Nebraska Postgame Thread

[rico]

Look, and I am gonna be brutally honest.

Biggest problem I had with the game was there seemed to be no sense of urgency.  Damn, down double figures after 10 in the 2nd.  No press.  No nothing.  Fitzner and McRoberts , should never see the floor again.  I said it a few games back.  They suck.  Tired  of hearing about the injuries, when Jake, Damezi, and Clifton get few minutes.  That is squarely on Archie.  And to be honest, Archie ain't showing me much right now.  All I got at this moment.

[Officer Obie]

I just worked a crossword puzzle and had a nightcap. Go Hoosiers.

[BobSaccamanno]

Far be it for me to get out of my lane, but Archie and the staff need to make some coffee and order Mother Bears but they may need an all nighter or two.  There are a lot of problems with the players, but I think some adjustments are in order. 

The B1G schedule is like the NFL schedule.  There is no mercy.  You’ve lost three in a row. That doesn’t mean you’re due.  The next team will be good and will try to gouge your eyes out.  Knight and his staff would go into the cave and two things would occur.  One, they’d come out with some adjustments.  Two, after film work, you’d see who wasn’t bringing it, and they’d go into a secondary role until they got the message.  

My suggestion would be to bring Romeo out on top and let him handle it.  Rob could bring it up and Romeo could come get it at the top of the circle, and let’s go.  Rob could get ready for some jumpers off the ball.  Green too.  He was terrible tonight but we have no choice with him.  

Up front, Juwaun at 6’7 is undersized and it’s wearing on him at times.  We need to get him free too.  Maybe let him operate in a bit more space more often to free him.  It’d be nice if Davis could play, but he’s a second semester junior and he’s got some more dings.  It’s tough for him because the Achilles didn’t allow him to get in shape and when you’re huffing and puffing you’re more apt to get hurt.  He could bring a lot but it’s not there now.  

Archie is obviously a big believer in patience.  If a kid flat out makes a lazy pass and then doesn’t hustle back, with the result being a missed shot and then an easy follow up for the opponent because the Indiana guys gently jog back with no urgency, Archie takes it as one play and he accepts it. He might tell them to hustle but he will put the offending player right back in.  Personally, after an all nighter at looking at that stink, he should have the tape ready at practice tomorrow and start reducing minutes.  

Not only is Archie patient but he believes in playing experience and veterans.  The thing is, when you count up possessions and guys not making the play, that should be factored in just as much as mental errors.  Right now, Fitzner is an immense liability out there.  A young player might make a mistake but at least there’s an upside there as opposed to Fitzner who consistently doesn’t make the play because the speed and athleticism at this level is too much.  As for McRoberts, I appreciate the player quite a bit, but when you haven’t scored in 175 straight minutes or so, you need to take a back seat.  I’m sure he’s being a gamer and playing hurt, and I appreciate that, but it’s pointless throwing that out on the floor until he’s healthy. 

This is going to get much more serious.  We are teetering and nothing gets solved automatically.  The coaches need to make some changes in strategy but also in player rotations.  Intensity should be at a higher premium, even at the expense of a learning mistake.  At least there’s upside there.  If anybody, whether by his father’s influence or otherwise, is about “getting mine” and not invested in playing tough, hard, smart team ball, the player can become toxic to a team environment.  That may need to be handled with more force and not be catered to.

  

[cohete15]

1 hour ago, Indykev said:

Hi Mrs.Green, could you please tell your son he should be a pass first player, please.

So you're a "blame Devonte" guy? He has 1 turnover in the past 3 games and is one of the 3 toughest players on the court. And that turnover was him trying to draw a foul under the basket. He's one of 3 players on the court not afraid. He's one of 3 that tries to make winning plays. 

[Steubenhoosier]

Here’s what I think-

- Regardless of the grief this board piles on Miles, he is a decent coach. His team this season is full of Seniors/ upper class men, who were all recruited for and have played in his system for 3-4 years. Even if those kids were not as highly rated as some of our guys, they aren’t slouches and have matured and gained a lot more experience than most of the kids we had on the floor. Big advantage to Nebraska.

- The B1G is a grind. It takes a toll. As talented as a kid like Romeo is, he’s a freshman with a freshman body. He has never faced the gauntlet that conference basketball presents. Nebraska has a team of older players who have been through it several times, who have had the benefit of more years of strength training. Makes a difference. Compounding the problem is the injuries on our roster. Those posters who claim that injuries aren’t an excuse anymore, I’d ask, why? Because you say so, and it makes you look like a tough guy? This isn’t football, where a couple of injuries can be absorbed by the roster. Not only do the injuries affect the product on the floor, but it takes a toll on the healthy kids through them having to play more minutes—38 is too many for Romeo— and by more in practice, due to the lack of bodies. All this had an affect on tonight’s game.

