FKIM01 Posted February 26, 2019 Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 2 hours ago, bluegrassIU said: My take is.just the opposite. I think he has proven 2 things.... 1. An ability to coach many giant egos, as you alluded to. 2. To get the talent ready for the NBA Where I feel he falls short.is in game coaching. Adjusting, x and o stuff. With the talent he gets, he should have several national championships. This is why when Cal.brags, it is about how many players are in the NBA and how much money they make. NOT how much they win. I think he is a great recruiter, a very good developer of talent, a magician at coaching egos and slightly above average in game coach. Sorry...I just don't agree on the development. There are so many kids who went the other way. Labissiere may be one of the more obvious examples, butt there are plenty of examples where a player's stock dropped. Sure, you can point to a lot of NBA success among Cal's players, but that speaks more to his ability to recruit high-level players than actually develop them. My argument is that given the same level of talent, there are a lot of D1 coaches who could brag about the same level of NBA success. The argument is made moot by the fact that very few D1 coaches can recruit as successfully as Cal can. It's just pretty easy to point to plenty of offsetting examples that cast doubt about Cal being a superior developer of talent. He's OK, but nothing special in that regard. Frankly, any D1 coach worth his contract should be able to develop/improve the talent he recruits. If Cal is as good as his legend suggests, you'd consistently see examples of players draft stock improving. Of course, talents like Anthony Davis have nowhere to go but sideways and I'll give Cal a pass on a top-5 recruit that stays at that level. I'm more interested in examples where either a top-5 recruit falls out of the lottery or where a Top-30 recruit plays their way into the lottery. Substantial moves either up or down in the draft says more about the ability to develop talent than simply getting McDonalds All-Americans drafted. That's expected of competent coaches at the D-1 level. Let's look at someone like Alex Poythress...#7 player in his class. Ended up not entering the draft early, but instead played FOUR years at UK and was undrafted after four years of John Calipari's "development" and is currently playing his way out of the league with the Hawks in his 3rd season in the league. You can argue I'm cherry-picking my examples, but I'd be happy to match every success story you can come up with showing Cal's ability to develop a player with an offsetting story showing lack of development. All I'm arguing here is that Cal's ability to develop players is nothing extraordinary. No one is saying he's terrible. I'm simply saying that I can find plenty of D-1 coaches who have done as much or more to improve their players' draft stock than Cal has, so the illusion that Cal can better develop players for the NBA is just baloney. What is superior is his hype machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted February 26, 2019 Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 3 hours ago, bluegrassIU said: My take is.just the opposite. I think he has proven 2 things.... 1. An ability to coach many giant egos, as you alluded to. 2. To get the talent ready for the NBA Where I feel he falls short.is in game coaching. Adjusting, x and o stuff. With the talent he gets, he should have several national championships. This is why when Cal.brags, it isabout how many players are in the NBA and how much money they make. NOT how much they win. I think he is a great recruiter, a very good developer of talent, a magician at coaching egos and slightly above average in game coach. Spot on. To get these kids who were all THE man on their teams to work together and especially play defense he is a good motivator. Fact is he puts more kids in the NBA than anyone else...UK has facilities like no one else...have connections to nba talent advisors and coaches like no one else and it is the winningst program in college history. Sure some kids drop...but they didn’t put the work in...and when you are at the top of your class the only place to go is likely down. Just because a kid is ranked really high doesn’t mean the rankings got it right (Skal) Or if they aren’t highly rated like SGA last year doesn’t mean they aren’t really special. Whatever the case the chicken or the egg (good before so they get drafted highly or Cal gets them ready so they get drafted highly) it happens at UK on a level no other school except maybe recently Duke can compete with. Kids identify UK and Cal as the best way to get to the NBA and playing with and against elite talent day in and out will sharpen their game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milehi Fan Posted February 26, 2019 Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 I thought I clicked on the KB recruitment thread. But apparently I clicked on the “Is Cal from UK a good developer of talent” thread. My bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted February 26, 2019 Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 5 hours ago, Milehi Fan said: I thought I clicked on the KB recruitment thread. But apparently I clicked on the “Is Cal from UK a good developer of talent” thread. My bad. Well, it does tie in with the "Why would Keion go to UK over IU?" thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted February 26, 2019 Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 Why do some get so uptight about where a thread goes? There arent daily updates with recruits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CauseThatsMyDJ Posted February 26, 2019 Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 https://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/news/twitter-tuesday-washington-indiana-duke-terrence-shannon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeeYa@roys Posted February 26, 2019 Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 5 hours ago, btownqb said: Why do some get so uptight about where a thread goes? There arent daily updates with recruits. The vast majority of folks that read this thread are specifically looking for news on Keion. I’d love to see him in Bloomington next year, and I believe we desperately need players like him. While your Calipari discussion is interesting, it belongs in the general basketball discussion. You’re absolutely right when you say that there aren’t daily updates on recruits. However, you have to realize that the people that open this thread are looking for news, speculation, tweets, rumors, or anything else related to Keion. Candidly, it’s pretty frustrating when: -I see that this thread has new posts or a lot of posts in a short time. -I log on to see what happened, or if there was a major development in Keion’s recruitment. -instead, it’s a few folks debating stuff like whether Calipari is a good developer of talent I’m not trying to be rude here, and you can call me uptight if you want.I’d just ask that you please be more considerate of why others are logging onto this specific thread. Thanks. P.S. Calipari is a world-class clown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milehi Fan Posted February 26, 2019 Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 41 minutes ago, SeeYa@roys said: The vast majority of folks that read this thread are specifically looking for news on Keion. I’d love to see him in Bloomington next year, and I believe we desperately need players like him. While your Calipari discussion is interesting, it belongs in the general basketball discussion. You’re absolutely right when you say that there aren’t daily updates on recruits. However, you have to realize that the people that open this thread are looking for news, speculation, tweets, rumors, or anything else related to Keion. Candidly, it’s pretty frustrating when: -I see that this thread has new posts or a lot of posts in a short time. -I log on to see what happened, or if there was a major development in Keion’s recruitment. -instead, it’s a few folks debating stuff like whether Calipari is a good developer of talent I’m not trying to be rude here, and you can call me uptight if you want.I’d just ask that you please be more considerate of why others are logging onto this specific thread. Thanks. P.S. Calipari is a world-class clown. Very well stated. Seems like a pretty reasonable request, but what do I know. I am “so uptight”. I had no idea pointing out a thread had derailed a bit was “uptight”, but I know now! Thank you btownqb for the life lesson! