Jump to content

Welcome to Hoosier Sports Nation | Indiana Basketball and Sports Forum

Welcome to HoosierSportsNation 3.0 -- our newest and best iteration.  We promise we won't bite -- come on in and register to join the party!


Sign in to follow this  
CauseThatsMyDJ

Butler Postgame Thread

Recommended Posts

5 hours ago, FKIM01 said:

Nominations for dumbest quote from the game thread:

"Should have waited for Donovan or just hired a Butler coach. Any Butler coach. They all seem to be better than ours."

"That’s where Fred “the fireworks show”’ Glass screwed the pooch. Could have had Holtmann. Archie’s tenure will be just like Crean’s. New shiny toy, few good recruiting classes, and then a coaching search. Seen this story waaaay too many times."

"It's his job to get them excited.  I love Archie but he's getting absolutely worked by Lavall.  We should be up by 10.  Unless we have a massive second half turn around this will make like 5 bad games in a row."

"I will personally pay for Smith’s tuition if he transfers. I’ll also chip in moving expenses, and buy mom a house."

"Morgan needs this. No RP last second shot please" (Sorry Snozz...I literally laughed out loud reading that one after the game.)

 

Amen to this post. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We have the "Wat Shot", what will this be?  The "Phini-three"?  The "Rob Lob"?  Had the refs made the obvious and correct call on the intentional foul on Morgan's break away, this shot would not have been required. Glad it worked out.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, FW_Hoosier said:

Which of Yogi’s games in his senior year would you put on par with the game Juwan just had?  He only cracked 30 in a big home win over IPFW and a road loss to Wisconsin that year.

Iowa stands out. Juwan was dominant scoring the ball but didn't rebound or play particularly good defense. It wouldn't be hard to make the case 22/7 with great defense is just as dominant. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Seeking6 said:

I know the NBA game is different. I also like to think I know what a basketball player looks like. Juwan Morgan is playing himself into solid draft material....or should be. I think Mack said he's Draymond Green. All I know is he showed his range yesterday. Showed soft touch with moves around rim. He also should be commended for doing all of this with one of the youngest teams in Big 10.

I've been comparing him to Dray since his freshman year. Glad someone finally agrees. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, IUFLA said:

Yeah, I got caught in the same thing. Texans football. Supposed to be on The NFL Network, but CBS took it up for the non-cable having cheap Texans. Didn't see a play.

Helped my wife hang Christmas decorations, til she ran me off for being "crabby."

Like I didn't have a reason...

Don't like to quote my own post but ..

Last night my wife called from our barn and said she was too tired go cook and would I mind...

So I fixed her...I made Costco frozen crab cakes...I got a chuckle and a kiss...

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Sapperin LA said:

Lol, I'm shocked that you of all people didn't see the whole game game JM played! Normally you see the both sides of the court!

I've admitted JM had a fabulous game on offense! 

But his defense tonight proved why his NBA stock is questionable! 

2 blocks, 2 steals...yeah, so Morgan's not perfect defensively...give him a break, okay.  You sound like a guy yelling, "get off my grass!".  He had a career high points day.  I think that counts for a few defensive lapses.

Edited by jv1972iu
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Winning is great no matter the margin but play like we have the last 5 games or so against MSU, UM, Wisky, Maryland, Iowa, or OSU and we're getting hammered.  This is a team that was supposed to have aspirations of a conference title and a deep tourney run.

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i am generally the critical, grumpy old man, but i'm pretty much happy with just getting this W.  when it's all said and done at this point, we are ranked and will climb at least a couple spots tomorrow.  should climb a little more the next week.  it is very good to see.  just to stay consistent, that Arkansas loss is so haunting to me.  hard to imagine what we'd be ranked in a week had we won that one!  also still tough for me to watch Smith.  hard to understand why we couldn't get Romeo and Morgan more involved early.  obviously a horrible last possession of the game, but an unbelievable result!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said:

Winning is great no matter the margin but play like we have the last 5 games or so against MSU, UM, Wisky, Maryland, Iowa, or OSU and we're getting hammered.  This is a team that was supposed to have aspirations of a conference title and a deep tourney run.

