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Should Tom Allen be fired?


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10 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I actually think they should eliminate about 20 bowl games because bowls should be a reward for a good season and 6-6 is not a good season.

I agree 100%. I was visiting with one of the top espn football producers and we had a long discussion just about the bowl games. It is an amazing financial structure. The bowl games do not rely on attendance. There are a lot of factors, but the advertising covers everything. ESPN virtually owns the bowl games and they will keep adding Bowl games as long as they have a sponsor and that sponsor buys the advertising. They do not care about the stadium occupancy.

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On 11/13/2018 at 8:16 AM, Seeking6 said:

Here's a quote from Pat Forde this morning on IU football and specifically Tom Allen. Don't think I've ready or heard anyone say it better.

 

Trajectory: Steady-ish. Indiana football perpetually churns along on its little hamster wheel of sub-mediocrity, never really getting anywhere despite all the exertion. Staying ahead of the Rutgers-level Big Ten programs is attainable, but ascending to compete with the elite of the league’s East Division is asking an awful lot. Allen is no different from many of his predecessors, an inexpensive promotion from within who offers little promise of fundamentally shifting the program’s paradigm. He is a thematic fit with the school’s limited football aspirations.

That is a great analysis. Texas AM fired their coach last year, were not good, got a good coach who plays players and adapts to the ability he has, and he has his team hanging with LSU. AM is a second level school in Texas, behind Texas, and they still get it done. Indiana is a flagship state school, the AD just has to demand excellence and go get a real quality coach.

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5 minutes ago, Demunn said:

This was a sentimental Bill Lynch type hire. The question is whether Allen gets 4 years as Lynch did. So many others available when this hire was made..  Cut bait now before you have to start giving away tickets again.

It is always easy to fire coached but it is harder to hire that home run hire we are looking for so you do you want us to hire.

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On 11/14/2018 at 4:56 PM, hoosierdaddy1020 said:

I have, and I get that people are frustrated. I guess my response would be this: 

If you fire him and somehow bring in a decent coach (which would be difficult for the reason I mentioned), we'd probably experience transfers and the loss of recruits. Does the fan base start calling for this new coaches head if he isn't going bowling in yr 2? yr 3? At some point you have to let someone get a system in place. I want 8+ wins as much as the next fan, but we have talent and if he brings in a dc and gets a new oc, I like our situation. Maybe I'm in the minority. 

He has no idea what he is doing. You can’t make a high school coach a college coach. Our wins have decreased in quality, players have already left or transferred, he brings in people nobody else wants because they have a tie to Indiana, he is going to turn the program into a local juco program. You can wait and see, it is coming, or we can make a change and hold him to a standard we would hold anyone being paid millions to run a company.

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CTA won’t be let go.  Fred has control over this guy and that’s all that matters.  As long as this AD and the current president is around they will pick coaches they can control over big names and big egos.  They do not want another Bob Knight hire in any sport.  Also right now winning is second to bringing in money, and IU is bringing in a truckload in all areas.  Until the money stops or a change in direction at the top is in place we will not see a change.

To be clear of course AD Glass would prefer a winning team.  I fully expect him to want changes to the football coaching staff.  But the last thing Glass is going to do is bring in a firey vet or big ego up and comer.  That’s not how things are done by this regime.

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I know there was a few of us on another board beating the drum for Mike Leach years ago after Texas Tech situation.  All I know is  major changes need to be addressed with our offense. Recruiting has never been higher. Facilities never better. But fan support is waning again to the point where yesterday in the 2nd half of the Bucket game people at the bar were asking to flip tv to Michigan/Ohio St in Indy. Should never happen.

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Seriously, what better quality wins did we have before Allen?

We had ONE win you could argue is better quality, and that was against Missouri.  I don't believe we went to a bowl that year, though.

Wilson reinvigorated the program, but it has been better under Allen than it ever was under Wilson.  We had a good offense, but we had absolutely no defense at all.  Wilson left us in bad positions relative to the o-line and quarterback after he left, and he ran off a lot of talent all over the roster in his last couple years.  It's no surprise that those are two areas IU has struggled in since.

