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6 hours ago, rico said:

Without getting into the lawyer stuff, many on here are aware of what I went through at tail end of July.  Brain surgery due to blunt force head trauma.  I have no idea what caused it.  The doctors can only guess that it was there for awhile.  But they cut and drilled into my skull.  The events are sketchy at best from my end.  I can only rely on my family and friends to fill in the voids.  So I will tell what I do know from my memory banks.  I was staying in Fort Wayne at a friend's house because I had several appointments there.  After the last appointment me and my friend went out to eat and then I packed and started heading home.  I knew I was out of beer and smokes on the drive, was going to stop somewhere and get some.  But my head starting spinning.  Don't remember getting home, but I did.  According to sources, a week later my daughter came over and found me unresponsive on the floor.  She called 911.  The next thing I know is that I wake up in the hospital with 15 staples in my head and two tubes sticking out of it.

So I take that concussion stuff pretty seriously now.

Disturbing story. I'm glad you're okay. So, were there cuts or bruises or anything to explain what might have happened?

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3 minutes ago, Mac said:

Disturbing story. I'm glad you're okay. So, were there cuts or bruises or anything to explain what might have happened?

Thank you, and no nothing to indicate anything out of the ordinary as far as marks on my head.  All I can say is take these concussions very seriously.  I about died.

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1 hour ago, rico said:

Thank you, and no nothing to indicate anything out of the ordinary as far as marks on my head.  All I can say is take these concussions very seriously.  I about died.

You don't remember hitting your head? Is your wife a light sleeper? Fouls wanted me to ask. :coffee:. Glad you are now ok, scary story.

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Thanks and I’m glad your ok Rico. I agree never be too careful. My brother had cancer discovered after hitting his head. Certainly something you want to be careful with. That said you can’t stop living out of fear. Kid says he is alright...got to let him live. We’ve all had concussions before...most not serious. In the end you can only go by what the young man is telling you how he feels. It isn’t like he is begging to go back into the same game. I trust Robert with his own body. IU needs to as well. That said sounds like he has had symptoms until now so I won’t question it too much.

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7 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Thanks and I’m glad your ok Rico. I agree never be too careful. My brother had cancer discovered after hitting his head. Certainly something you want to be careful with. That said you can’t stop living out of fear. Kid says he is alright...got to let him live. We’ve all had concussions before...most not serious. In the end you can only go by what the young man is telling you how he feels. It isn’t like he is begging to go back into the same game. I trust Robert with his own body. IU needs to as well. That said sounds like he has had symptoms until now so I won’t question it too much.

I would not want that responsibility in my own hands.  The reasons are many.

The culture around injury and head injuries is slow to change, but it is changing.  I am happy IU seems to be setting what might be a precedent.

Youth and injury is a hard thing to begin with.  Throw in the added pressure to perform from self and others, fans wanting wins above all else, it may seem a good idea at the time to say 'I'm fine' and play.  When I was young, my articulation and expression of self, thoughts and feelings was greatly lacking (it's not much better as an adult).  Sure, everyone is different, but I would like to say the best interests of an individual athlete rest on medical standards or protocol.  I am glad that seems to be the case.

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10 minutes ago, PoHoosier said:

I would not want that responsibility in my own hands.  The reasons are many.

The culture around injury and head injuries is slow to change, but it is changing.  I am happy IU seems to be setting what might be a precedent.

Youth and injury is a hard thing to begin with.  Throw in the added pressure to perform from self and others, fans wanting wins above all else, it may seem a good idea at the time to say 'I'm fine' and play.  When I was young, my articulation and expression of self, thoughts and feelings was greatly lacking (it's not much better as an adult).  Sure, everyone is different, but I would like to say the best interests of an individual athlete rest on medical standards or protocol.  I am glad that seems to be the case.

As there should be...guess I just don’t know the protocol....NFL has one in a much more dangerous sport...IU should have one...just wonder if it is comparable to other programs and been written by doctors or by lawyers looking to protect their dollar. If the kid is symptom free and can pass a baseline physical that most programs have set in place...seems to me he is normal and ready to practice. Otherwise you aren’t doing anyone any good if there is no science behind holding them out. I think that is all people are complaining about. Are we protecting the kid (which no one will argue with) or from some future theoretical lawsuit or for optics after our football situation which if that is the case then we might as well shut down the program.

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1 minute ago, dgambill said:

As there should be...guess I just don’t know the protocol....NFL has one in a much more dangerous sport...IU should have one...just wonder if it is comparable to other programs and been written by doctors or by lawyers looking to protect their dollar. If the kid is symptom free and can pass a baseline physical that most programs have set in place...seems to me he is normal and ready to practice. Otherwise you aren’t doing anyone any good if there is no science behind holding them out. I think that is all people are complaining about. Are we protecting the kid (which no one will argue with) or from some future theoretical lawsuit which if that is the case then we might as well shut down the program.