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FKIM01 Posted February 26, 2019 Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 12 hours ago, Milehi Fan said: I thought I clicked on the KB recruitment thread. But apparently I clicked on the “Is Cal from UK a good developer of talent” thread. My bad. It's just a debate between fans trying to expose Cal as a pretty average to mediocre developer of talent vs. closet-Kentucky fans trying to convince Keion that he should go to UK. 😋 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steubenhoosier Posted February 26, 2019 Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 12 minutes ago, FKIM01 said: It's just a debate between fans trying to expose Cal as a pretty average to mediocre developer of talent vs. closet-Kentucky fans trying to convince Keion that he should go to UK. 😋 Agree with most of what has been said on here that Cal is a great salesman and a mediocre coach. Unfortunately, it really doesn't matter what we think. Kids have the perception that UK is one of the "it" schools to go to if they are highly talented basketball players. I really don't think that at the level of ego and self-perceived skill that these kids think that they are going to attend UK and regress. They think that they are going to be in a high profile environment, rub elbows with certain celebrities, and position themselves for millions of dollars in the very short term. None of the kids that are at the very highest level think that they are going to be in Lexington for more than a year. Meeting the NBA/NCAA requirement to attend college for a year is a formality. Skill development will happen when they are getting paid for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zlinedavid Posted February 26, 2019 Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 1 hour ago, SeeYa@roys said: I’m not trying to be rude here, and you can call me uptight if you want.I’d just ask that you please be more considerate of why others are logging onto this specific thread Can I still make sheep jokes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Hardcore Posted February 26, 2019 Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 33 minutes ago, Zlinedavid said: Can I still make sheep jokes? Yes please.🤣 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zlinedavid Posted February 26, 2019 Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 3 minutes ago, IU Hardcore said: Yes please.🤣 If ewe insist.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billingsley99 Posted February 26, 2019 Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 1 hour ago, Zlinedavid said: If ewe insist.... That's BAAAAAAAD real BAAAAAAAAAAD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybergates Posted February 26, 2019 Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 20 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said: That's BAAAAAAAD real BAAAAAAAAAAD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zlinedavid Posted February 26, 2019 Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 Dirty deeds....done with sheep..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CauseThatsMyDJ Posted February 26, 2019 Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 14 minutes ago, Zlinedavid said: Dirty deeds....done with sheep..... I knew we'd get this topic back to @bluegrassIU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rd726 Posted February 26, 2019 Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 36 minutes ago, Zlinedavid said: Dirty deeds....done with sheep..... An Oldie but a Goodie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
addictedtoIU Posted February 26, 2019 Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 6 hours ago, CauseThatsMyDJ said: https://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/news/twitter-tuesday-washington-indiana-duke-terrence-shannon So no one knows at this point. PU was never a serious contender, and UNC may be too far from home. IU had a chance to close, but a disappointing season could've hurt this recruitment, and the way IU operates its offense is not very attractive. UK can be a good choice but he could be over-recruited and won't get enough playing time. That leaves MSU; it's a great program, and he can be featured in Izzo's offense. Brooks is not an OAD, so I think MSU may land him in the end unless Archie and Co totally turn this dismal season around, win the remaining regular season games, win the BTT, and get to the big dance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proud2BAHoosier Posted February 26, 2019 Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 1 minute ago, addictedtoIU said: Brooks is not an OAD, so I think MSU may land him in the end unless Archie and Co totally turn this dismal season around, win the remaining regular season games, win the BTT, and get to the big dance. Gee, not asking too much eh???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billingsley99 Posted February 26, 2019 Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 1 hour ago, Zlinedavid said: Dirty deeds....done with sheep..... This is Indiana basketball site not Kentucky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
addictedtoIU Posted February 26, 2019 Report Share Posted February 26, 2019 1 hour ago, Proud2BAHoosier said: Gee, not asking too much eh???? I know, that's why it probably won't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted February 27, 2019 Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 3 hours ago, addictedtoIU said: So no one knows at this point. PU was never a serious contender, and UNC may be too far from home. IU had a chance to close, but a disappointing season could've hurt this recruitment, and the way IU operates its offense is not very attractive. UK can be a good choice but he could be over-recruited and won't get enough playing time. That leaves MSU; it's a great program, and he can be featured in Izzo's offense. Brooks is not an OAD, so I think MSU may land him in the end unless Archie and Co totally turn this dismal season around, win the remaining regular season games, win the BTT, and get to the big dance. Is IU’s offense run any differently than MSU’s? I haven’t heard any recruit mention anything about IU’s offense not being attractive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowhunter Posted February 27, 2019 Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 3 hours ago, Billingsley99 said: This is Indiana basketball site not Kentucky What are you hearing on Brooks lately? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierSadaseci Posted February 27, 2019 Report Share Posted February 27, 2019 The further we get away from the UK visit without a commit to Big Blue, the more I feel we have a chance...but i guess that goes without saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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