconsider my views.

This! Mike Debord the door is over there..don’t let it hit you on the way out.. Tom Allen?? No..

[Seeking6]

Should Tom Allen be fired? Of course not. Should he understand he's at the halfway point of what I think is an acceptable time period to determine if he should be fired? Yes. Everything has arrows pointing up except the results on the field. Of course if we beat Maryland and Purdue....most people will change their tune.

[5 championships]

7 hours ago, 5fouls said:

 

 

7 hours ago, 5fouls said:

Keep in mind that his recruits are freshman and sophomores.  Also, keep in mind that this is not Michigan or Ohio State.  

UK fans were wanting Mark Stoops fired not too long ago.  Their reasoning.  He's recruiting well, but ain't doing nothing with it.  His record by season.

2-10

5-7

5-7

7-6

7-6

6-1 and ranked 12th in the country.

This is IU.  You have to give the coach some time.  Mallory was 4-7 in his second year.  Hep was 5-7.  No one was demanding either of those coaches be fired.

 

 

 

 

Thank you! Gesh people are so impatient these days.. i guess I forgot we been a national power in football for last 100 years.. like basketball.. oh wait.. guess we’ve been respectable.. oh wait... actually we have completely sucked for well forever.. and let’s stack that on top of the fact we play in college football toughest division. And yea sounds completely realistic to expect a tournaround in year 2..said no one ever. 

Now mike Debord is flat out awful!! He has to go! Tom Allen should be givin time.. for 1 I think he is a solid coach.. 2 if/when he does turn it around he isn’t going anywhere. Give it 3-4 years. With a decent coordinator I believe things will looks a lot different.  

But i guess society now expects everything to happen at a finger snap. Just type it in your phone or order it straight to your house 1 day shipping..world we live in now. No patients to see anything through. 

[hoopsta007]

20 minutes ago, 5 championships said:

 

Thank you! Gesh people are so impatient these days.. i guess I forgot we been a national power in football for last 100 years.. like basketball.. oh wait.. guess we’ve been respectable.. oh wait... actually we have completely sucked for well forever.. and let’s stack that on top of the fact we play in college football toughest division. And yea sounds completely realistic to expect a tournaround in year 2..said no one ever. 

Now mike Debord is flat out awful!! He has to go! Tom Allen should be givin time.. for 1 I think he is a solid coach.. 2 if/when he does turn it around he isn’t going anywhere. Give it 3-4 years. With a decent coordinator I believe things will looks a lot different.  

But i guess society now expects everything to happen at a finger snap. Just type it in your phone or order it straight to your house 1 day shipping..world we live in now. No patients to see anything through. 

The problem for most around here isn’t instant gratification. As IU fans we have seen this cycle before.  The team is regressing. We have directly lost games because of coaching. Time isn’t some magical solution. You have to have the right guy being given the time. That being said he shouldn’t be fired yet (there you go DJ 😁)

[rico]

I want to expand on the UK aspect.  First off, they only play 8 conference games.  Secondly, the East has been way down for quite a few years particularly Tennessee and Florida.  Looks as though the Gators have hit their stride.  UGA is good.  So that leaves Vandy, USCe,  and Mizzou.  They played Miss. St. and A&M on the other side.  Basically what I am saying is, you put UK in the West and what would their record be?  

[FWIUFan]

No.  Not ready to fire CTA yet.  I like the way recruiting is going and still understand were are young.  What I would like to see is this:

1.  Show Mike DeBord the door today

2.  Promote Mike Hart to OC for remainder of the year.  I like what he has done with recruiting the backs.  I hope he has enough coaching experience  to implement an offensive scheme.

3.  Commit to be a running offense for the remainder of the year with an option attack

4.  Reece Taylor at QB

 

Finish the season and reassess entire program.

[Hoosier82]

3 hours ago, 5fouls said:

Even so, if a 'proven' coach can't make it happen in a year and a half at indiana, why should we expect an unproven one to do so?  I just think it's silly that even though we are generally happy with his recruiting, that we are expecting a certain level of results when his oldest recruits are only sophomores.  