The counter to the lawsuit fear would be a lawsuit claiming unnecessarily 'hurt draft stock'.  Sure, that fight may never arise as the point you mention.  Add in that our current players in this protocol are in no one's draft projections, my point is baseless, should the injury happen.....  ok, not saying any more.

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9 hours ago, dgambill said:

As there should be...guess I just don’t know the protocol....NFL has one in a much more dangerous sport...IU should have one...just wonder if it is comparable to other programs and been written by doctors or by lawyers looking to protect their dollar. If the kid is symptom free and can pass a baseline physical that most programs have set in place...seems to me he is normal and ready to practice. Otherwise you aren’t doing anyone any good if there is no science behind holding them out. I think that is all people are complaining about. Are we protecting the kid (which no one will argue with) or from some future theoretical lawsuit or for optics after our football situation which if that is the case then we might as well shut down the program.

Since you're clamoring for science, do you have any evidence to support your hypothesis that IU is holding him out just because a lawyer told them to? 

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8 hours ago, rico said:

With my experience, I would imagine these kids are getting regular CT's to make sure everything looks alright with their brains.  But always keep in mind that multiple concussions in a short period of time isn't good.

Right, this is not a lawyer decision it is entirely a medical decision on regular evaluations.

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My thoughts on concussions and sitting the players out has definitely evolved with some informing posts over the past couple days. Initials thought, was what the heck is taking so long for these kids to get back in...it was just a bump to the head??

Now, the more I think, the more I realize the head should be a wince moment just like a leg injury is. Injury to the brain is about as big as it gets and should be treated as such. Assuming this is medically driven and not solely fear driven from Kevin Wilson days, I'm all for the shift even though it means we have key guys sitting on the bench like Phin. 

As Po said earlier, these kids may want to say and do a lot of things that they really shouldn't be doing, but if the symptoms/scans say otherwise that should trump any feelings. 

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3 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

Since you're clamoring for science, do you have any evidence to support your hypothesis that IU is holding him out just because a lawyer told them to? 

I’m with everyone in protecting the kids...I think what if it was my own. What I don’t understand is what is the protocol? Is it set by NCAA like NFL has one. This shouldn’t be done by the schools. As it should have a standard set and not endanger some kid from coming back too soon. My whole point is I don’t honestly think there is one and if you leave it open for each school you are going to get varying degrees of treatment...and possibly nobody knows but one where a school like Indiana who had a history in another sport of not taking it serious enough now over compensating to make sure they don’t become the next Espn sports reporters article. If we don’t know enough to set a standard treatment recovery plan then to me we have to revert back to trusting the young man that if he has no further symptoms he is fine to go. Now it does sound like he was still suffering up until the other night because of the interviews of him not being himself. So I trust that. But when we have two concussions and guys out a month or more yet you don’t see that at other schools it does make you start to wonder. Hopefully people are right and this is the proper treatment. Hopefully it isn’t a knee jerk reaction to our football scandal. That is all. I want these kids to be safe...but if they are healthy I want them on the floor too.

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5 minutes ago, dgambill said:

I’m with everyone in protecting the kids...I think what if it was my own. What I don’t understand is what is the protocol? Is it set by NCAA like NFL has one. This shouldn’t be done by the schools. As it should have a standard set and not endanger some kid from coming back too soon. My whole point is I don’t honestly think there is one and if you leave it open for each school you are going to get varying degrees of treatment...and possibly nobody knows but one where a school like Indiana who had a history in another sport of not taking it serious enough now over compensating to make sure they don’t become the next Espn sports reporters article. If we don’t know enough to set a standard treatment recovery plan then to me we have to revert back to trusting the young man that if he has no further symptoms he is fine to go. Now it does sound like he was still suffering up until the other night because of the interviews of him not being himself. So I trust that. But when we have two concussions and guys out a month or more yet you don’t see that at other schools it does make you start to wonder. Hopefully people are right and this is the proper treatment. Hopefully it isn’t a knee jerk reaction to our football scandal. That is all. I want these kids to be safe...but if they are healthy I want them on the floor too.

You're making way too much sense. You should be banned until rugby season! 🙂

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Recalling several IU injuries through the years, that have had negative impacts on our team.  Feel free to add any of your own.

ALLEN HENDERSON.  Went down with a knee injury or "minor" ACL, I can't remember which.  IU was #1 at the time.  He did come back... but was never the same.  IU lost to Kansas in a Regional Semi-final.