- Some of the comments here are out of frustration, but c’mon guys, we aren’t better than we were ? Archie can’t coach? Doom and gloom? This isn’t year 7 or 8 of Crean ball. This is season 1 1/2 of Archie. Coaching a roster where at least 4 kids are playing meaningful minutes who were recruited to play a style of basketball completely different than what Archie wants. Coaching a roster that is not well built, partially due to injury and partially due to Crean’s recruiting. CAM will not be on the hot seat next year, suggesting so really makes our fan base look like we as bad as the knuckleheads in W Lafayette, Lexington and Champaign-Urbana— you know, the fans this board targets and ridicules every chance we get.

Clearly, the product on the floor has to improve. I am confident it will. But it’s going to be a process. Steps forward and steps back. Many folks on here have suggested that we would lose games we probably shouldn’t- not sure if tonight qualifies as one of those or not- and win games we weren’t expecting to. We still have 14 conference games and tournaments to play. I would ask for this board, collectively, to step back from the ledge. And, I would ask some of you guys who have been through this a time or two to stop stoking the fires and instead try to be a voice of reason 

 

[iufaninand]

I think it all boils down to we expect the players to care as much as we do as fans. At least for tonight, they’re weren’t enough on the floor that did

[cohete15]

3-8 in the B1G after the next 5 games is a real possibility. 

[HoosierJax]

15 minutes ago, rico said:

Look, and I am gonna be brutally honest.

Biggest problem I had with the game was there seemed to be no sense of urgency.  Damn, down double figures after 10 in the 2nd.  No press.  No nothing.  Fitzner and McRoberts , should never see the floor again.  I said it a few games back.  They suck.  Tired  of hearing about the injuries, when Jake, Damezi, and Clifton get few minutes.  That is squarely on Archie.  And to be honest, Archie ain't showing me much right now.  All I got at this moment.

There was no sense of urgency from some players..but there never is,Justin Smith ,to me acts like he's not sure if he wants to play or not...guess Dad will let us know...has Fitzner hit a 3 since the Marquette game? I think Morgan gets frustrated with the play of some players...Romeo should come back next year...Moore needs to see the floor a lot more..Rob Phin needs to play more then Greene ..Deron,well I'm not sure what to even say,poor guy couldn't even jump for a lay up during warm ups..Al should come off the bench,be a defensive spark,but I guess he got hurt tonight....and I would start giving minutes to Anderson and Forester..not a lot but some cause wat I seen tonight isn't going to cut it the rest of the year.

[Snozzwangers_und_covfefe]

15 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said:

Here’s what I think-

- Regardless of the grief this board piles on Miles, he is a decent coach. His team this season is full of Seniors/ upper class men, who were all recruited for and have played in his system for 3-4 years. Even if those kids were not as highly rated as some of our guys, they aren’t slouches and have matured and gained a lot more experience than most of the kids we had on the floor. Big advantage to Nebraska.

- The B1G is a grind. It takes a toll. As talented as a kid like Romeo is, he’s a freshman with a freshman body. He has never faced the gauntlet that conference basketball presents. Nebraska has a team of older players who have been through it several times, who have had the benefit of more years of strength training. Makes a difference. Compounding the problem is the injuries on our roster. Those posters who claim that injuries aren’t an excuse anymore, I’d ask, why? Because you say so, and it makes you look like a tough guy? This isn’t football, where a couple of injuries can be absorbed by the roster. Not only do the injuries affect the product on the floor, but it takes a toll on the healthy kids through them having to play more minutes—38 is too many for Romeo— and by more in practice, due to the lack of bodies. All this had an affect on tonight’s game.

- Some of the comments here are out of frustration, but c’mon guys, we aren’t better than we were ? Archie can’t coach? Doom and gloom? This isn’t year 7 or 8 of Crean ball. This is season 1 1/2 of Archie. Coaching a roster where at least 4 kids are playing meaningful minutes who were recruited to play a style of basketball completely different than what Archie wants. Coaching a roster that is not well built, partially due to injury and partially due to Crean’s recruiting. CAM will not be on the hot seat next year, suggesting so really makes our fan base look like we as bad as the knuckleheads in W Lafayette, Lexington and Champaign-Urbana— you know, the fans this board targets and ridicules every chance we get.