His mismanagement of even the simplest concepts speaks volumes. Game management/lack of meaningful adjustments, personnel management, clock management are all things he’s absolutely terrible at. Making himself DC...terrible decision. Even the best coaches in the country aren’t dumb enough to assume that works. Hiring a failed OC and not holding him accountable is just icing on the cake. His recruiting isn’t that much better than Wilson’s and far from makes up for his shortcomings. 

[Payday]

10 hours ago, hoosier8760 said:

 To be honest we’re getting what we pay for, IU has the lowest paid coaching staff in the big 10. It starts with our president, who I can’t stand. No commitment to football, which is typically key in keeping alumni happy at any power 5 school. Or at least pretending to give a shit, but we don’t even do that. (Lowest paid coaches, still no beer sales, pass outs, dicking with tailgate parking, JOKE ticket prices, no tiered pricing for higher rows, list goes on)

Finally someone else who gets it. You just can’t command a top tier program and run it like a high school program. At some point the high end boosters are going to have to demand excellence and force the program into a Big Ten program mentality.

[Hoosier82]

9 minutes ago, FWIUFan said:

No.  Not ready to fire CTA yet.  I like the way recruiting is going and still understand were are young.  What I would like to see is this:

1.  Show Mike DeBord the door today

2.  Promote Mike Hart to OC for remainder of the year.  I like what he has done with recruiting the backs.  I hope he has enough coaching experience  to implement an offensive scheme.

3.  Commit to be a running offense for the remainder of the year with an option attack

4.  Reece Taylor at QB

 

Finish the season and reassess entire program.

All of those things makes perfect sense (except maybe Hart isn’t ready yet, no way for us to know) but none will happen. This guy is used to being a dictator at Ben Davis. He doesn’t know what he’s doing in the BigTen

[FWIUFan]

1 minute ago, Hoosier82 said:

All of those things makes perfect sense (except maybe Hart isn’t ready yet, no way for us to know) but none will happen. This guy is used to being a dictator at Ben Davis. He doesn’t know what he’s doing in the BigTen

I agree that I have no idea if Mike Hart is ready yet.  However, DeBord has proven his incompetence.  In my opinion, we have nothing to lose.

[FWIUFan]

6 minutes ago, Payday said:

Finally someone else who gets it. You just can’t command a top tier program and run it like a high school program. At some point the high end boosters are going to have to demand excellence and force the program into a Big Ten program mentality.

I too agree with these sentiments.  My comments were based solely on playing the hand we are currently dealt.

[Payday]

3 hours ago, rico said:

Funny how things change, now UK fans are concerned about losing Stoops.

As far as Mallory and Hep, they had good resumes before they got here.  They both were proven commodities.

Stoops had pretty decent pedigree and, as you said Hep and Mallory were known legit. Besides, Kentucky has a very favorable schedule this year for an SEC but there is a good chance they only win one more game this season.

[Artesian_86]

Waking up this morning after watching, once promising IU loose again last night, is difficult. However, right now and at least for the next couple of years, coach Allen is going to be coaching at IU.

Now, looking to the future, should he solely be THE head coach and hire a new offensive, defensive and special teams coordinators?

Can he be a better coach if he is the head coach only? I don't know, but if I am coach Allen, I'm taking a long look in the mirror as to how I can right this ship. This whole Tom Allen thing reminds me of a captain on an old wooden ship in a storm. This ship is "listing" left and right and taking on water. She is off course, sails beginning to tear, lost some of hear crew.....he can still see a beacon of light from a distant harbor. This captain has to get his ship safely to shore before it sinks. IF, he can somehow get "her" to shore (win 2 more games), does he keep his existing crew or hire new? 

Guys, I love the whole coach Allen thing, his firey approach and Indiana connection. I think he can get this ship righted and safely to shore. 

However, before he heads back out to "sea", he needs to relieve his old crew of their duties and hire a new, stronger crew. Together, they have to repair and rebuild this ship so she's stronger than ever before!

 

[5fouls]

6-5-1

6-6

7-5

6-6

Nick Saban's first 4 years at Michigan State after taking over a team that finished 5-6 the year before (before all 5 wins were forfeited).

