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CauseThatsMyDJ

Should Tom Allen be fired?

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Kingsbury had the state of Texas to recruit from. Sure, lots of competition but an abundance of talent to choose from. 

Never was a fan of Fedora. 

Make Hart the OC. Just like they promoted Allen to HC, stay consistent and promote from within. 

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37 minutes ago, jv1972iu said:

Just that those guys were given time.  I believe Allen deserves time...to make changes as many have requested.  But am I correct in thinking that you would take either of these guys ?  And how much time would you give them if they went 5-7 for two years?

 

I never said I would take either of these guys.  I am just saying they came in and won right away.

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16 minutes ago, rico said:

I never said I would take either of these guys.  I am just saying they came in and won right away.

Okay.  Fair enough.  I made a mistake.  I thought you would take almost anyone over Allen and that you wanted him fired.  My error.

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6 minutes ago, jv1972iu said:

Okay.  Fair enough.  I made a mistake.  I thought you would take almost anyone over Allen and that you wanted him fired.  My error.

Let's just say I ain't happy with Allen...and you are fine.

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7 hours ago, BobSaccamanno said:

I just listened to the post game presser.  

Allen all but said he’s going to put in a defensive coordinator.  It will allow him to “coach the players and coach the coaches.”   I applaud that. He’s said putting in the defensive game plan absorbs a lot of his time.  This may be a big plus for a variety of reasons.  One, his attention won’t be so one-sided and this will allow him to develop bigger picture issues much better.  

He has said many negative things about the offense.  Hopefully he will do what he needs to do at the offensive coordinator position.  Ideally, Debord can resign and we get smarter with play calls.  

Mike Hart was a great hire. Gotta give Allen credit there.  I’m not sure if he’s ready but maybe move him to coordinator.  We know the players are drawn to him.  This guy may just be a future head coach.  He’s wired that way.  My only question is how much of the passing game he’s learned?   I’d give him a raise too.  

Give Brohm credit with his play calling.  We could use somebody who can keep defenses off balance while also exploiting weaknesses in the defenses, which changes week to week.  We haven’t done either the past two years.  

I would honestly take a good luck at specials coordinator.  With better specials we may have gone to bowls the last two years.    

I posted it in another thread, but I see Allen promoting/hiring someone he's familiar with so it can still be Allen's defense. It can still be Allen's vision and plans, but a DC could take over a lot of the duties to free up Allen to do a lot more.

I predict Wommack to DC, Inge to LB (or let go and bring in LB coach), and Allen to special teams.

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On 11/24/2018 at 7:02 PM, rico said:

Well enjoy watching Purdue play in a bowl.

What cracks me up is that the Toiletmakers were one game better in the season and their fans are literally willing to overpay to keep their coach. But for two big Rondale Moore catches, IU is bowl eligible and Purdue is 5-7 and probably still begging their coach to stay.

I know that's simplistic analysis, but I don't think IU is as far away from success as some seem to think.

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5 hours ago, FKIM01 said:

What cracks me up is that the Toiletmakers were one game better in the season and their fans are literally willing to overpay to keep their coach. But for two big Rondale Moore catches, IU is bowl eligible and Purdue is 5-7 and probably still begging their coach to stay.

I know that's simplistic analysis, but I don't think IU is as far away from success as some seem to think.

Well if I was a Purdue fan, I would be thinking how close a 9-3 or a 10-2 record was.  They lost 4 games by a total of 11 pts.

 

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32 minutes ago, FKIM01 said:

Ahhh...moral victories. I could see Purdue fans being happy with those.

No, that is how close they were to playing on New Year's Day.  We weren't.  That being said they didn't have to go through the UM, MSU, PSU, OSU gauntlet either.  FWIW next year they play @PSU and have Maryland and Indiana at home.  

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On 11/25/2018 at 7:14 AM, rogue3542 said:

Seriously, what better quality wins did we have before Allen?

We had ONE win you could argue is better quality, and that was against Missouri.  I don't believe we went to a bowl that year, though.

Wilson reinvigorated the program, but it has been better under Allen than it ever was under Wilson.  We had a good offense, but we had absolutely no defense at all.  Wilson left us in bad positions relative to the o-line and quarterback after he left, and he ran off a lot of talent all over the roster in his last couple years.  It's no surprise that those are two areas IU has struggled in since.

The doom and gloom is absolutely absurd.  IU is consistently better now than it has been since Mallory in 1994. Go look it up if you don't believe me; I did.  The team only looks to be better next year, and everyone is complaining about Allen being a "high school coach" or moaning about the coaching search because we've been on the cusp of making a bowl in both of Allen's first years but haven't gotten over that hump.

