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Dawson Garcia Commits to Marquette


CauseThatsMyDJ

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2 hours ago, cybergates said:

Former fUK player Tyler Herro had this to say the other day, what a lovely endorsement...

“Definitely coming from Kentucky, I know that they love you when you’re playing good, but when you’re playing bad, they hate you,” the 19-year-old said.

Hmmmm... that sounds a lot like us 😂  We definitely have no problem, eating our own!

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3 hours ago, JugRox said:

So was Yogi, T Williams,  Langford, Gordon, White, Watford, Vonleh, Bryant, Zeller, Blackmon, etc....and?

Yogi, Langford, Gordon, White, Vonleh, Bryant, Zeller and Blackmon weren't just top 80.  They were all more or less top 15. Debating the difference between #40 and #50 in a class is generally splitting hairs.  But there's almost always a big difference between #15 and #75. 

Watford was between 30 and 40, and was more or less a known quantity. He contributed immediately, and his skills that he brought to IU got better over time, but he was the player we expected him to be. 

Troy was kind of a project, albiet a more polished one.  He wasn't totally raw, but his biggest attribute was being a freak athlete, not any one thing about his game. 

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6 hours ago, JugRox said:

So was Yogi, T Williams,  Langford, Gordon, White, Watford, Vonleh, Bryant, Zeller, Blackmon, etc....and?

And some players are ranked on results, some on potential. Geronimo is a bit of both.

Those you listed were ranked that high and expected to produce as freshman.

Geronimo is not projected as that. 

Good grief, you hinted Geronimo was not a project because he is rated 80ish. I am saying that is not the case.

Me saying that has nothing to do with Yogi or Cody etc.

So there is an answer for your "and......"

And let me be clear, I LOVE the Geronimo pick up. I am very high on him.

 

 

 

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12 hours ago, Zlinedavid said:

Is he a project for a mid-major? No.

Is he a project for a championship level team? Yes. 

Being a project isn't a bad thing, it's just not a known quantity.  Vic was a project, but he wasn't a known quantity when he came in. 

We are a championship caliber team?? I’d be happy to make the tournament. We are far from being so good a freshman can’t come in and play right away and help. I mean did anyone think Rob was going to start last year with Devonte here last year? 

33 minutes ago, bluegrassIU said:

And some players are ranked on results, some on potential. Geronimo is a bit of both.

Those you listed were ranked that high and expected to produce as freshman.

Geronimo is not projected as that. 

Good grief, you hinted Geronimo was not a project because he is rated 80ish. I am saying that is not the case.

Me saying that has nothing to do with Yogi or Cody etc.

So there is an answer for your "and......"

And let me be clear, I LOVE the Geronimo pick up. I am very high on him.

 

 

 

I think Geronimo has a definite role as a freshman. He even said coming in as a defensive specialist and energy guy. I’d say Leal and Galloway are more projects because they will take more time to work into the starting line up in my opinion. I see Geronimo like OG. He will see the court quickly because of his athleticism and desire to do the dirty work. Now...project in being an offensive go to threat...certainly...but getting on the court and contributing no. I think he has a role very quickly.

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14 minutes ago, dgambill said:

We are a championship caliber team?? I’d be happy to make the tournament. We are far from being so good a freshman can’t come in and play right away and help. I mean did anyone think Rob was going to start last year with Devonte here last year? 

I think Geronimo has a definite role as a freshman. He even said coming in as a defensive specialist and energy guy. I’d say Leal and Galloway are more projects because they will take more time to work into the starting line up in my opinion. I see Geronimo like OG. He will see the court quickly because of his athleticism and desire to do the dirty work. Now...project in being an offensive go to threat...certainly...but getting on the court and contributing no. I think he has a role very quickly.

I do not disagree necessarily. I guess my point was, for us to get where we want to be, we need impact guys along with what good qualities or current commitments already bring to the table.

Again, I am very happy with what we have. I simply think it is important to add one legitimate impact player.

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1 hour ago, Zlinedavid said:

No, but I'm assuming we'd like to be.  And if that's the case, we've got to evaluate talent as if we are one. 

But we are what we are. You can’t just skip steps unless you are going to pay to bring in superstars to get us to championship level. We are not even a ncaa tournament team...so until we get to that level guys like Geronimo ARE better than what we currently have...so he is going to get a chance to contribute right away. If he is a project all our 2020 guys are projects. We just aren’t that good to have too 100 guys be projects that are going to sit for a year or whatever.. now granted I don’t expect s polished player but I expect him to play significant time because of his athleticism and defense. You have a front court of Garcia, Trayce, Smith, and Brunk and Rob driving the car I could easily see Geronimo slide into the wing across from Hunter and we wouldn’t need a lot of shooting from him because Garcia, Hunter, and Rob will all do that and Trayce or others down low. That is why this Garcia recruitment is so big...it gives us shooting at the 4 and allows guys like Armaan and Jordan to play more because we won’t need them to be shooters.

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It's not skipping steps to bring in talented players. Not unless you're chasing one-and-done types, though even there there staff brought in Romeo and went hard after Darius Garland and Keion Brooks. We have already a roster stacked with four-year, four-star players, guys who will grow into Archie's system. Archie's proven he can land those 100-150 ranked recruits, especially in the state, and the state of Indiana will produce players like that in every class.

Where the staff needs to get better is landing some of our more highly regarded targets, especially from outside the state. DJ Carton. Anthony Harris.  Lester Quinones. To all appearances, Hassan Diarra. These are players we spent resources on, brought in for visits, but couldn't land. They're also likely all players that wouldn't be one and done, but would spend multiple years in Archie's system. Those are the range of targets where I'd like to see a few more hits. Dawson Garcia would be one such get.