Technically if we play like we did the last 5 games against those teams, we go 4-1.

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, StLHoosier said:

Technically if we play like we did the last 5 games against those teams, we go 4-1.

Uh no.  The competition is about to get a lot harder.  At MSU, at UM, at Maryland, at PU, at NW.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, dbmhoosier said:

Uh no.  The competition is about to get a lot harder.  At MSU, at UM, at Maryland, at PU, at NW.

You said “if we play like we did the last 5 games”.  We went 4-1 in that stretch and lost at Duke.  I get what you’re saying, but the games haven’t been played yet.  If our D keeps it up, I’m sure they’ll all be close games.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, FW_Hoosier said:

Which of Yogi’s games in his senior year would you put on par with the game Juwan just had?  He only cracked 30 in a big home win over IPFW and a road loss to Wisconsin that year.

You cant put anyone on par with Juwans game unless you go back 25 to 30 years.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said:

Uh no.  The competition is about to get a lot harder.  At MSU, at UM, at Maryland, at PU, at NW.

First chunk of conference schedule gets tougher certainly. I'm hoping for 3-3 in our next 6. Not many teams are going to win at Sparty or at Michigan so nothing to be upset about losses there....we just need to beat Illinois, Nebraska at home and get 1 of 3 other road games. Nothing Purdue or Northwestern has shown me says we can't win there. And Maryland lost at Purdue. 

Take care of business at home and get one of those road games vs the other three...we'll be 5-3 with 12 to go and 7 home games with road games at Rutgers and at Illinois. Very good chance of finishing up with 14 conference wins. Possibly 15 if we win at Minny. 

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, CSprings Hoosier said:

Those comments aren’t mine but I want to defend people’s ability to criticize underperformance by IU without getting bullied by people who think they get to call others’ comments “dumbest.” The idea that Archie’s in-game coaching is above criticism because we keep barely beating average programs is wrong.

Even that final play, as exciting as it was, was evidence of below-average coaching. Bob Knight probably saw that and lol’d. Archie drew up a play for Romeo with no plan B (?).  Butler’s coach obviously told his guys, “Do not let Romeo get the ball,” and was successful. He was probably ready to thwart multiple plan B’s too, and giggled when it was obvious we had nothing as Green held the ball with the game tied.  Had it not been for Rob saving the day, IU would’ve looked silly on that play and those quotes criticizing Archie would not be “dumbest.”

Archie’s recruiting is pretty great so far, but his in-game coaching (lineup rotation, play calling) is anything but good lately. I wish we could have intelligent discussions as Indiana fans about Indiana basketball rather than the “See?! We barely beat Butler! See?! We barely beat Penn State! See?! We barely beat Northwestern, so your criticism is dumb!” As fans of Indiana basketball we’re allowed to expect more.

I think the nominations are because those types of quotes aren't legit criticisms of Archie's coaching.  Something along the lines of,  "why isn't archie utilizing player A, when he's clearly hot" is much more fair and leading to a discussion than,  "just a shiny new toy,  coaching search, any butler coach is better, etc..."

The flippant remarks that require zero mental thought add squat imo.  I get that people are fired up during the game, but don't understand the need to say someone is trash, they should transfer, etc...

I also find it telling that many of those riding Archie so hard in his second year, only do so in game threads while we're losing. One particular poster only posts about a new coach every couple of games. 

Do I think Archie is perfect? No, but I think he's still young, learning and is instilling a defensive-minded approach, while recruiting his butt off, that will lead to consistent success.  I don't think any player, including Romeo, or the coach is outside criticism. Just think it could be handled with more tact is all. 

P.S. - I was very wrong about RP taking last shot. 🤣😂🤣

  • Like 6
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

First chunk of conference schedule gets tougher certainly. I'm hoping for 3-3 in our next 6. Not many teams are going to win at Sparty or at Michigan so nothing to be upset about losses there....we just need to beat Illinois, Nebraska at home and get 1 of 3 other road games. Nothing Purdue or Northwestern has shown me says we can't win there. And Maryland lost at Purdue. 

