Dawson Garcia Commits to Marquette

[CrimsonV]

7 minutes ago, rico said:

What exactly does that mean?  Kids can get drafted out of HS and then what?  Seems to me kids will still be going to college for 1 year and then jump.  

It means Archie is going to be rubbing elbows with NBA scouts and I’d bet a large in flux of youth into over seas leagues for the big chunk of kids that get drafted and don’t pan out.

[Bedford1432]

6 minutes ago, Long Duk Dong said:

My thought is that all of these recruits who speak so glowingly about us after visits are merely flattering us. 

Pretty much.  I am guessing they say that after almost every visit to every school when being interviewed by a reporter following that school. When was the last time you heard a kid say I did not enjoy the visit.

[Wayward1]

If these 3 analysts all heard something last night about Garcia, then I imagine that same news would be public by now. Since it's not, my guess is that one made an educated guess and the other two followed along. He may well pick Marquette, but I really don't think the Garcia family spilled the beans last night. We'd all know in this gossip ridden sport of ours.

[jefftheref]

The sun will come up tomorrow. If true he is going elsewhere it's somewhat easy to understand. Next year in the front court you have Brunk, Jackson-Davis, Smith, Thompson and Hunter. Playing time will have to be shared and possibly limited. He will more than likely get unlimited playing time and attention at wherever he goes.

Good luck to him in whatever path he chooses.

[CincyHoosier]

I'm glad this will be over in a little more than 24 hours.  The program will move on with or without him.  

[cybergates]

I'm sure the Garcias are doing the best they can to deal with the blowback/backlash of not choosing the in-state school. I wonder if they fear for their lives? Oh wait, was that another recruit?

 

[Seeking6]

8 minutes ago, cybergates said:

I'm sure the Garcias are doing the best they can to deal with the blowback/backlash of not choosing the in-state school. I wonder if they fear for their lives? Oh wait, was that another recruit?

 

You'd be surprised. Colleges that are in pro towns get the heat very, very quickly. People acting upset that Garcia might choose IU? I can assure you Gophers fans are more pissed because he's local and they view Marquette as some afterthought like we do. 

[milehiiu]

38 minutes ago, rico said:

What exactly does that mean?  Kids can get drafted out of HS and then what?  Seems to me kids will still be going to college for 1 year and then jump.  

Adam Silver: NBA's one-and-done rule will end in near future - The Washington Post

[hoosiermd]

13 minutes ago, jefftheref said:

The sun will come up tomorrow. If true he is going elsewhere it's somewhat easy to understand. Next year in the front court you have Brunk, Jackson-Davis, Smith, Thompson and Hunter. Playing time will have to be shared and possibly limited. He will more than likely get unlimited playing time and attention at wherever he goes.

Good luck to him in whatever path he chooses.

I'll get killed on this board for saying so, but this is pretty interesting to me for a couple of reasons. I definitely think there is a "type" when it comes to players that the IU fanbase wants. I wonder if Garcia is about "me first" mentality then maybe he's exactly what we DON'T need in candystripes. If Garcia were a talent that demanded 25-28 minutes a game, I don't think CAM would hesitate to give him those kinds of minutes. Afterall, Archie knows what he stepped into when he came to Bloomington and the expectations that came along with it. @jefftheref is basically implying that what won over Garcia is "minutes & attention" but is that the type of player we want at Indiana? It certainly runs counter to what I suspect is the majority opinion on this particular board, so losing Garcia would seem to be a good thing, or at least it would be from this perspective. 

As a 17/18 year old kid, I would think getting a chance to play for a fanbase like IU's, with buddies of his who would compliment his game, with a program with an incredible history that by all accounts is ascending would be very very difficult to turn down especially given the obvious interest the coaching staff has given to Garcia. Unless he's absolutely committed to being a Chemical or Mechanical Engineer, then there is absolutely nothing outside of "proximity" that would say Marquette over Indiana & even that's tenuous. I think we want to give the benefit of the doubt to parents, but making sure you can see your son's t-ball games is a lot different than wanting the best for you son. It's an odd parallel. I get that people will defend it because of "parents parents parents!" but man that's a weak argument, or at least it is to me simply because it's putting the parents best interests first instead of the players. If it's a huge part of the kid's idea that mommy & daddy come to every game, then, well.......I'd rather not have a kid like that. 

This board is super optimistic and very cordial. That's why it's the best but sometimes I think it can be half glass full a little too much. I hope Garcia still pops for Indiana and maybe if we were winning it would make the decision easier, but I'm like a lot of people on here, there is simply no reason whatsoever not to choose Indiana is this particular instance. 