Clearly, the product on the floor has to improve. I am confident it will. But it’s going to be a process. Steps forward and steps back. Many folks on here have suggested that we would lose games we probably shouldn’t- not sure if tonight qualifies as one of those or not- and win games we weren’t expecting to. We still have 14 conference games and tournaments to play. I would ask for this board, collectively, to step back from the ledge. And, I would ask some of you guys who have been through this a time or two to stop stoking the fires and instead try to be a voice of reason 

 

Well said. 

[kyhoosier29]

Nebraska is a good ball club who can really shoot it and really gets after it on D. Although we shouldn’t lose this game at home, Nebraska is good. We should give them some credit. 

I’m not giving up on my team. The one thing about CAM’s teams is that they work hard on D, so we’ll be in every game the rest of the way (except at MSU maybe) with a chance to win. Really need to steal the next one. 

The glaring weakness that we’ve talked about all year was very prevalent tonight. Nebraska packed the paint bc they knew we couldn’t shoot it. You HAVE to be able to knock down shots to keep the D honest. 

I was at the game, and although we looked sluggish at times, there wasn’t a lack of effort IMO. Appeared to be more of a frustrated mentality more than anything. 

Some of you guys are writing off CAM after one recruiting class? Good God, that’s a little ridiculous. Romeo is a stud, Hunter hasn’t seen a minute bc of injury, Rob is a really good PG who will keep getting better, and Damezi will improve (only a freshman). Relax people, he’s likely to have two more five stars next year. Let him build a roster before we give up on him. Be thankful we play defense, and he’s been able to do it so quickly with mostly Crean’s guys. He can’t turn non-scorers into scorers (= most of the guys he didn’t recruit) on the offensive side. Efficiency will improve when he gets more athletes in here. 

Lastly, injuries have killed us this year. Hunter was, and is going to be a big time player for us. Rob got hurt at a really inopportune time. He’s still not 100%. Davis is still gimpy. Al went off tonight. Who is CAM supposed to go to? Fitzner was a solid shooter and started off well. CAM’s fault the guy has disappeared? Has no options, cupboard was really bare. Give him some time.

[kyhoosier29]

16 minutes ago, Snozzwangers_und_covfefe said:

Well said. 

Well said. Typed a lot of similar things at the same time. Meant to quote Steub! Oops.

[Bowhunter]

1 hour ago, rico said:

Look, and I am gonna be brutally honest.

Biggest problem I had with the game was there seemed to be no sense of urgency.  Damn, down double figures after 10 in the 2nd.  No press.  No nothing.  Fitzner and McRoberts , should never see the floor again.  I said it a few games back.  They suck.  Tired  of hearing about the injuries, when Jake, Damezi, and Clifton get few minutes.  That is squarely on Archie.  And to be honest, Archie ain't showing me much right now.  All I got at this moment.

Can u give me a little credit for calling some of this earlier this season? You were pretty hard on me when I said we were not that good,  especially our offense, while we were winning close games at home and against mediocre Butler.

[FW_Hoosier]

Posts from 2020:

”We lost our two best players from last year, more than half our rotation is made up of underclassmen, and [insert two or three bench players] are injured.   Archie just needs more time to get his guys in the system, don’t forget that all of our upperclassmen are Crean recruits.  Plus, [insert mediocre Big Ten program] is a really tough, veteran team that can really shoot the ball.  Everyone that’s complaining just needs to relax, you sound like Kentucky fans.”

[Leathernecks]

Here are my 3 biggest questions/concerns after tonight's game.  Not freaking out about Archie or anything like that, but I'd love an answer to these 3 questions.

1. End of first half.  Romeo makes 2 free throws with 14 seconds left.  We have McRoberts and Fitzner in the game for their last possession.  McRoberts picks up their best player 30 feet from the basket and gets burnt, Fitzner is way to slow to help and gives up an easy dunk to put them back up by 9 and give them momentum going into halftime.  Why were those two in the game, and why was McRoberts on their best player?
2. Why didn't Moore get more playing time?  He isn't perfect and can make some mistakes on defense, but he had 5 points and 3 rebounds in 5 minutes and gave us a spark.  Also drew 2 fouls.  Why doesn't he get a chance?
3. After we didn't hustle back and gave up an easy rebound dunk when Archie was screaming at the guys on the floor, did anybody get taken out?  I honestly don't know, and I deleted that crap so I can't go back and check.  I know Smith didn't hustle, Romeo got to the 3 point line and stopped and let guys run by him.  The under 12 timeout came shortly after that.  Did any of the non hustlers get taken out?