When Archie was hired, the Villanova and North Carolina programs were held up as examples of the get old and stay old philosophy. Both had won championships without relying on one and done talent. They had five-stars on the roster, but a core of players who had been in the system for multiple seasons. I don't want to presume to speak for anyone reading, but many fans on the message boards I read like that model, and want it for Indiana. When you look at the core of those teams, though, they're all higher ranked targets than what we're currently landing. Their multiple year guys were high end four-stars, ranked in the 30-80 range. Virginia just won their championship with a 2016 class full of guys in that range.

I know rankings aren't perfect and I'm not meaning to suggest otherwise, but it's useful as a shorthand and a starting point when assessing and discussing the caliber of talent entering the program. I like a lot of things Archie is doing in recruiting. But until I see how they develop, I have some doubts that the guys we're bringing in right now are guys with the ability to take this program where we want it to be.

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1 hour ago, Maedhros said:

It's not skipping steps to bring in talented players. Not unless you're chasing one-and-done types, though even there there staff brought in Romeo and went hard after Darius Garland and Keion Brooks. We have already a roster stacked with four-year, four-star players, guys who will grow into Archie's system. Archie's proven he can land those 100-150 ranked recruits, especially in the state, and the state of Indiana will produce players like that in every class.

Where the staff needs to get better is landing some of our more highly regarded targets, especially from outside the state. DJ Carton. Anthony Harris.  Lester Quinones. To all appearances, Hassan Diarra. These are players we spent resources on, brought in for visits, but couldn't land. They're also likely all players that wouldn't be one and done, but would spend multiple years in Archie's system. Those are the range of targets where I'd like to see a few more hits. Dawson Garcia would be one such get.

When Archie was hired, the Villanova and North Carolina programs were held up as examples of the get old and stay old philosophy. Both had won championships without relying on one and done talent. They had five-stars on the roster, but a core of players who had been in the system for multiple seasons. I don't want to presume to speak for anyone reading, but many fans on the message boards I read like that model, and want it for Indiana. When you look at the core of those teams, though, they're all higher ranked targets than what we're currently landing. Their multiple year guys were high end four-stars, ranked in the 30-80 range. Virginia just won their championship with a 2016 class full of guys in that range.

I know rankings aren't perfect and I'm not meaning to suggest otherwise, but it's useful as a shorthand and a starting point when assessing and discussing the caliber of talent entering the program. I like a lot of things Archie is doing in recruiting. But until I see how they develop, I have some doubts that the guys we're bringing in right now are guys with the ability to take this program where we want it to be.

I agree for the most part. I love the guys Archie has brought in. Guys like Phinisee, Franklin, and eventually Leal, Galloway, Geronimo, etc. Those are great guys to build around, but those guys get better and look better when they’re surrounding a core of guys in that 30-80 range, like you said. 

Archie seems to be doing great in that 80-150 range, which is good, but like you said we need more of those high 4*/borderline 5* guys that stay 2-4 years. That UVA team is a perfect example, the core of that team (Guy, Jerome, Hunter, Diatike) were all highly rated guys. 

Leal, Galloway, Franklin, Geronimo, etc. will look even better if they’re surrounding a team of Hunter, TJD, Garcia and Lander. For sustained, long term success, you need to be bringing in a couple guys in each class that are in that 25/30-75/80 range. 

Guys like Lander, Furst and Kaufman in the same class. Garcia and Geronimo in the same class. Langford and Hunter in the same class. Obviously that last one works better if Hunter is healthy and Langford stays another year. 

Like I said earlier, to build a program you need to stack those high end guys that stay a few years so you have bridges from group-to-group, and then surround those guys with the Phinisee’s, Franklin’s, Leal’s, Brunk’s, Galloway’s, etc. 

If Archie can pull that off, IU will be in the MSU range consistently and will avoid the huge swings Crean always had in consistency. 

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5 hours ago, BGleas said:

I agree for the most part. I love the guys Archie has brought in. Guys like Phinisee, Franklin, and eventually Leal, Galloway, Geronimo, etc. Those are great guys to build around, but those guys get better and look better when they’re surrounding a core of guys in that 30-80 range, like you said. 

Archie seems to be doing great in that 80-150 range, which is good, but like you said we need more of those high 4*/borderline 5* guys that stay 2-4 years. That UVA team is a perfect example, the core of that team (Guy, Jerome, Hunter, Diatike) were all highly rated guys. 

Leal, Galloway, Franklin, Geronimo, etc. will look even better if they’re surrounding a team of Hunter, TJD, Garcia and Lander. For sustained, long term success, you need to be bringing in a couple guys in each class that are in that 25/30-75/80 range. 

Guys like Lander, Furst and Kaufman in the same class. Garcia and Geronimo in the same class. Langford and Hunter in the same class. Obviously that last one works better if Hunter is healthy and Langford stays another year. 

Like I said earlier, to build a program you need to stack those high end guys that stay a few years so you have bridges from group-to-group, and then surround those guys with the Phinisee’s, Franklin’s, Leal’s, Brunk’s, Galloway’s, etc. 

If Archie can pull that off, IU will be in the MSU range consistently and will avoid the huge swings Crean always had in consistency. 

Can I like this post 1,000 times please.

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1 hour ago, ClusterHead said:

As an outsider looking in, they have a lot of ground to make up.  However, Penny is making magic happen on the recruiting trail, so I’m not ready to say they have no shot...more of a puncher’s chance.

I heard Mike Miller was the one most of the kids were impressed with. Seems to connect well with the kids.

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