Since those two years we went to a bowl, consequently Allen's first two, We are playing better teams in our non-conference, Michigan has gotten better, Michigan State has gotten better, Penn State has gotten better, and Purdue has improved immensely.  Since Hazell left West Lafayette, the West is actually worse overall than it was before Brohm arrived.  All people want to do is say look what Brohm did, but all the other circumstances are just totally ignored.

Considering we barely made a bowl those two years under Wilson by beating a horrible Purdue team, I can safely say that all this talk is ridiculous.  Why would everyone want to keep doing what IU has done for the last two decades when we have a chance to turn the corner with Allen and be consistently improved?  You have to give him at least another year or two to establish his philosophy with his players.  This was literally the first year he really had a chance to bring in players for his coaching philosophy.

I'm also sick and tired of hearing the snarky "where is the strength and conditioning?"  That will take more than one off-season to show up team-wide. 2-3 years minimum on that.

Since Allen arrived, IU is more competitive day in and day out than at any other time since Mallory.  We look to be better next year, and Allen has already hinted that he's looking at making changes to his coaching staff.  He's bringing in better recruiting classes, recruiting positions of need, and bringing in a lot of talented kids from Florida.  We've struggled in some spots this year, and, yeah, I honestly was hoping we could win 7 this year, but I'm not going to demonize Fred Glass and Tom Allen because my hopes turned out not to be realistic.

In fact, I'm already excited about next year, and at least I can objectively see this team is headed in the right direction.

Uh, we went to bowl games, took Michigan to overtime at home, then beat Mstate, and Purdue the following year and went to a bowl that Allen blew, and since then our really good stats come at the cost of bringing in very weak high school teams. We were on the path to turning things around and have gone back to below average. We had a very favorable schedule this year, had a better online and much better back, even the strong teams in the conference were off quite a bit, and failed to make any headway. If that is what creates excitement then people will drop with heart attacks if we get rid of the high school coach and get a real personality that they players want to play for. Wilson was close to that buthis fatal flaw was being a control nut and not delegating. Sabin type team management is an absolute necessity if you are going to turn things around. The best thing about next year is a Pen will take over at QB and he won’t be controllable. In the mean time, hold the coach and AD to the same standards we hold the players to.

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2 minutes ago, Payday said:

Uh, we went to bowl games, took Michigan to overtime at home, then beat Mstate, and Purdue the following year and went to a bowl that Allen blew, and since then our really good stats come at the cost of bringing in very weak high school teams. We were on the path to turning things around and have gone back to below average. We had a very favorable schedule this year, had a better online and much better back, even the strong teams in the conference were off quite a bit, and failed to make any headway. If that is what creates excitement then people will drop with heart attacks if we get rid of the high school coach and get a real personality that they players want to play for. Wilson was close to that buthis fatal flaw was being a control nut and not delegating. Sabin type team management is an absolute necessity if you are going to turn things around. The best thing about next year is a Pen will take over at QB and he won’t be controllable. In the mean time, hold the coach and AD to the same standards we hold the players to.

We beat Michigan State when they were 3-9, and Purdue was still coached by Hazell.

Did Wilson also blow the bowl the previous year?

What high school teams are we playing?  The only teams we even PLAYED this year that aren't bowl bound are Maryland, Rutgers, and Ball State.  Maryland almost made a bowl and were one bad pass away from beating OSU.  FIU and VA are both solid teams.

Our schedule is harder than it was when we went to both our bowls.  It's a pretty objective fact.

 

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4 hours ago, Payday said:

Uh, we went to bowl games, took Michigan to overtime at home, then beat Mstate, and Purdue the following year and went to a bowl that Allen blew, and since then our really good stats come at the cost of bringing in very weak high school teams. We were on the path to turning things around and have gone back to below average. We had a very favorable schedule this year, had a better online and much better back, even the strong teams in the conference were off quite a bit, and failed to make any headway. If that is what creates excitement then people will drop with heart attacks if we get rid of the high school coach and get a real personality that they players want to play for. Wilson was close to that buthis fatal flaw was being a control nut and not delegating. Sabin type team management is an absolute necessity if you are going to turn things around. The best thing about next year is a Pen will take over at QB and he won’t be controllable. In the mean time, hold the coach and AD to the same standards we hold the players to.

We went to bowl games??  You make it sound like we were regular bowl game participants.  Ahhh, we weren't.

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5 hours ago, rogue3542 said:

We beat Michigan State when they were 3-9, and Purdue was still coached by Hazell.

Did Wilson also blow the bowl the previous year?

What high school teams are we playing?  The only teams we even PLAYED this year that aren't bowl bound are Maryland, Rutgers, and Ball State.  Maryland almost made a bowl and were one bad pass away from beating OSU.  FIU and VA are both solid teams.

Our schedule is harder than it was when we went to both our bowls.  It's a pretty objective fact.