[Bedford1432]

9 minutes ago, hoosiermd said:

I'll get killed on this board for saying so, but this is pretty interesting to me for a couple of reasons. I definitely think there is a "type" when it comes to players that the IU fanbase wants. I wonder if Garcia is about "me first" mentality then maybe he's exactly what we DON'T need in candystripes. If Garcia were a talent that demanded 25-28 minutes a game, I don't think CAM would hesitate to give him those kinds of minutes. Afterall, Archie knows what he stepped into when he came to Bloomington and the expectations that came along with it. @jefftheref is basically implying that what won over Garcia is "minutes & attention" but is that the type of player we want at Indiana? It certainly runs counter to what I suspect is the majority opinion on this particular board, so losing Garcia would seem to be a good thing, or at least it would be from this perspective. 

As a 17/18 year old kid, I would think getting a chance to play for a fanbase like IU's, with buddies of his who would compliment his game, with a program with an incredible history that by all accounts is ascending would be very very difficult to turn down especially given the obvious interest the coaching staff has given to Garcia. Unless he's absolutely committed to being a Chemical or Mechanical Engineer, then there is absolutely nothing outside of "proximity" that would say Marquette over Indiana & even that's tenuous. I think we want to give the benefit of the doubt to parents, but making sure you can see your son's t-ball games is a lot different than wanting the best for you son. It's an odd parallel. I get that people will defend it because of "parents parents parents!" but man that's a weak argument, or at least it is to me simply because it's putting the parents best interests first instead of the players. If it's a huge part of the kid's idea that mommy & daddy come to every game, then, well.......I'd rather not have a kid like that. 

This board is super optimistic and very cordial. That's why it's the best but sometimes I think it can be half glass full a little too much. I hope Garcia still pops for Indiana and maybe if we were winning it would make the decision easier, but I'm like a lot of people on here, there is simply no reason whatsoever not to choose Indiana is this particular instance. 

If it was minutes and attention we were never a serious player imo. He will be the man at MU so good luck to him.

[IU Scott]

10 minutes ago, hoosiermd said:

I'll get killed on this board for saying so, but this is pretty interesting to me for a couple of reasons. I definitely think there is a "type" when it comes to players that the IU fanbase wants. I wonder if Garcia is about "me first" mentality then maybe he's exactly what we DON'T need in candystripes. If Garcia were a talent that demanded 25-28 minutes a game, I don't think CAM would hesitate to give him those kinds of minutes. Afterall, Archie knows what he stepped into when he came to Bloomington and the expectations that came along with it. @jefftheref is basically implying that what won over Garcia is "minutes & attention" but is that the type of player we want at Indiana? It certainly runs counter to what I suspect is the majority opinion on this particular board, so losing Garcia would seem to be a good thing, or at least it would be from this perspective. 

As a 17/18 year old kid, I would think getting a chance to play for a fanbase like IU's, with buddies of his who would compliment his game, with a program with an incredible history that by all accounts is ascending would be very very difficult to turn down especially given the obvious interest the coaching staff has given to Garcia. Unless he's absolutely committed to being a Chemical or Mechanical Engineer, then there is absolutely nothing outside of "proximity" that would say Marquette over Indiana & even that's tenuous. I think we want to give the benefit of the doubt to parents, but making sure you can see your son's t-ball games is a lot different than wanting the best for you son. It's an odd parallel. I get that people will defend it because of "parents parents parents!" but man that's a weak argument, or at least it is to me simply because it's putting the parents best interests first instead of the players. If it's a huge part of the kid's idea that mommy & daddy come to every game, then, well.......I'd rather not have a kid like that. 

This board is super optimistic and very cordial. That's why it's the best but sometimes I think it can be half glass full a little too much. I hope Garcia still pops for Indiana and maybe if we were winning it would make the decision easier, but I'm like a lot of people on here, there is simply no reason whatsoever not to choose Indiana is this particular instance. 

What do you want us to do go to social media an belittle Dawson and his parents like UK fans.  Don't know if it is true or not this fan base could cost us recruits as well especially how we reacted to the players during the losing streak last year.

[hoosiermd]

1 minute ago, IU Scott said:

What do you want us to do go to social media an belittle Dawson and his parents like UK fans.  Don't know if it is true or not this fan base could cost us recruits as well especially how we reacted to the players during the losing streak last year.

that is a serious overreaction to anything I said.

