Penn St. Post game

[5fouls]

23 minutes ago, StLHoosier said:

, but free throws, for some, are the easiest thing to point out.

That and I also find that the smaller number on the scoreboard seems to lose the majority of the time.  

[kaustical]

9 hours ago, IUDan93 said:

If Moore hadn't made the one handed put back with and 1, we lose the game by one point.  So, I guess he made the game winning shot.  On a more serious note, we lost at Arkansas with a missed bunny and a fantom foul call, a game we should have won.  This game balances that one out, because PSU was 11-26 from the line.  All else equal, we lose this game 9 times out of ten because even Shaq can hit 14-26 from the line.  

I don't like to question Coach's decisions, forgot more than I have ever known, but in my mind, Cliff or Jake could have made a big difference against Gafford.                                                          

[rico]

28 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

That and I also find that the smaller number on the scoreboard seems to lose the majority of the time.  

Do the metrics guys concur?

[hoosiertildeath]

It was Penn State who beat Virginia Tech ( The team that beat Pee yew 89 to 84) Gotta love it !!

[RJPaisley]

7 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Thank you. The hyper criticism of Smith is getting like dog piling, looking only for the negative. Smith has great upside, and it's good to see he played strong defensively and in a way that helped us win.

Last yr it was Josh Newkirk who got picked apart; this yr it's Justin Smith.

[IUDan93]

1 hour ago, kaustical said:

I don't like to question Coach's decisions, forgot more than I have ever known, but in my mind, Cliff or Jake could have made a big difference against Gafford.                                                          

I agree with this, especially that CAM knows way more than me about basketball and his players.  

[Sapperin LA]

8 hours ago, SIHoosier26 said:

No trust me, he was awful.

Who kept Stevens well below his scoring average, no way was he awful! Archie is making Smith guard and play D, and he is answering that bell. Look at the entire game before disrespecting him, he doesn't deserve it!

[5 championships]

6 hours ago, RJPaisley said:

Last yr it was Josh Newkirk who got picked apart; this yr it's Justin Smith.

Smith is getting picked apart for good reason. His play this season has been very poor. It makes it worse when everyone was thinking he could break out big this year. All I ask is for him to quit being some soft around the rim. My gosh its hard to watch. 

[Hoosierhoopster]

2 hours ago, 5 championships said:

Smith is getting picked apart for good reason. His play this season has been very poor. It makes it worse when everyone was thinking he could break out big this year. All I ask is for him to quit being some soft around the rim. My gosh its hard to watch. 

Amazing how similar this is to the criticism of Wat as a soph. Pretty much the same. Then look what Wat became. 

Do you think CAM doesn’t know his players? Smith has had good moments, and yes he had 9 boards in this game. He clearly hasn’t put it all together yet, but the promise is there, and he helped in this game. 

[PoHoosier]

2 hours ago, 5 championships said:

Smith is getting picked apart for good reason. His play this season has been very poor. It makes it worse when everyone was thinking he could break out big this year. All I ask is for him to quit being some soft around the rim. My gosh its hard to watch. 

There is a big difference between picking apart a player vs constructive criticism.  Many posts that pile on say nothing good about him or his recent on court successes.  Even some of his success had been down played or dismissed outright.  This is the piling on that is disturbing.

Asking for him to go up strong at the rim is something I can agree with.  I am glad you had qualified what you deemed poor play.

Hopefully with his effort in practice earning him game time, he puts it together and becomes a key contributor at some point this season.  With some encouragement, I really believe he has the tools to do so.  The foundation has been laid with his recent defensive effort and rebounding.  He can build on that.

[SIHoosier26]

6 hours ago, Sapperin LA said:

Who kept Stevens well below his scoring average, no way was he awful! Archie is making Smith guard and play D, and he is answering that bell. Look at the entire game before disrespecting him, he doesn't deserve it!

You're right, despite the turnovers, soft play, lack of hustle, poor shot selection, and nonchalant attitude he's been absolutely terrific. 🙄  

Look I'm not going to sugarcoat anything, if a player is playing bad I'm going to say it and he has been playing bad. Doesn't mean I don't like him or cheer for him I just call it how I see it. Hopefully he starts playing better because with all the injuries this team needs him at his best to start reaching their potential. As of right now, his last few weeks aren't going to cut it on a championship team.

[5fouls]

22 hours ago, IUFLA said:

He also had 2 turnovers and 2 fouls in 7 minutes of action.

Look, I don't dismiss what the kid did, and I'm really happy for him. He did a couple of good things, and a couple of bad things. I hope he can improve and be a rotation guy at some point.

And he was in there because of foul trouble with Justin, Juwan, and De'Ron. He said so himself in the postgame.

