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Hoosierhoopster

Mid-Season Wooden Award List - Top 25

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4 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Romeo checks in (one of five frosh) 

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/page/woodenwatch010919/college-basketball-2019-wooden-award-midseason-top-25

To see Carsen Edwards and not Morgan is kind of disappointing...

Perfect timing. JM come out with a little chip on your shoulder and showcase your talent Friday night.

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Brazdeikas is the third or fourth best player for MI. No Matthews or Poole?

The Wooden Award watch lists are published throughout the season. Players not on the current list are eligible for inclusion in later lists.

That's a relief. I was afraid they couldn't add Cam Reddish so they can give a 3-way award to him, Zion Williamson and RJ Barrett

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5 minutes ago, kyhoosier29 said:

Embarrassing to college basketball that Juwan Morgan is not on that list. I hope it offends him.

I don't think IU deserves to have two players on the list.  If we did, we are grossly underachieving.  But, our candidate should be Juwan, not Romeo.

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3 hours ago, 5fouls said:

I don't think IU deserves to have two players on the list.  If we did, we are grossly underachieving.  But, our candidate should be Juwan, not Romeo.

Agree.

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13 hours ago, 5fouls said:

I don't think IU deserves to have two players on the list.  If we did, we are grossly underachieving.  But, our candidate should be Juwan, not Romeo.

How have we underachieved even if we had two on that list.  Two of our three losses have been on the road to the #1 and 2 teams in the country.

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51 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

How have we underachieved even if we had two on that list.  Two of our three losses have been on the road to the #1 and 2 teams in the country.

If you have 2 of the Top 25 players in the country, but are still only ranked 22nd,  then how do teams ahead of you in the rankings have zero Top 25 players?  

I guess you could point to coaching, but I don't think that's the case either.  

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43 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

If you have 2 of the Top 25 players in the country, but are still only ranked 22nd,  then how do teams ahead of you in the rankings have zero Top 25 players?  

I guess you could point to coaching, but I don't think that's the case either.  

We are underrated.  Simple as that.  

And we were up to 15th in the NET rankings(now 18).

If err... WHEN we get healthy watch out!!!

Go Hoosiers!!!

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56 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

If you have 2 of the Top 25 players in the country, but are still only ranked 22nd,  then how do teams ahead of you in the rankings have zero Top 25 players?  

I guess you could point to coaching, but I don't think that's the case either.  

UM is deeper and more experience plus they are healthy and Duke another loss has 2 players on that list as well plus another player considered a top 5 pick in the draft.

Edited by IU Scott

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1 minute ago, IU Scott said:

UM is deeper and more experience plus they are healthy and Duke another loss has 2 players on that list as well plus another player considered a top 5 pick in the draft.

Maybe so.  But the teams hanging around our level in the rankings have one or zero players.  How can we, and only we, be ranked where we are with TWO of those players when no one else with our record and ranking does?

If UK had a second player on the list, we would be talking about what a crappy coaching job Cal was doing, and they are higher ranked than us.

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30 minutes ago, Indy1987 said:

We are underrated.  Simple as that.  

And we were up to 15th in the NET rankings(now 18).

If err... WHEN we get healthy watch out!!!

Go Hoosiers!!!

This isn't really about where we are ranked.  It is who the best 25 players are.  There is a difference although you could make a correlation between the two.  

Edited by rico

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1 hour ago, rico said:

This isn't really about where we are ranked.  It is who the best 25 players are.  There is a difference although you could make a correlation between the two.  

Correct.  I was just responding to 5fouls bringing up our 22nd rank and why 2 players shouldn't be on the list being ranked that low.

I think both are worthy to be on the list.   Where we are ranked as a team really does undervalue us.  When we get back to full strength this is a top 15 team.

Morgan more than likely killed his chances with that Duke game.   A lot of eyes were watching him sit on the bench.

Go Hoosiers!!!

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Advanced stats tell us that Juwan has a better PER, a better offensive rating, a better defensive rating, a better plus/minus, and more win shares than Romeo.

Edited by 5fouls

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13 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Advanced stats tell us that Juwan has a better PER, a better offensive rating, a better defensive rating, a better plus/minus, and more win shares than Romeo.

And "who" does advanced stats tell us who the best 25 players are?

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8 minutes ago, rico said:

And "who" does advanced stats tell us who the best 25 players are?

Zion Williamson leads the country in PER, Box Plus/Minus, Win Shares per 40 Minutes, is 4th in offensive rating, and 3rd in defensive rating.

No surprise there.  I think that adds some validity to those numbers.

Juwan is 7th nationally in Box Plus/Minus.

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1 hour ago, 5fouls said:

Advanced stats tell us that Juwan has a better PER, a better offensive rating, a better defensive rating, a better plus/minus, and more win shares than Romeo.

But does it pass the eye test?:coffee:

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3 hours ago, 5fouls said:

Advanced stats tell us that Juwan has a better PER, a better offensive rating, a better defensive rating, a better plus/minus, and more win shares than Romeo.

In all seriousness, there's just no legitimate question that Morgan should be on this list, imo. 

Although I go only so far on advanced stats/metrics. Romeo is clearly killing it and is one of the best players in the conference, by basically any standard, as a frosh.

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I mean, when you consider the ridiculous injuries this team has dealt with, I could see possibly putting two IU players on the list and still not feeling like the team was underperforming.  There's just no depth when we thought it would be a strength.

...but yes...I think Juwan belongs on that list a little before Romeo.  If Romeo was stroking about 35-37% of this 3's, I'd call it a push, but frankly, if he was, we'd probably be a 1 loss team.  If Romeo is more of a threat from outside, that changes the whole dynamic of this team.

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There are approximately 360 D1 schools.  You can throw 260 of them out immediately as non-factors in something like this, because they will never, ever have a player of the caliber to be on the list.  So, IU players are 'competing' with players from 100 other D1 schools for this type of recognition. 

To have one player recognized is an outstanding achievement.  To get 2 is mocking the laws of mathematics.  But, Duke and Tennessee are clearly top 5 teams, and their selections are understandable.  Nevada probably did not deserve two.  Yes, I understand that this is individual recognition, not team recognition, but part of winning an individual award is helping your team win. 

IU, as a team, has not accomplished enough to warrant two players being on the list.  This is not a Vic and Cody situation, where we were the #1 team in the country for most of the year.  And, from my perspective, the stats clearly say that Juwan should have been selected over Romeo.  Don't get me wrong, Romeo has been great.  And, he certainly deserves recognition as one of the top freshmen in the country.  But, he is not a serious candidate for Player of the Year.  In contrast, If IU were to somehow win the Big Ten, we could be looking at Juwan as 2nd or 3rd team All-American.

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4 hours ago, 5fouls said:

Zion Williamson leads the country in PER, Box Plus/Minus, Win Shares per 40 Minutes, is 4th in offensive rating, and 3rd in defensive rating.

No surprise there.  I think that adds some validity to those numbers.

Juwan is 7th nationally in Box Plus/Minus.

Where are you getting your numbers from?

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