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Indykev

Penn St. Post game

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3 hours ago, BGleas said:

So wait, now we're not even giving him credit for holding a guy that averages 22pg to 5-for-13 shooting and just 12 points?

Well, I suppose you can say Smith held him to 13 shots.  

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4 hours ago, rico said:

Well, I suppose you can say Smith held him to 13 shots.  

Regardless of what you think about Stevens, I guarantee you IU’s defensive gameplay centered around stopping Stevens, and Justin Smith was the main reason IU shut him down. 

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12 hours ago, IU Scott said:

Mu main problem with guys like him is that they rip the players constantly which does not help the program.

His using the word "Awful" was a severe slap in the face! We all agree there are things for Smith, and everybody, to improve on! Not seeing the contributions he made, but only concentrating on the negative is wrong. 

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26 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Regardless of what you think about Stevens, I guarantee you IU’s defensive gameplay centered around stopping Stevens, and Justin Smith was the main reason IU shut him down. 

I don't think about Stevens, I know.  He shoots a lot.

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7 minutes ago, rico said:

I don't think about Stevens, I know.  He shoots a lot.

And he scores a lot, and Smith stopped him from doing both. 

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1 minute ago, BGleas said:

And he scores a lot, and Smith stopped him from doing both. 

So did Va Tech.  

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If nothing else, this discussion confirms that Rico is NOT, in fact, Dan Dakich.  Dandy Dan has been living off the fame of the Michael Jordan game ever since it happened.  So, if Rico was truly Dan, he would have an appreciation for Justin's defensive effort against Stevens.  :coffee:

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5 minutes ago, rico said:

So did Va Tech.  

Yeah, Va Tech is really good defensive team too. 

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3 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

If nothing else, this discussion confirms that Rico is NOT, in fact, Dan Dakich.  Dandy Dan has been living off the fame of the Michael Jordan game ever since it happened.  So, if Rico was truly Dan, he would have an appreciation for Justin's defensive effort against Stevens.  :coffee:

Now that funny, I don't care who you are.

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1 minute ago, BGleas said:

Yeah, Va Tech is really good defensive team too. 

So what, the kid chucks up a bunch of shots.  Smith shut him down?  I don't think so.  Think what you want.

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With all of our injuries, the cohesiveness on offense has struggled. I think Archie has concentrated on defense while our wounded filter  back into the rotation. Smith, and Fitzner have had questionable moments on offense, but their rebounding and defense has been solid. I'm old school and believe that defense wins championships, so I'm ok with the direction we're heading.

Now that our guys are getting  back on the floor and can practice with each other, I think we'll see our offense start to improve. The TO rate has got to get better, but we played better by not forcing it several times. The rainbow passes drive me crazy, and are the weakest part of our game right now! I see no situation where a lazy lob pass is OK. Even on an in bounds play when there are zero defenders, we should be using the two handed chest pass with a little zip to it!

This may be the 1st time that Smith has been asked to exert so much energy on defense, and it can take a toll on the other side of the ball. RoJo last year is an example of that. With several guys back in practice I predict we start to jell on offense and we see the roles better defined. IU is competing and improving, enjoy the effort and the season

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10 minutes ago, rico said:

So what, the kid chucks up a bunch of shots.  Smith shut him down?  I don't think so.  Think what you want.

The fact is, he held Stevens, their leading scorer by far, to 9 points below his average and he held him to a lower shooting percentage than he averages and less shot attempts. 

It’s sad that you’re so unwilling to give a Smith any praise.  

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24 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

If nothing else, this discussion confirms that Rico is NOT, in fact, Dan Dakich.  Dandy Dan has been living off the fame of the Michael Jordan game ever since it happened.  So, if Rico was truly Dan, he would have an appreciation for Justin's defensive effort against Stevens.  :coffee:

Dakich also blocks anyone that disagrees with him, so that is another give away.

Edited by IUaic
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7 hours ago, BGleas said:

The fact is, he held Stevens, their leading scorer by far, to 9 points below his average and he held him to a lower shooting percentage than he averages and less shot attempts. 

It’s sad that you’re so unwilling to give a Smith any praise.  

He played okay defense the other night but what has he done over the past couple of weeks to warrant praise?

Really? I'm curious.

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Smith defenders, let me ask this.  What if Stevens offensive struggles were self-inflicted, and not related to Smith's defense?  What if Stevens simply had a bad offensive game, similar to the one we all believe Smith had?

Smith detractors, similar question along the same line.  What if Smith's offensive struggles were the result of great defense by Stevens?  Should we be directing more praise to Stevens and less criticism to Smith?

Food for thought on both sides of the equation.  Maybe it's best to say that neither player had a game equal to what they were capable.

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56 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Smith defenders, let me ask this.  What if Stevens offensive struggles were self-inflicted, and not related to Smith's defense?  What if Stevens simply had a bad offensive game, similar to the one we all believe Smith had?

Smith detractors, similar question along the same line.  What if Smith's offensive struggles were the result of great defense by Stevens?  Should we be directing more praise to Stevens and less criticism to Smith?