One foul and one turnover came on the same moving screen.  I was listening on the radio, and Erik Suhr commented that, even though the call went against Moore, the blame was totally on Al for 'going to quickly'.  Essentially, he never gave Cliff the opportunity to get set.  So, take that away from him and you have 1 foul and 1 turnover in 7 minutes.  Hard to complain about one foul in that timeframe, and while you want the turnover line to be a goose egg, it's not totally out of line.

[5fouls]

I'm perfectly okay with Archie letting Justin try and play through his struggles.  He is an important part of the team.

I'm less okay with not rewarding other players for their hard work.  Cliff earned some 2nd half PT with his play in the first half.  And, surely, both Cliff and Jake are doing enough in practice to at least get in the game for a few minutes when it is a blowout.  Yes, I'm a sucker for guys at the end of the bench because I was one.  But, you will never convince me that having Romeo, Juwan, Al, Devonte, Fitz, etc., in the game is necessary when we are up 25 with 3 or 4 minutes left against Directional U.  Better yet, look for that 2-3 minute window to get those kids in that game with a chance to play with rotational guys in the first half to allow then an opportunity to play more meaningful minutes.  That can't hurt the team in games like that.  And, it sure can help down the road if foul trouble or injuries cause a problem.

[Feathery]

1 hour ago, SIHoosier26 said:

You're right, despite the turnovers, soft play, lack of hustle, poor shot selection, and nonchalant attitude he's been absolutely terrific. 🙄  

Look I'm not going to sugarcoat anything, if a player is playing bad I'm going to say it and he has been playing bad. Doesn't mean I don't like him or cheer for him I just call it how I see it. Hopefully he starts playing better because with all the injuries this team needs him at his best to start reaching their potential. As of right now, his last few weeks aren't going to cut it on a championship team.

Lack of hustle and nonchalant attitude? Smith has 9 rebounds. Rebounds are effort/hustle/desire. Smith was also the one who dove to the floor and got the ball at the end of the game. Hustle. Smith also got a foul earlier because he was hustling to get to the ball. Be critical but be accurate  

Look I’m not going to sugarcoat anything, when a poster is posting bad, I’m going to say it and he has been posting bad. Doesn’t mean I don’t like him or cheer for him to be a better poster, I just call it how I see it. Hopefully, he starts posting better because we are lacking posts from HTD!!!!!! (More posts HTD please) and we need this board to reach its fullest potential. As of his last few contributions, this guys posts aren’t going to cut it on a championship level message board. (Yes this is sarcasm if you didn’t realize, have a good day everyone)

[Muckraker]

Smith needs to be locked in Cook hall, and forced to watch endless loops of old Ted Kitchel films, until he learns to execute head-fakes, shot-fakes, and ball-fakes. Kitchel was a master at faking people till they fouled, and I think he had a 48mm vertical. 

[IUaic]

5 hours ago, PoHoosier said:

There is a big difference between picking apart a player vs constructive criticism.  Many posts that pile on say nothing good about him or his recent on court successes.  Even some of his success had been down played or dismissed outright.  This is the piling on that is disturbing.

Asking for him to go up strong at the rim is something I can agree with.  I am glad you had qualified what you deemed poor play.

Hopefully with his effort in practice earning him game time, he puts it together and becomes a key contributor at some point this season.  With some encouragement, I really believe he has the tools to do so.  The foundation has been laid with his recent defensive effort and rebounding.  He can build on that.

I think the reason people are calling Justin out is quite simple, the way he finished the final 5 or 10 games last year had people raising the bar for him this year. With an improved Justin and the new key players coming in (Romeo, Fitzner, Hunter, and Rob), we have the opportunity to have a REALLY good year. And so far, if we are honest, I think we are not playing at the level yet, that many of us expected. It is natural to point the blame at Justin or Archie because no one else on the team, who has been healthy, is really playing too far below expectations. 

Obviously all of the injuries have played a huge role in all of this, but I think many also underestimate how long it takes to get used to playing with each other when you add so many new pieces. We need to just step back and remember this is early December, not late February when we really want the team playing their best.

 

[IU Scott]

2 hours ago, SIHoosier26 said:

You're right, despite the turnovers, soft play, lack of hustle, poor shot selection, and nonchalant attitude he's been absolutely terrific. 🙄  

Look I'm not going to sugarcoat anything, if a player is playing bad I'm going to say it and he has been playing bad. Doesn't mean I don't like him or cheer for him I just call it how I see it. Hopefully he starts playing better because with all the injuries this team needs him at his best to start reaching their potential. As of right now, his last few weeks aren't going to cut it on a championship team.