The doom and gloom is absolutely absurd.  IU is consistently better now than it has been since Mallory in 1994. Go look it up if you don't believe me; I did.  The team only looks to be better next year, and everyone is complaining about Allen being a "high school coach" or moaning about the coaching search because we've been on the cusp of making a bowl in both of Allen's first years but haven't gotten over that hump.

Since those two years we went to a bowl, consequently Allen's first two, We are playing better teams in our non-conference, Michigan has gotten better, Michigan State has gotten better, Penn State has gotten better, and Purdue has improved immensely.  Since Hazell left West Lafayette, the West is actually worse overall than it was before Brohm arrived.  All people want to do is say look what Brohm did, but all the other circumstances are just totally ignored.

Considering we barely made a bowl those two years under Wilson by beating a horrible Purdue team, I can safely say that all this talk is ridiculous.  Why would everyone want to keep doing what IU has done for the last two decades when we have a chance to turn the corner with Allen and be consistently improved?  You have to give him at least another year or two to establish his philosophy with his players.  This was literally the first year he really had a chance to bring in players for his coaching philosophy.

I'm also sick and tired of hearing the snarky "where is the strength and conditioning?"  That will take more than one off-season to show up team-wide. 2-3 years minimum on that.

Since Allen arrived, IU is more competitive day in and day out than at any other time since Mallory.  We look to be better next year, and Allen has already hinted that he's looking at making changes to his coaching staff.  He's bringing in better recruiting classes, recruiting positions of need, and bringing in a lot of talented kids from Florida.  We've struggled in some spots this year, and, yeah, I honestly was hoping we could win 7 this year, but I'm not going to demonize Fred Glass and Tom Allen because my hopes turned out not to be realistic.

In fact, I'm already excited about next year, and at least I can objectively see this team is headed in the right direction.

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13 minutes ago, rogue3542 said:

Seriously, what better quality wins did we have before Allen?

We had ONE win you could argue is better quality, and that was against Missouri.  I don't believe we went to a bowl that year, though.

Wilson reinvigorated the program, but it has been better under Allen than it ever was under Wilson.  We had a good offense, but we had absolutely no defense at all.  Wilson left us in bad positions relative to the o-line and quarterback after he left, and he ran off a lot of talent all over the roster in his last couple years.  It's no surprise that those are two areas IU has struggled in since.

The doom and gloom is absolutely absurd.  IU is consistently better now than it has been since Mallory in 1994. Go look it up if you don't believe me; I did.  The team only looks to be better next year, and everyone is complaining about Allen being a "high school coach" or moaning about the coaching search because we've been on the cusp of making a bowl in both of Allen's first years but haven't gotten over that hump.

Since those two years we went to a bowl, consequently Allen's first two, We are playing better teams in our non-conference, Michigan has gotten better, Michigan State has gotten better, Penn State has gotten better, and Purdue has improved immensely.  Since Hazell left West Lafayette, the West is actually worse overall than it was before Brohm arrived.  All people want to do is say look what Brohm did, but all the other circumstances are just totally ignored.

Considering we barely made a bowl those two years under Wilson by beating a horrible Purdue team, I can safely say that all this talk is ridiculous.  Why would everyone want to keep doing what IU has done for the last two decades when we have a chance to turn the corner with Allen and be consistently improved?  You have to give him at least another year or two to establish his philosophy with his players.  This was literally the first year he really had a chance to bring in players for his coaching philosophy.

I'm also sick and tired of hearing the snarky "where is the strength and conditioning?"  That will take more than one off-season to show up team-wide. 2-3 years minimum on that.

Since Allen arrived, IU is more competitive day in and day out than at any other time since Mallory.  We look to be better next year, and Allen has already hinted that he's looking at making changes to his coaching staff.  He's bringing in better recruiting classes, recruiting positions of need, and bringing in a lot of talented kids from Florida.  We've struggled in some spots this year, and, yeah, I honestly was hoping we could win 7 this year, but I'm not going to demonize Fred Glass and Tom Allen because my hopes turned out not to be realistic.

In fact, I'm already excited about next year, and at least I can objectively see this team is headed in the right direction.