Take care of business at home and get one of those road games vs the other three...we'll be 5-3 with 12 to go and 7 home games with road games at Rutgers and at Illinois. Very good chance of finishing up with 14 conference wins. Possibly 15 if we win at Minny. 

 

Hey If we go 13-7 I'll be very happy and you won't see any complaints from me.  14-6 and I'd probably vote Archie B1G coach of the year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, CSprings Hoosier said:

Those comments aren’t mine but I want to defend people’s ability to criticize underperformance by IU without getting bullied by people who think they get to call others’ comments “dumbest.” The idea that Archie’s in-game coaching is above criticism because we keep barely beating average programs is wrong.

Even that final play, as exciting as it was, was evidence of below-average coaching. Bob Knight probably saw that and lol’d. Archie drew up a play for Romeo with no plan B (?).  Butler’s coach obviously told his guys, “Do not let Romeo get the ball,” and was successful. He was probably ready to thwart multiple plan B’s too, and giggled when it was obvious we had nothing as Green held the ball with the game tied.  Had it not been for Rob saving the day, IU would’ve looked silly on that play and those quotes criticizing Archie would not be “dumbest.”

Archie’s recruiting is pretty great so far, but his in-game coaching (lineup rotation, play calling) is anything but good lately. I wish we could have intelligent discussions as Indiana fans about Indiana basketball rather than the “See?! We barely beat Butler! See?! We barely beat Penn State! See?! We barely beat Northwestern, so your criticism is dumb!” As fans of Indiana basketball we’re allowed to expect more.

So do you think that RMK set up that exact play to get Smart that off balance last second shot in 87 to win the championship.  How about that 3 OT game at UW where Hillman shot an air ball from 3 but Garrett rebound basket to win the game.

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, CSprings Hoosier said:

 ...because we keep barely beating average programs is wrong.

 “See?! We barely beat Butler! See?! We barely beat Penn State! See?! We barely beat Northwestern, so your criticism is dumb!” As fans of Indiana basketball we’re allowed to expect more.

Do you even look at stats and rankings?  Those three teams you listed are all ranked in the top 45 teams in the country, and Butlermis ranked just outside the top 25.  We’re not barely beating average teams, we’re barely beating pretty/very good teams.  No CAM isn’t perfect and he does deserve some criticism, but what coach doesn’t?

Edited by StLHoosier

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

So do you think that RMK set up that exact play to get Smart that off balance last second shot in 87 to win the championship.  How about that 3 OT game at UW where Hillman shot an air ball from 3 but Garrett rebound basket to win the game.

Yes Scott, those were both Plan B  😊

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I come to HSN, not to bury Arch, but to praise him.

Hear me out, please.

He just engineered a four game stretch of games, winning by a total of 8 points. Where some may find that deserving of criticism, I find it praise worthy.  When one considers that in each and every one of those games, Arch's team never gave in or gave up.  We've had teams in the not too distant past that would have just thrown in the towel, under circumstances like that.  IMHO that's leadership.  And more over, not even considering the winning spirit, it sets the team up well for the tougher matchups coming once the BIG really gets underway. This team does not quit, and knows how to win.  All because of Arch.

Or we can go back to the Crean days, who on Saturday gave up an 18 POINT LEAD... to lose. 

  • Like 5
  • Thanks 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, FKIM01 said:

Nominations for dumbest quote from the game thread:

"Should have waited for Donovan or just hired a Butler coach. Any Butler coach. They all seem to be better than ours."

"That’s where Fred “the fireworks show”’ Glass screwed the pooch. Could have had Holtmann. Archie’s tenure will be just like Crean’s. New shiny toy, few good recruiting classes, and then a coaching search. Seen this story waaaay too many times."

"It's his job to get them excited.  I love Archie but he's getting absolutely worked by Lavall.  We should be up by 10.  Unless we have a massive second half turn around this will make like 5 bad games in a row."

"I will personally pay for Smith’s tuition if he transfers. I’ll also chip in moving expenses, and buy mom a house."

