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8 minutes ago, Leathernecks said:

Less talented team?  It isn't like we were a 25 win team the year before, and there was all kind of drama and poor chemistry due to the noise surrounding Crean.  That year I compared it to was a dumpster fire of a team the last 2/3 of the season.

I don't care if they're shooters or not.  They almost all regressed from the last year of Crean to the first year of Miller.  Maybe it will be a trend and maybe it won't be, but for a coach that stresses good shots, that isn't a good sign no matter how people want to spin it.  Not saying it will continue or become a theme throughout his tenure, but it is a clear concern of mine at this point in time.  Hopefully I get proven wrong.

I’m not spinning anything. Last years team was less talented offensively than the team Crean’s last year. Name me one really good to great shooter on this years team other than Fitzner? Last year there wasn’t one and this year there is only Fitzner. Add to it last year that the guys had a new coach with a much, much different system to learn and the shooting is going to be worse.  Crean’s last year the team struggled defensively and with turnovers, but it had way more offensive talent. 

This is a Jimmy/Joe’s issue, not an X’s/O’s issue.  

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12 hours ago, Billingsley99 said:

My best FT shooter shot 91%  his Senior year. He only missed7 all year but 6 were with less than 2 sec on theclock. He hits 5 of the 6 we are 4-0 in those games. Instead we were 0-4.  Pressure many times is self inflicted or self induced. Every time he was who I wanted on the line and I was confident in him but for some reason...

I really think it's a by product of not working on it when a player is young. I dont get noticed hitting free throws but I do for dunking and crazy handles etc..

Nah.  It wasn't the pressure.  It was the coaching.  :coffee:

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8 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I’m not spinning anything. Last years team was less talented offensively than the team Crean’s last year. Name me one really good to great shooter on this years team other than Fitzner? Last year there wasn’t one and this year there is only Fitzner. Add to it last year that the guys had a new coach with a much, much different system to learn and the shooting is going to be worse.  Crean’s last year the team struggled defensively and with turnovers, but it had way more offensive talent. 

This is a Jimmy/Joe’s issue, not an X’s/O’s issue.  

I think this is pretty clearly right. The reason CAM brought Fitz in is because we lacked shooting. We’re still short on outside shooting, though Green can get it going and might as the season develops. Demez will be good by next season with more experience and Hunter will be healthy, and we’re still recruiting. I think we’ll get there but we are clearly still in need of more floor spacing 

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4 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

I think this is pretty clearly right. The reason CAM brought Fitz in is because we lacked shooting. We’re still short on outside shooting, though Green can get it going and might as the season develops. Demez will be good by next season with more experience and Hunter will be healthy, and we’re still recruiting. I think we’ll get there but we are clearly still in need of more floor spacing 

I’d also add that a guy like Phinisee will be much more comfortable next season so I’d expect him to be more consistent from the perimeter. 

But, if we lose Langford and only add Brooks, I’ll be really concerned about our shooting next season too. Not necessarily because of Archie or the staff other than they just haven’t brought in any shooters. 

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1 minute ago, BGleas said:

I’d also add that a guy like Phinisee will be much more comfortable next season so I’d expect him to be more consistent from the perimeter. 

But, if we lose Langford and only add Brooks, I’ll be really concerned about our shooting next season too. Not necessarily because of Archie or the staff other than they just haven’t brought in any shooters. 

The question is......do you really need shooters?

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27 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I’m not spinning anything. Last years team was less talented offensively than the team Crean’s last year. Name me one really good to great shooter on this years team other than Fitzner? Last year there wasn’t one and this year there is only Fitzner. Add to it last year that the guys had a new coach with a much, much different system to learn and the shooting is going to be worse.  Crean’s last year the team struggled defensively and with turnovers, but it had way more offensive talent. 

This is a Jimmy/Joe’s issue, not an X’s/O’s issue.  

Coming up with reasons statistics don't fit your idea is the definition of spinning things. I never brought up this year's team, yet you keep going back to it. I was just posting some things from last year.

I'm reminded why I never post on the BB forum anymore. I was hoping the honeymoon would be over so people could at least think critically about the season and the staff, but clearly not.

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5 minutes ago, rico said:

The question is......do you really need shooters?

Depends on how good you want to be. I’m not saying you need guys that can only shoot, like some of the guys Crean had (Roth, Zeisloft, even JBJ), but you do need guys at multiple positions that can shoot consistently from deep and hit open shots. Villanova often had 5guys on the court at a time last season that shot 38% or higher from 3. Michigan had shooters last season at multiple positions. 

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1 minute ago, Leathernecks said:

Coming up with reasons statistics don't fit your idea is the definition of spinning things. I never brought up this year's team, yet you keep going back to it. I was just posting some things from last year.

I'm reminded why I never post on the BB forum anymore. I was hoping the honeymoon would be over so people could at least think critically about the season and the staff, but clearly not.

I guess you don’t want to have a discussion, you just want us to praise your spreadsheet?

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2 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Depends on how good you want to be. I’m not saying you need guys that can only shoot, like some of the guys Crean had (Roth, Zeisloft, even JBJ), but you do need guys at multiple positions that can shoot consistently from deep and hit open shots. Villanova often had 5guys on the court at a time last season that shot 38% or higher from 3. Michigan had shooters last season at multiple positions. 

So you need 3-point shooters to succeed?

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4 minutes ago, Leathernecks said:

Coming up with reasons statistics don't fit your idea is the definition of spinning things. I never brought up this year's team, yet you keep going back to it. I was just posting some things from last year.

I'm reminded why I never post on the BB forum anymore. I was hoping the honeymoon would be over so people could at least think critically about the season and the staff, but clearly not.

Technically you did bring up this year’s team when you said “shooting is one of my concerns last year and this year”.  In all fairness, you can’t compare the 2016-2017 to the 2017-2018 year.  One was under Crean in a system that had been run for numerous years, with kids who weren’t expected to play a high level of defense.  The other year is in CAM’s first year, where he’s literally flipping everything upside down, teaching a new offensive and defensive system, and expecting the players to play a high level of defense.  Like @BGleas said, it’s a Jimmy/Joe thing.  

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14 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I guess you don’t want to have a discussion, you just want us to praise your spreadsheet?

Here's a spreadsheet we can all agree with.

Purdue

=

Little Brother

Kentucky

=

Cheat

Pitino

=

STD

IU

=

College Cup

IU

Does Not Equal

Bowl Game

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Just now, rico said:

Everybody on the team can shoot the 3.  Now how efficient is another story.

My bad, should have been more specific. Yes, I meant guys that can shoot it at a high level consistently, not just make a couple here and there if they’re wide open. Fitzner is the only guy on this roster an opposing coach would game plan specifically to not give up open 3’s too. 

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2 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Here's a spreadsheet we can all agree with.

Purdue

=

Little Brother

Kentucky

=

Cheat

Pitino

=

STD

IU

=

College Cup

IU

Does Not Equal

Bowl Game

I don’t know that I’d call that a spreadsheet. More like a simple chart you could make in Word. :coffee:

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Just now, BGleas said:

My bad, should have been more specific. Yes, I meant guys that can shoot it at a high level consistently, not just make a couple here and there if they’re wide open. Fitzner is the only guy on this roster an opposing coach would game plan specifically to not give up open 3’s too. 

That is what I was getting at.  We are an easy team to defend from the perimeter.

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