SCOTT MAY.  Perhaps the most well known IU injury of all time. Broken Arm.  Did come back. Again, not the same. Another injury that probably cost IU another national title.

RANDY WITTMAN. Played two games for the then ranked #1 Hoosiers, before being diagnosed with a broken foot, that ended his season.

TED KITCHELL.  We talk about Zach and his back.  Ted's back was so bad that not only did he miss games.... he had to have surgery.

MIKE WOODSON. So, here we go again.  Back injury. Wittman goes down with a broken foot... and Woodson goes to the hospital for surgery on a bad back.

D.J. WHITE.  A guy genuinely loved by Hoosier fans.  Goes down with a broken foot after like the 5th game of the season, never to return.  IU's fortunes turn South, leading to the demise of Mike Davis.

MAURICE CREEK.  Perhaps the most heart rendering of all.  After scoring 31 points against Kentucky, as a freshman in an early season game.... goes down three times in subsequent years. Never was the same as when he started.  However, transfers to George Washington, where he leads that team, in his last year of being able to play, in scoring.  And as always, I think to myself : "What could have been. "

 

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3 hours ago, milehiiu said:

Recalling several IU injuries through the years, that have had negative impacts on our team.  Feel free to add any of your own.

ALLEN HENDERSON.  Went down with a knee injury or "minor" ACL, I can't remember which.  IU was #1 at the time.  He did come back... but was never the same.  IU lost to Kansas in a Regional Semi-final.

SCOTT MAY.  Perhaps the most well known IU injury of all time. Broken Arm.  Did come back. Again, not the same. Another injury that probably cost IU another national title.

RANDY WITTMAN. Played two games for the then ranked #1 Hoosiers, before being diagnosed with a broken foot, that ended his season.

TED KITCHELL.  We talk about Zach and his back.  Ted's back was so bad that not only did he miss games.... he had to have surgery.

MIKE WOODSON. So, here we go again.  Back injury. Wittman goes down with a broken foot... and Woodson goes to the hospital for surgery on a bad back.

D.J. WHITE.  A guy genuinely loved by Hoosier fans.  Goes down with a broken foot after like the 5th game of the season, never to return.  IU's fortunes turn South, leading to the demise of Mike Davis.

MAURICE CREEK.  Perhaps the most heart rendering of all.  After scoring 31 points against Kentucky, as a freshman in an early season game.... goes down three times in subsequent years. Never was the same as when he started.  However, transfers to George Washington, where he leads that team, in his last year of being able to play, in scoring.  And as always, I think to myself : "What could have been. "

 

Pat Graham the year before the Alan Henderson injury. We lost in the final four that year and I remember RMK later saying that had PG not been injured that season he thought we would have won the title. 

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10 minutes ago, Parakeet Jones said:

Pat Graham the year before the Alan Henderson injury. We lost in the final four that year and I remember RMK later saying that had PG not been injured that season he thought we would have won the title. 

Yep those back to back late season injuries still haunt me.

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I am all for taking care of these kids, and putting real life issues and player safety as the number 1 priority, and rightly so. However, my one observation is that IU can’t be the only school that players dive for loose balls and have collisions in practices. IU’s concussion protocol might be cutting edge and ahead of its time, and parents of in-state 5 stars should take note, but to me, it seems like our concussions and injuries as a whole are wildly disproportionate compared with 350 other D1 teams.

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56 minutes ago, Parakeet Jones said:

Pat Graham the year before the Alan Henderson injury. We lost in the final four that year and I remember RMK later saying that had PG not been injured that season he thought we would have won the title. 

I knew I would not be able to recall them all. And despite the consequence....thanks for the contribution. You have been great for so many years now.

And then there is Collin Hartman who worked himself back from multiple injuries and surgeries.

Collin Hartman and His Injuries

And  the above video link shows O.G. Going down. 

Hard to watch now, as it was then.

 

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11 minutes ago, milehiiu said:

I knew I would not be able to recall them all. And despite the consequence....thanks for the contribution. You have been great for so many years now.

And then there is Collin Hartman who worked himself back from multiple injuries and surgeries.

Collin Hartman and His Injuries

And  the above video link shows O.G. Going down. 

Hard to watch now, as it was then.

 

Coverdale's anlke in 02 was pretty tough/frustrating

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6 minutes ago, macomb hoosier said:

Coverdale's anlke in 02 was pretty tough/frustrating

YES !!!  I felt his pain as well. Thanks for the contribution as well.  Oh my... the injury list over the years, continues to grow. 

Talking about pain.  How about Juwan Morgan's shoulder that kept popping out... only for him to pop it in again, and return to action ?  Summer surgery, finally seemed to be the fix for him.... thank goodness. 

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