"Morgan needs this. No RP last second shot please" (Sorry Snozz...I literally laughed out loud reading that one after the game.)

 

I would like to add the person who called "ball game" with a few minutes left in the first half.   That drives me crazy when people say that. 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, CSprings Hoosier said:

Those comments aren’t mine but I want to defend people’s ability to criticize underperformance by IU without getting bullied by people who think they get to call others’ comments “dumbest.” The idea that Archie’s in-game coaching is above criticism because we keep barely beating average programs is wrong.

Even that final play, as exciting as it was, was evidence of below-average coaching. Bob Knight probably saw that and lol’d. Archie drew up a play for Romeo with no plan B (?).  Butler’s coach obviously told his guys, “Do not let Romeo get the ball,” and was successful. He was probably ready to thwart multiple plan B’s too, and giggled when it was obvious we had nothing as Green held the ball with the game tied.  Had it not been for Rob saving the day, IU would’ve looked silly on that play and those quotes criticizing Archie would not be “dumbest.”

Archie’s recruiting is pretty great so far, but his in-game coaching (lineup rotation, play calling) is anything but good lately. I wish we could have intelligent discussions as Indiana fans about Indiana basketball rather than the “See?! We barely beat Butler! See?! We barely beat Penn State! See?! We barely beat Northwestern, so your criticism is dumb!” As fans of Indiana basketball we’re allowed to expect more.

There’s a difference between legitimate criticism and the over the top whining in most of those quotes.  I agree that the out of timeout and end of half plays haven’t been great the past few games — that’s been kind of confusing to me, as I thought Archie did a good job of that last year.  It seems like we’ve ended up with a lot of tough Phinisee drives in those situations, and I’m not sure if that’s how Archie is drawing them up, or if the players just aren’t executing... Either way, he’s got to figure that out.  But to act like Jordan is some coaching genius compared to Archie because he “told his players not to let Romeo get the ball” is pretty funny.

And I totally disagree that the rotations have been bad... I actually like the way Archie’s been distributing minutes.  The slow starts and offensive struggles have been frustrating, and those are things that needs to be addressed.  But the fact of the matter is, we’ve been down at halftime in the past two games against good teams, and we’ve won both games.  The coaching staff deserves a LOT of credit for that.  

Going into the meat of the conference season, we’re 9-2 with our only losses coming to decent/great teams on the road.  We have a great tournament resume with 5 very solid wins, and we’ve positioned ourselves to compete for the conference title with a 2-0 start, which includes a road win.  Hard to expect much more than that, and I’m not the type of fan that has low expectations.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Maud'Dib said:

I would like to add the person who called "ball game" with a few minutes left in the first half.   That drives me crazy when people say that. 

That is why people should not post during games because we all say dumb stuff during the heat of the battle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Archie isn't above criticism. I think we have to remember that Archie is still a YOUNG coach who is also still learning. He's still learning how to coach a program with a target on its back. He's competing against much better coaching than he did at Dayton. Can't lose sight that coaches can and do improve as well...especially when you have the self-awareness that Archie has shown in interviews. Crean acted offended, and mad if you ever questioned something he did in the game. Archie is not like that, and many times has agreed, "Yea, we need to do a better job of that" or "As a staff we have to get better". I expect Archie and staff does a lot of self analysis and will get better. 

That said, I am getting a little tired of watching our team be a reactionary one. We seem to go out, let them punch us in the mouth 5 or 6 times to start the game. I'm hoping that is part of Archie learning to coach the team with a target on its back. Part of it could be that our 2 starting guards are both freshmen. Part of it could be that early in games, it's easier for the inferior opponent to hang with our superior players. I am not sure what it is, but I am sure that Archie hates the way we start and is looking for how they can improve there. It has been fixed IN GAME as well because we turn it around and win.

Ultimately, we have a coach who gets us wins when things aren't going well. In the past, if we weren't scoring, we were getting blown out. We have a team that always has their defense to fall back on...defense travels, too. A team that has fight. A team that will continue to improve throughout the year and IMO, a staff that will continue to improve as well. Buckle up.

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×