[Bedford1432]

On a make us feel better note Minnesota had 4 to 80 recruits and pitino got none of them

[Hoosierhoopster]

13 minutes ago, hoosiermd said:

I'll get killed on this board for saying so, but this is pretty interesting to me for a couple of reasons. I definitely think there is a "type" when it comes to players that the IU fanbase wants. I wonder if Garcia is about "me first" mentality then maybe he's exactly what we DON'T need in candystripes. If Garcia were a talent that demanded 25-28 minutes a game, I don't think CAM would hesitate to give him those kinds of minutes. Afterall, Archie knows what he stepped into when he came to Bloomington and the expectations that came along with it. @jefftheref is basically implying that what won over Garcia is "minutes & attention" but is that the type of player we want at Indiana? It certainly runs counter to what I suspect is the majority opinion on this particular board, so losing Garcia would seem to be a good thing, or at least it would be from this perspective. 

As a 17/18 year old kid, I would think getting a chance to play for a fanbase like IU's, with buddies of his who would compliment his game, with a program with an incredible history that by all accounts is ascending would be very very difficult to turn down especially given the obvious interest the coaching staff has given to Garcia. Unless he's absolutely committed to being a Chemical or Mechanical Engineer, then there is absolutely nothing outside of "proximity" that would say Marquette over Indiana & even that's tenuous. I think we want to give the benefit of the doubt to parents, but making sure you can see your son's t-ball games is a lot different than wanting the best for you son. It's an odd parallel. I get that people will defend it because of "parents parents parents!" but man that's a weak argument, or at least it is to me simply because it's putting the parents best interests first instead of the players. If it's a huge part of the kid's idea that mommy & daddy come to every game, then, well.......I'd rather not have a kid like that. 

This board is super optimistic and very cordial. That's why it's the best but sometimes I think it can be half glass full a little too much. I hope Garcia still pops for Indiana and maybe if we were winning it would make the decision easier, but I'm like a lot of people on here, there is simply no reason whatsoever not to choose Indiana is this particular instance. 

Why do you think you'll get killed on the board for this post? Some, including me, are going to disagree with your take on labeling a kid 'me first' when looking at playing time and opportunity -- that is absolutely a factor in basically every single high-level recruit's recruitment -- but that's not getting killed.

Not sure where you get the impression Garcia has or could have a "me first" mentality. I'm not aware of anything that would point to that. Rather, we have guys who want him on the team, for several reasons. That he may be considering getting significant playing time and opportunity (not clear on where the 25-28 min per game comes from)? That's absolutely par for the course, and something he SHOULD be considering. Name the high level recruit who isn't looking for playing time and opportunity. These are elite recruits who are looking not just for the college experience, but for their potential pro careers.

Playing time is development, it's exposure, it's the opportunity to take themselves to an NBA or other pro career. They're going to college, to play ball, not just to play ball for their college, but for their future careers and opportunity, you know, the reason any of us chose a college. They are elite athletes looking to play professionally. They're not "me first" guys because they're looking for playing time and opportunity, and if there are high level / veteran players or incoming recruits playing their spot, that's going to turn away most of the high level recruits. That's not on the recruit.

There are guys who are more willing to look at their opportunity at a program on a more long-term basis, that it might take them a year to two to get significant playing time. And that's cool, but it doesn't make those guys some how better, or make the other guys "me first" players, it's just their outlook and what works for them and their families. That's not to say there aren't selfish elite players, of course there are, but I don't think it's good to go about branding a guy as me first, or implying he is, because he may be looking for real playing time.

[IU Scott]

I have said this before on here and usually gets ripped for it but maybe our fan base is not the big sale it use to be.  Look at the last couple of years and the attendance has went way down but I don't like the excuse of the schedule.  Back in the day it did not matter who we were playing because it was full for almost every game.  Also I think some of that has to do with more out of state students who did not grow up a huge IU basketball fans and couldn't care less about it.  Also I feel our fans have become to much like any other fan base where we are quick to judge and go to social media to rip players and coaches.

[hoosiermd]

1 minute ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Why do you think you'll get killed on the board for this post? Some, including me, are going to disagree with your take on labeling a kid 'me first' when looking at playing time and opportunity -- that is absolutely a factor in basically every single high-level recruit's recruitment -- but that's not getting killed.

Not sure where you get the impression Garcia has or could have a "me first" mentality. I'm not aware of anything that would point to that. Rather, we have guys who want him on the team, for several reasons. That he may be considering getting significant playing time and opportunity (not clear on where the 25-28 min per game comes from)? That's absolutely par for the course, and something he SHOULD be considering. Name the high level recruit who isn't looking for playing time and opportunity. These are elite recruits who are looking not just for the college experience, but for their potential pro careers.