The problem with guys like you are that you only look at one aspect of the game and that is just what he does on the offensive end of the game.  The 9 rebounds were very good as well as his defense on Stevens but to you he is just awful.  I use to be proud of the IU fan base for their basketball IQ as well as being able to look deeper into the game.  Today not so much because this fan base IQ has went down over the last few years and question some of this fan base basketball IQ.

[IU Scott]

Nobody is saying the players are playing great but I just don't get why some fans think it is ok to constantly bash the players on this site or any other site.  I don't see how anything productive can come from it because it will not help the players play better and if their families ever come here it can't really be good.  Also recruits and their families come to monitor the fan base and they see fans bashing kids on here it won't help in recruiting one ounce.

[BGleas]

2 hours ago, SIHoosier26 said:

You're right, despite the turnovers, soft play, lack of hustle, poor shot selection, and nonchalant attitude he's been absolutely terrific. 🙄  

Look I'm not going to sugarcoat anything, if a player is playing bad I'm going to say it and he has been playing bad. Doesn't mean I don't like him or cheer for him I just call it how I see it. Hopefully he starts playing better because with all the injuries this team needs him at his best to start reaching their potential. As of right now, his last few weeks aren't going to cut it on a championship team.

You’re completely ignoring that a main reason IU won was shutting down a guy in Lamar Stevens averaging 22ppg. Who defended Stevens most of the game? Justin Smith. That was a huge reason IU won. Yes, Smith needs a ton of work offensively, he’s in a huge funk, and the turnovers are maddening, but his defense was fantastic in that game and directly led to the win. 

[5fouls]

8 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

The problem with guys like you are that you only look at one aspect of the game and that is just what he does on the offensive end of the game.  The 9 rebounds were very good as well as his defense on Stevens but to you he is just awful.  I use to be proud of the IU fan base for their basketball IQ as well as being able to look deeper into the game.  Today not so much because this fan base IQ has went down over the last few years and question some of this fan base basketball IQ.

Scott, there is no problem with 'guys like him' any more than there is a problem with you liking the way that the game was played in the past.  It's someone's opinion, and having an opinion is the foundation of boards like this.  

There is a way to disagree without making it personal.  Using phrases like "the problem with guys like you" is not it.

[IU Scott]

8 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Scott, there is no problem with 'guys like him' any more than there is a problem with you liking the way that the game was played in the past.  It's someone's opinion, and having an opinion is the foundation of boards like this.  

There is a way to disagree without making it personal.  Using phrases like "the problem with guys like you" is not it.

Mu main problem with guys like him is that they rip the players constantly which does not help the program.

[5 championships]

6 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Amazing how similar this is to the criticism of Wat as a soph. Pretty much the same. Then look what Wat became. 

Do you think CAM doesn’t know his players? Smith has had good moments, and yes he had 9 boards in this game. He clearly hasn’t put it all together yet, but the promise is there, and he helped in this game. 

Not saying he doesn’t have promise or that CAM shouldn’t play him but probably needs to scale back his minutes some until he figured it out a little better. I’m not sure I want smith playing starter minutes at this point. 

You do run the risk of ruining his confidence completely if you take him out of the lineup but I would scale back the minutes for sure 

[5 championships]

6 hours ago, PoHoosier said:

There is a big difference between picking apart a player vs constructive criticism.  Many posts that pile on say nothing good about him or his recent on court successes.  Even some of his success had been down played or dismissed outright.  This is the piling on that is disturbing.

Asking for him to go up strong at the rim is something I can agree with.  I am glad you had qualified what you deemed poor play.

Hopefully with his effort in practice earning him game time, he puts it together and becomes a key contributor at some point this season.  With some encouragement, I really believe he has the tools to do so.  The foundation has been laid with his recent defensive effort and rebounding.  He can build on that.

Definitely has the tools. Some say he has a  48 inch vertical. To bad you would never know it based on his play. Plays soft bellow the rim. Acts like he can’t dunk. Lazy passes are hard to watch. I don’t mind some turnovers when you are trying to be aggressive but I just think it’s smith body language that really gets me upset. Kinda like jogs around 

[IUFLA]

18 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Mu main problem with guys like him is that they rip the players constantly which does not help the program.

Probably hurts the program about as much as someone bringing over idiotic posts from another forum ripping players and the team and posting them on here

[Steubenhoosier]

1 minute ago, 5 championships said:

Definitely has the tools. Some say he has a  48 inch vertical. To bad you would never know it based on his play. Plays soft bellow the rim. Acts like he can’t dunk. Lazy passes are hard to watch. I don’t mind some turnovers when you are trying to be aggressive but I just think it’s smith body language that really gets me upset. Kinda like jogs around 

All we need now, from one of our illustrious "experts" on the board is to call the kid "Cookie" and we will have come full circle.