 

 

[jblaz13]

12 hours ago, hoosiermd said:

I don't have an answer for this, but I always think you can't look at things in a vacuum. The Big 10 East is NASTY we all know this. I think it's going to be hard for Indiana to beat Michigan, Michigan St., Ohio St., and Penn State. If you assume those 4 are losses each year then Indiana has to at least go 6-2 in the other 8 to get bowl eligible. It makes me sick to say it, but if Brohm stays at Purdue, we aren't beating them. That means IU has 5 losses on the schedule needing to go 6-1 in their other 7. It helps that the next few years the non-conference games are against Ball St., Connecticut, Western Kentucky & Eastern Illinois, but eventually Cincinnati & Louisville show up on those OOC schedules as well. 

I've had trouble with IU's administration for a VERY LONG time, but I think Indiana HAS to look for moves that Baylor, Purdue & Iowa State made. Matt Rhule went from Temple to Baylor. Matt Campbell went from Toledo to Iowa State. Jeff Brohm went from Western Kentucky to Purdue. Those schools aren't any more of a destination spot than Indiana is in today's landscape of college football. 

There is some "right place right time" aspect there, but Indiana needs to seize those kinds of opportunities regardless of when they come about. I like Allen, but I don't think he's as good a coach as either Rhule, Brohm or Campbell. 

Maybe it's long term, but IU needs to take advantage of a Rhule/Campbell/Brohm type situation, but the key here is that when they do, an Indiana kid comes up under Rhule/Campbell/Broh, plays at Indiana and is as sharp as a tack. That guy eventually comes back to Indiana and the Hoosiers have a great coach. It's long term thinking, but we've waited this long. What's another decade or so??!!

I think that's BS about not being able to beat Brohm during his stay.I think that rests on some staff decisions by Allen and Brohm's future possibly .That is,  if thing don't change soon(next 1-2 years) with Indiana's results.

Purdue is well coached, but there isnt some wide talent gap.

Other than Moore they have experience at the skill positions, and they dont hold back at QB regardless of eligibility and balance.Theyre playing to win now not next year.Biggest difference I see.IMO. The defense is suspect butt they have so much to feed off of momentum wise because they call an aggressive game.

Similar talent to IU. Our own breakout Freshman Scott could become untacklable, and people will eat their words when he's grown up and eating DLs and LBs.Walker will be no worse than Knox, who I really like. Reese is something else and just wait. Scott could top 1000  still.The lines will be largely intact moving forward.Allen's new core will mature further. More talent will be added. 

So....I get the anxiety, but I'll pass on this notion  for now. Hiller needs to go too ,but his line would work if Debord did enough to keep opponents on their heels. IU putting up 30+ with the D they have now growing a little more seasoned , will be all around  n a better place. They've still hung with Ohio State,Michigan,Penn State and Michigan for several years going so Purdue isn't going to be Alabama in the likely one to two years or less it will take for Brohm to be hired away. The coach after Brohm will be the one I'd be more worried about beating.

With an offense to go finish, the plays the IU D have made recently would be back breakers So it is more about failure to capitalizeon those often enough  than perhaps anything.

[5 championships]

4 hours ago, hoopsta007 said:

The problem for most around here isn’t instant gratification. As IU fans we have seen this cycle before.  The team is regressing. We have directly lost games because of coaching. Time isn’t some magical solution. You have to have the right guy being given the time. That being said he shouldn’t be fired yet (there you go DJ 😁)

Debord should absolutely be fired! Allen deserves more time. Defense is young this year and still not all his guys. Play calling on offense is horrible 

[milehiiu]

Let me preface this by saying that I like Coach Allen.  Now.... having said that, just as a basketball coach, I feel a football coach, should be allowed at minimum.... a four year recruiting cycle, to imprint his kind of players on his team. Using that as a base, time is running out.  IMHO, Coach Allen should be allowed at least one more year at IU.  In terms of coaching support, like many of you have said, Coach Allen may be forced to have some difficult decisions to make at the end of the season.  So, no. Coach Allen should not be fired.... yet.