Playing time is development, it's exposure, it's the opportunity to take themselves to an NBA or other pro career. They're going to college, to play ball, not just to play ball for their college, but for their future careers and opportunity, you know, the reason any of us chose a college. They are elite athletes looking to play professionally. They're not "me first" guys because they're looking for playing time and opportunity, and if there are high level / veteran players or incoming recruits playing their spot, that's going to turn away most of the high level recruits. That's not on the recruit.

There are guys who are more willing to look at their opportunity at a program on a more long-term basis, that it might take them a year to two to get significant playing time. And that's cool, but it doesn't make those guys some how better, or make the other guys "me first" players, it's just their outlook and what works for them and their families. That's not to say there aren't selfish elite players, of course there are, but I don't think it's good to go about branding a guy as me first, or implying he is, because he may be looking for real playing time.

Appreciate you. I get the argument you are making. I just disagree with it in regards to context. As far as dealing with "impressions", that's what we all are doing. It's just impressions. I played D1 baseball and then played in the minors for a few season before becoming a scout. This was before medicine obviously. You just get "impressions" when being around a kid. I don't have anything to say about Garcia, his family or his situations as won't even remotely pretend to be a basketball scout, but I will say I've been around enough 17/18-year old kids to get somewhat of a feel. 

I will say that if a kid is coming in looking for playing time, then he's not about winning. You can disagree all day and that's fine and I get where you are coming from playing devil's advocate. I don't know what it's like in a college basketball office at high level D1 schools. I don't have any experience there. When I scouted a kid and he wanted to know how many ABs or how many IPs he's going to get, that's an immediate red flag and I know enough NFL scouts through scouting channels that it's a red flag for them too. Obviously football/baseball are different sports. Maybe it's SO DIFFERENT that you simply can't compare.

I think what you are somewhat missing from my take is the "type" of player the Indiana fanbase wants. I think for the most part we want the proverbial student athlete that is about winning championships. If a kid isn't about that, then my argument is that he's not an IU type of player. 

Re: 3rd paragraph: Again, sort of missing the point. It's a me-first attitude regardless of how you color it. I'm not saying it's wrong. I'm saying it goes against type.

Re: 4th paragraph: See comment regarding 3rd paragraph. I think everyone here has said they'd rather have the 3-4 year player than a 1-and done type of player. Guys like Romeo Langford and Cody Zeller are the obvious exceptions to this rule, but they are also Indiana kids. TJD could very well be another. Garcia isn't a Hoosier.

Like I say, I'm all for Garcia coming to Indiana. I don't understand why he wouldn't, but if he doesn't, I'm just saying that this one might be another instance of us dodging a bullet.

[FKIM01]

On the "me first" question with Garcia...don't see it at all.  Galloway and Leal appear to very much like Garcia and if he were a selfish player, I doubt that would be the case.  Bringing up that kind of a question when it appears a recruit might choose a competing school is a bad look no matter how careful you are about the question.

...and there's 200 minutes in a ballgame.  That's 20 minutes for ten players.  Some will get more and some less but there's absolutely no reason at all to think Garcia would not get an opportunity to play significant minutes at IU even with a deep and experienced team.  If he's NBA material, he's going to need to show the ability to carve out minutes at the college level first and I believe he would.

The experts think he's going to Marquette and given their track record, it's likely.  That being said, I think Garcia loved what he saw in Bloomington and very much likes the staff and at least several of the players.  Despite the track record, these experts miss on occasion (sorry newbie, I'll say it again...Slater still missed on Geronimo.  Dismiss it all you want and point to his overall record, but misses happen.)  Let's let this play out and then move on.  Next year's team will be good either way.

[Zuckerkorn]

I can't say that DG is the type of player looking for a showcase or stepping stone situation.  Matt Hurt was/is that type of player, as voiced by his dad - and while supremely ranked, not the kind of player we need while establishing a culture.  I do think the opportunity for perhaps more PT or being more of a focus of the offense may have been a factor in choosing MU (assumed).

Whatever the case, it is what it is and we must deal with it.

[Bedford1432]

6 minutes ago, FKIM01 said:

On the "me first" question with Garcia...don't see it at all.  Galloway and Leal appear to very much like Garcia and if he were a selfish player, I doubt that would be the case.  Bringing up that kind of a question when it appears a recruit might choose a competing school is a bad look no matter how careful you are about the question.

...and there's 200 minutes in a ballgame.  That's 20 minutes for ten players.  Some will get more and some less but there's absolutely no reason at all to think Garcia would not get an opportunity to play significant minutes at IU even with a deep and experienced team.  If he's NBA material, he's going to need to show the ability to carve out minutes at the college level first and I believe he would.