 

Actually, we beat Michigan State when they were in the top 20 and it started their skid. Last year we paid a poor team to come in and take the Florida spot, i think it cost us a million, and there are three high schools around here that could beat them. Maybe more. As for schedule toughness, you might want to look at the teams we played last year that were ranked at one time compared to this year. In fact, Wilson’s last season saw us playing either four or five top 20 teams i think, but it has been a long time since i looked at it. The teams this year, conference and non conference, were all pretty weak compared to the big ten in most years. 

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Well we can rehash history and spar back and forth.  It is what it is....no bowl and another disappointing season.  As always I look forward to next year and as always I will be cheering on my Hoosiers.

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34 minutes ago, rico said:

Well we can rehash history and spar back and forth.  It is what it is....no bowl and another disappointing season.  As always I look forward to next year and as always I will be cheering on my Hoosiers.

That is the truth. I just wish I saw a competitiveness from the top, a refusal to accept average and refusal to wait and see if this guy can prove himself. It is, in my mind, the difference between a top tier program and one that struggles. A top tier program does not reach for a coach, it goes and gets a proven commodity and pays accordingly and then holds him to a higher standards. It does not wait and see if the coach can prove the AD wise by eventually winning. It is just a difference in philosophy I guess. 

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55 minutes ago, Payday said:

That is the truth. I just wish I saw a competitiveness from the top, a refusal to accept average and refusal to wait and see if this guy can prove himself. It is, in my mind, the difference between a top tier program and one that struggles. A top tier program does not reach for a coach, it goes and gets a proven commodity and pays accordingly and then holds him to a higher standards. It does not wait and see if the coach can prove the AD wise by eventually winning. It is just a difference in philosophy I guess. 

I agree with your philosophy.  

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1 hour ago, rico said:

Well we can rehash history and spar back and forth.  It is what it is....no bowl and another disappointing season.  As always I look forward to next year and as always I will be cheering on my Hoosiers.

I always feel the same way. I fully support CTA as our head coach at IU....With that being said, I want him to be the head coach and not part of the "too many chiefs...." factor. I think it is well drawn conclusion that everyone on here wants at least a new OC and any other under-performing coach on staff this year. 

I keep wondering...... When do our voices and opinions begin to matter?

When does Fred Glass feel the heat and start listening to the fans legitimate concerns?

Fred and coach Allen have to feel the pressure from the success of Purdue and coach Brohm. Does it even help to e-mail Glass and Allen?

I want to see IU succeed like other former bottom feeder teams. What can we do productively as a fan base to help bend their ears and put a burr in their saddles?

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1 hour ago, Payday said:

That is the truth. I just wish I saw a competitiveness from the top, a refusal to accept average and refusal to wait and see if this guy can prove himself. It is, in my mind, the difference between a top tier program and one that struggles. A top tier program does not reach for a coach, it goes and gets a proven commodity and pays accordingly and then holds him to a higher standards. It does not wait and see if the coach can prove the AD wise by eventually winning. It is just a difference in philosophy I guess. 

Would you put Bill Mallory in the category of proven commodity?  Not being argumentative, but just wondering/curious if he met the definition.

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18 minutes ago, jv1972iu said:

Would you put Bill Mallory in the category of proven commodity?  Not being argumentative, but just wondering/curious if he met the definition.

I would.

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41 minutes ago, rico said:

I would.

Yeah...me too.  I think most IU football fans would be thrilled with another Coach Mallory.

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31 minutes ago, jv1972iu said:

Yeah...me too.  I think most IU football fans would be thrilled with another Coach Mallory.

I would be happy with Tom Allen if he would actually make some adjustments. They could of had an ok year if he would of benched Ramsey earlier and made Deford throw it deep. The defense and ST were both terrible and they still almost went to a bowl, played PSU, PU, and Michigan pretty tough. The Minny game was a joke. Next year will be the litmus test. But their schedule is brutal. 

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4 hours ago, jv1972iu said:

Yeah...me too.  I think most IU football fans would be thrilled with another Coach Mallory.

Coach Mal won everywhere he was at.

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Would anyone be happy if we landed Neal Brown the HC at Troy? To me he is an up and coming coach and comes from an offensive back ground. Assisted at Texas Tech, UK, and has had very good success at Troy. I think Allen is a hard nosed coach that will keep the team competitive and coach to keep them in games even against superior competition...but I don't see him having sustained success here unfortunately.

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35 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Would anyone be happy if we landed Neal Brown the HC at Troy? To me he is an up and coming coach and comes from an offensive back ground. Assisted at Texas Tech, UK, and has had very good success at Troy. I think Allen is a hard nosed coach that will keep the team competitive and coach to keep them in games even against superior competition...but I don't see him having sustained success here unfortunately.

I am all in on Urban Myer being out next coach LOL!!!!!!!!!!

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23 hours ago, IU Scott said:

I am all in on Urban Myer being out next coach LOL!!!!!!!!!!

I see him landing at ND in about 3 years once Chip wears out his welcome.

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