I understand and agree to an extent your post. I appreciate it's macro view. One thing is though. What organization or business doesn't have a reasonable minimum expectations (bowl eligibility)? 78 schools will go to bowls. We won't be one. Do 78 other schools spend more $? Better facilities? Better universities? 

I mean I'm looking at the 2019 schedule and unless changes are made on offense.....I'll be typing the same thing again this time next year because we won't be eligible for a bowl. I see 4-8, maybe 5-7 at best again.

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9 minutes ago, Kodos said:

Most of those bowl teams don't play in the Big Ten East. We have little room for error until we can get over the top against OSU, Michigan, Penn State, and MSU.

Well, until something changes we are gonna have to deal with that.  Where we lost out this year was against Iowa, Minnesota, and Purdue.  

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53 minutes ago, rogue3542 said:

Seriously, what better quality wins did we have before Allen?

We had ONE win you could argue is better quality, and that was against Missouri.  I don't believe we went to a bowl that year, though.

Wilson reinvigorated the program, but it has been better under Allen than it ever was under Wilson.  We had a good offense, but we had absolutely no defense at all.  Wilson left us in bad positions relative to the o-line and quarterback after he left, and he ran off a lot of talent all over the roster in his last couple years.  It's no surprise that those are two areas IU has struggled in since.

The doom and gloom is absolutely absurd.  IU is consistently better now than it has been since Mallory in 1994. Go look it up if you don't believe me; I did.  The team only looks to be better next year, and everyone is complaining about Allen being a "high school coach" or moaning about the coaching search because we've been on the cusp of making a bowl in both of Allen's first years but haven't gotten over that hump.

Since those two years we went to a bowl, consequently Allen's first two, We are playing better teams in our non-conference, Michigan has gotten better, Michigan State has gotten better, Penn State has gotten better, and Purdue has improved immensely.  Since Hazell left West Lafayette, the West is actually worse overall than it was before Brohm arrived.  All people want to do is say look what Brohm did, but all the other circumstances are just totally ignored.

Considering we barely made a bowl those two years under Wilson by beating a horrible Purdue team, I can safely say that all this talk is ridiculous.  Why would everyone want to keep doing what IU has done for the last two decades when we have a chance to turn the corner with Allen and be consistently improved?  You have to give him at least another year or two to establish his philosophy with his players.  This was literally the first year he really had a chance to bring in players for his coaching philosophy.

I'm also sick and tired of hearing the snarky "where is the strength and conditioning?"  That will take more than one off-season to show up team-wide. 2-3 years minimum on that.

Since Allen arrived, IU is more competitive day in and day out than at any other time since Mallory.  We look to be better next year, and Allen has already hinted that he's looking at making changes to his coaching staff.  He's bringing in better recruiting classes, recruiting positions of need, and bringing in a lot of talented kids from Florida.  We've struggled in some spots this year, and, yeah, I honestly was hoping we could win 7 this year, but I'm not going to demonize Fred Glass and Tom Allen because my hopes turned out not to be realistic.

In fact, I'm already excited about next year, and at least I can objectively see this team is headed in the right direction.

Agree to large extent here.  Glass did put the program in this position by the way CTA was hired.  We have to recognize that CTA is a HC who is having to learn on the job..  My only caveat in keeping him requires that he make the move to being the CEO now..  He needs to set his vision for the type of offense and defense that he wants to run.  He has to reevaluate his assistant coaches and hold them accountable.  OC, special teams, OL coach.  Fire those underperforming.  If he shows no willingness to make changes then CTA has to go now not later.   

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1 hour ago, Seeking6 said:

 

I mean I'm looking at the 2019 schedule and unless changes are made on offense.....I'll be typing the same thing again this time next year because we won't be eligible for a bowl. I see 4-8, maybe 5-7 at best again.

True that.  @Nebraska, @Purdue, Northwestern.  Should go 3-0 in the non-con.  