The experts think he's going to Marquette and given their track record, it's likely.  That being said, I think Garcia loved what he saw in Bloomington and very much likes the staff and at least several of the players.  Despite the track record, these experts miss on occasion (sorry newbie, I'll say it again...Slater still missed on Geronimo.  Dismiss it all you want and point to his overall record, but misses happen.)  Let's let this play out and then move on.  Next year's team will be good either way.

Garcia would have gotten alot of minutes from day one. He would just not have been the man like he will be at MU. 

[hoosiermd]

2 minutes ago, FKIM01 said:

...and there's 200 minutes in a ballgame.  That's 20 minutes for ten players.  Some will get more and some less but there's absolutely no reason at all to think Garcia would not get an opportunity to play significant minutes at IU even with a deep and experienced team.  If he's NBA material, he's going to need to show the ability to carve out minutes at the college level first and I believe he would.

Absolutely this. I don't see the "me first" mentality with Garcia either. What I argued was that if he's choosing Marquette based on the opportunity to get playing time & exposure then it just doesn't carry. That stinks of "well Indiana is amazing, but I can be the man at Marquette." There is plenty of speculation on this board that the Hauser guys transferred because Wojo wouldn't rein in Howard. That sort of lends to the premise that Howard wanted to be "the man" at Marquette and Wojo was more than OK with allowing him to do so without any repercussions. I'm not sure that attitude within the Indiana basketball program would be tolerated. Nor would the fanbase tolerate a player like Howard who has the perception of a "me first" player. But if I'm parent (that is being given a HUGE benefit of the doubt by our fanbase as being plugged in) then that's a HUGE red flag regardless of proximity to campus. Something just seems off. 

[IU Scott]

I don't think DG is a me first player but I don't know that for sure.  If a players first question is about playing time or how many shots they will get to me that shows a me first player.  To me I don't want those type of players coming to IU because it will hurt your team chemistry.  I want a player who wants to win and will work hard to get those minutes or shots and don't fill entitled to them.

[Bedford1432]

Well if that is how wojo operates than not hard to see why he choose MU. Lots of players would love to be " the man"  with the offense centered around them.

[dwtaylor1055]

https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=59340.25

Info below is from link above:

Yes, but with those press conferences, weren't they already pretty well known they were going to pick MU?? That's what I recall. I know there was Illinois and Florida with Novak, but I don't think anyone really believed he was going to pick either one. This one feels different, IF the rumors are true that as of this morning, the staffs didn't even know yet...then i don't know what to think.

[Zlinedavid]

53 minutes ago, hoosiermd said:

I'll get killed on this board for saying so, but this is pretty interesting to me for a couple of reasons. I definitely think there is a "type" when it comes to players that the IU fanbase wants. I wonder if Garcia is about "me first" mentality then maybe he's exactly what we DON'T need in candystripes. If Garcia were a talent that demanded 25-28 minutes a game, I don't think CAM would hesitate to give him those kinds of minutes. Afterall, Archie knows what he stepped into when he came to Bloomington and the expectations that came along with it. @jefftheref is basically implying that what won over Garcia is "minutes & attention" but is that the type of player we want at Indiana? It certainly runs counter to what I suspect is the majority opinion on this particular board, so losing Garcia would seem to be a good thing, or at least it would be from this perspective. 

As a 17/18 year old kid, I would think getting a chance to play for a fanbase like IU's, with buddies of his who would compliment his game, with a program with an incredible history that by all accounts is ascending would be very very difficult to turn down especially given the obvious interest the coaching staff has given to Garcia. Unless he's absolutely committed to being a Chemical or Mechanical Engineer, then there is absolutely nothing outside of "proximity" that would say Marquette over Indiana & even that's tenuous. I think we want to give the benefit of the doubt to parents, but making sure you can see your son's t-ball games is a lot different than wanting the best for you son. It's an odd parallel. I get that people will defend it because of "parents parents parents!" but man that's a weak argument, or at least it is to me simply because it's putting the parents best interests first instead of the players. If it's a huge part of the kid's idea that mommy & daddy come to every game, then, well.......I'd rather not have a kid like that. 

This board is super optimistic and very cordial. That's why it's the best but sometimes I think it can be half glass full a little too much. I hope Garcia still pops for Indiana and maybe if we were winning it would make the decision easier, but I'm like a lot of people on here, there is simply no reason whatsoever not to choose Indiana is this particular instance. 

We won't kill you over a post like that. Hell, We may not even ridicule you.

Although odds on the first are much better than odds on the second.

 

[IUaic]

Anybody know the line of the Michigan game this weekend? 🏈