Food for thought on both sides of the equation.  Maybe it's best to say that neither player had a game equal to what they were capable.

Great question and a great way to bring water to the fire.

My criticism of Smith's critic(s) were someone stating he is/was awful without any qualifiers.  Criticism is great, it's how one learns.  Say someone's action is awful, but not the player.

I know, the detractor who said this likely isn't JS's dad, but let the criticism be constructive.  Saying 'Justin Smith's awful' is like 'Proper noun / maligned adjective'.  Or, like a chant a rival says at sporting events when IU is not involved in the contest.

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31 minutes ago, PoHoosier said:

Great question and a great way to bring water to the fire.

My criticism of Smith's critic(s) were someone stating he is/was awful without any qualifiers.  Criticism is great, it's how one learns.  Say someone's action is awful, but not the player.

I know, the detractor who said this likely isn't JS's dad, but let the criticism be constructive.  Saying 'Justin Smith's awful' is like 'Proper noun / maligned adjective'.  Or, like a chant a rival says at sporting events when IU is not involved in the contest.

There’s an old adage kicking around my brain, something about if you can’t something nice...

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37 minutes ago, PoHoosier said:

Great question and a great way to bring water to the fire.

My criticism of Smith's critic(s) were someone stating he is/was awful without any qualifiers.  Criticism is great, it's how one learns.  Say someone's action is awful, but not the player.

I know, the detractor who said this likely isn't JS's dad, but let the criticism be constructive.  Saying 'Justin Smith's awful' is like 'Proper noun / maligned adjective'.  Or, like a chant a rival says at sporting events when IU is not involved in the contest.

I understand the point, but I think most on here understand when people say stuff like "awful" they're talking about Justin's game and certainly not him as a person. At least that's the way I take it.

And I think a lot of it is frustration. I think a lot of people see what this team would be with a Justin Smith who concentrated on rebounding and defense, and getting 3 or 4 offensive put backs a game. It would be a special team that could challenge for the B10 title and go deep into the tournament.

It still might be, but I think the Justin Smith I described would make it a whole lot easier.

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2 hours ago, SIHoosier26 said:

He played okay defense the other night but what has he done over the past couple of weeks to warrant praise?

Really? I'm curious.

I've never once said he's done anything to warrant praise for a couple weeks. He's had a very, very rough start to the season. It's been bad and disappointing. But my entire point in this thread has been that this team needs Justin Smith to get it figured out, especially with Hunter and Thompson seemingly out for a long period of time. We don't have another 6'8"ish, athletic hybrid 3/4 on the roster and those types of players are really valuable. 

So, after a game like PSU a coach has two choices, 1) rip him for the poor offensive play and probably tear his confidence up even more, or 2) focus on the positives which are that he gave a much better effort, played excellent (not just 'okay') defense on one of the top scorers in the league and he was strong on the boards, and you build off that to hopefully get him going in other facets as well. 

You praise his effort, defense and rebounding to build him up, while still working on his turnovers and finishing at the rim. You hope, which should happen since it almost always does in basketball, that his effort, defense and rebounding turn into some easy fast break points and some easy put-backs, and then you begin to build his confidence on that end. 

 

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2 hours ago, 5fouls said:

Smith defenders, let me ask this.  What if Stevens offensive struggles were self-inflicted, and not related to Smith's defense?  What if Stevens simply had a bad offensive game, similar to the one we all believe Smith had?

Smith detractors, similar question along the same line.  What if Smith's offensive struggles were the result of great defense by Stevens?  Should we be directing more praise to Stevens and less criticism to Smith?

Food for thought on both sides of the equation.  Maybe it's best to say that neither player had a game equal to what they were capable.

These are all answerable questions if you watched the game. Smith played really good defense on Stevens. Unlike some other games, he played with really strong effort, was active on defense and the glass, and played well in those aspects. The reverse is that he was really bad offensively. Much like other games, he was weak with the ball, got himself caught under the rim/backboard too many times making his finishes around the rim difficult and threw some ill-advised passes that caused unforced turnovers. Not good on that end. 

Completely agree, neither player played to what they're capable of. 

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I will say this one thing.  Stevens shoots a lot.  Interesting that coming into the IU game that Penn St.'s 3 losses came in games in which Lamar put up 20 or more shots.  He had 13 against the Hoosiers.  

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1 minute ago, rico said:

I will say this one thing.  Stevens shoots a lot.  Interesting that coming into the IU game that Penn St.'s 3 losses came in games in which Lamar put up 20 or more shots.  He had 13 against the Hoosiers.  

Which is because of the D he faced in our game, by Smith. The game plan was to try to limit him and force PSU to find other guys to try to score. it worked.

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Just now, Hoosierhoopster said:

Which is because of the D he faced in our game, by Smith. The game plan was to try to limit him and force PSU to find other guys to try to score. it worked.

That ain't what I was saying at all.  Penn St. is better when Stevens doesn't take as many shots.  

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Regardless of anything else, Penn State lost because they had a horrific shooting day at the line.  Doesn't mean I won't take the victory, but let's not overreact and highlight other stuff as the reason IU won.  

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