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36 minutes ago, FWIUFan said:

Agree to large extent here.  Glass did put the program in this position by the way CTA was hired.  We have to recognize that CTA is a HC who is having to learn on the job..  My only caveat in keeping him requires that he make the move to being the CEO now..  He needs to set his vision for the type of offense and defense that he wants to run.  He has to reevaluate his assistant coaches and hold them accountable.  OC, special teams, OL coach.  Fire those underperforming.  If he shows no willingness to make changes then CTA has to go now not later.   

I definitely agree. Allen has to make changes. If he doesn't and just keeps status quo, that's a big problem, and I don't think we will see the kind of improvement we need. Most immediate needs are d and o coordinators. Allen can't be both; he needs to get someone else running the d so he can be THE coach. In this era of multitasking, I've also subscribed to, "To do two things at once is to do neither."

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Would you have fired Kirk Farentz after two years since he was 4-19 his first two years.

Would you have fired Pat Fitzerald after two years since he was 10-14 after two years.

It is always easy for fans to say fire the coach but never think about who you are going to replace that coach.  No established coach or big name coach who is looking for a job will ever come to IU because of the pathetic support and our lack of history on football.

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I think it’s pretty clear most of us expect Allen to be back.  But it will continue to be doom and gloom if he doesn’t make changes to the coaching staff and start being a head coach.  This team clearly needs discipline and that starts with him.  The poor tackling reminds me of the Lynch years and that disturbs me but the defense was top 10 in causing turnovers in the FBS.  As we have all said for years finally winning and consistent winning is the only cure for the discord.

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4 hours ago, rico said:

Well, until something changes we are gonna have to deal with that.  Where we lost out this year was against Iowa, Minnesota, and Purdue.  

Yes, you're absolutely correct.  We missed going to a bowl by one game.  ONE game!!  So let's fire the coach and start the entire bleeping process over...AGAIN!!  Right...I REALLY like that idea.

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I just listened to the post game presser.  

Allen all but said he’s going to put in a defensive coordinator.  It will allow him to “coach the players and coach the coaches.”   I applaud that. He’s said putting in the defensive game plan absorbs a lot of his time.  This may be a big plus for a variety of reasons.  One, his attention won’t be so one-sided and this will allow him to develop bigger picture issues much better.  

He has said many negative things about the offense.  Hopefully he will do what he needs to do at the offensive coordinator position.  Ideally, Debord can resign and we get smarter with play calls.  

Mike Hart was a great hire. Gotta give Allen credit there.  I’m not sure if he’s ready but maybe move him to coordinator.  We know the players are drawn to him.  This guy may just be a future head coach.  He’s wired that way.  My only question is how much of the passing game he’s learned?   I’d give him a raise too.  

Give Brohm credit with his play calling.  We could use somebody who can keep defenses off balance while also exploiting weaknesses in the defenses, which changes week to week.  We haven’t done either the past two years.  

I would honestly take a good luck at specials coordinator.  With better specials we may have gone to bowls the last two years.    

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3 hours ago, jv1972iu said:

Texas Tech and North Carolina fired their HC's.  Guess we could go after them.  They're bound to be better than Allen.  I think TT fired Kingsbury after 6 seasons and UNC gave Fedora 7.  No doubt they'll be able to turn IU around by season 3...don't you think??

Fedora went 8-4 in his first season at Chapel Hill and took the Heels to 4 bowls in his first 5 years.  Kingsbury was 8-5 his first season with a bowl win.  3 bowls in 6 years.  

And what exactly is your point?

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2 minutes ago, rico said:

Fedora went 8-4 in his first season at Chapel Hill and took the Heels to 4 bowls in his first 5 years.  Kingsbury was 8-5 his first season with a bowl win.  3 bowls in 6 years.  

And what exactly is your point?

Kingsbury overall record at TT is 36-40 and I don't want any more offensive guys who run the up tempo spread offense.

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1 hour ago, rico said:

Fedora went 8-4 in his first season at Chapel Hill and took the Heels to 4 bowls in his first 5 years.  Kingsbury was 8-5 his first season with a bowl win.  3 bowls in 6 years.  

And what exactly is your point?

Just that those guys were given time.  I believe Allen deserves time...to make changes as many have requested.  But am I correct in thinking that you would take either of these guys ?  And how much time would you give them if they went 5-7 for two years?

 

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