[rico]

30 minutes ago, Bowhunter said:

Can u give me a little credit for calling some of this earlier this season? You were pretty hard on me when I said we were not that good,  especially our offense, while we were winning close games at home and against mediocre Butler.

Don't remember.  But if I did I apologize.  

[Bowhunter]

4 minutes ago, rico said:

Don't remember.  But if I did I apologize.  

Thanks.. No worries, you weren’t the only one.

Our offense just has never looked quite right to me. Obviously lack of shooters and poor decision making doesn’t help. Now our defense is slipping. Hope Archie gets things turned around. 

[Indykev]

1 hour ago, cohete15 said:

So you're a "blame Devonte" guy? He has 1 turnover in the past 3 games and is one of the 3 toughest players on the court. And that turnover was him trying to draw a foul under the basket. He's one of 3 players on the court not afraid. He's one of 3 that tries to make winning plays. 

I guess you can put me in there if you wish. Devonte is what he is. a guy who's never seen a shot he didn't like and today he is the same player he was the day he step foot on campus. Turnovers are a whole lot more than throwing the ball away, its also bad shots at really bad times. This is where I think Archie has changed this season, last year he pulled guys making bad shots, this year no. I think that has to do with giving Romeo the freedom to make mistakes taking bad shots.

[kyhoosier29]

46 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

Posts from 2020:

”We lost our two best players from last year, more than half our rotation is made up of underclassmen, and [insert two or three bench players] are injured.   Archie just needs more time to get his guys in the system, don’t forget that all of our upperclassmen are Crean recruits.  Plus, [insert mediocre Big Ten program] is a really tough, veteran team that can really shoot the ball.  Everyone that’s complaining just needs to relax, you sound like Kentucky fans.”

So one recruiting class in for CAM.... serious? We all were worn out with Crean after 7-8 years, but we at least gave him 4 before we constantly complained about the obvious patterns. 

[rico]

3 minutes ago, Bowhunter said:

Thanks.. No worries, you weren’t the only one.

Our offense just has never looked quite right to me. Obviously lack of shooters and poor decision making doesn’t help. Now our defense is slipping. Hope Archie gets things turned around. 

Always remember 2 things about me.......1) I am not Dan Dakich, and 2) I have differing opinions on a lot of things with other posters on the site.

But I do my damnest to not be disrespectful.  And quite honestly I revel in the guys that "argue" with me.  They make me think.  And I enjoy that.

As far as my beloved Hoosiers.  Not good.  

[kyhoosier29]

2 minutes ago, Indykev said:

I guess you can put me in there if you wish. Devonte is what he is. a guy who's never seen a shot he didn't like and today he is the same player he was the day he step foot on campus. Turnovers are a whole lot more than throwing the ball away, its also bad shots at really bad times. This is where I think Archie has changed this season, last year he pulled guys making bad shots, this year no. I think that has to do with giving Romeo the freedom to make mistakes taking bad shots.

I agree, but I really think he wants to take guys out more. He just doesn’t have anywhere to turn.

[rico]

3 minutes ago, kyhoosier29 said:

So one recruiting class in for CAM.... serious? We all were worn out with Crean after 7-8 years, but we at least gave him 4 before we constantly complained about the obvious patterns. 

That really ain't the problem on my end.  I will give Archie latitude, but dammit he talks out of one side of his mouth and does the opposite when it comes game time.  The third game in row where he has done that, and he has done it previous to those 3.  Talking about "so and so" is gonna see some minutes only to ride the pine.  He needs to "Knight" these guys.  Next game have a complete new starting 5.  He is so in love with one walk on about giving the others PT?

[rico]

9 minutes ago, kyhoosier29 said:

I agree, but I really think he wants to take guys out more. He just doesn’t have anywhere to turn.

Well Fitz and McBoob aren't the answers

[FW_Hoosier]

4 minutes ago, kyhoosier29 said:

So one recruiting class in for CAM.... serious? We all were worn out with Crean after 7-8 years, but we at least gave him 4 before we constantly complained about the obvious patterns. 

I’m just saying, I’m sick and tired of the constant excuses for awful losses like this... And with our roster shaping up to be just as limited/inexperienced next season, I’m going to be even more sick and tired of the excuses then.  

A few injuries to bench players, being a “young” team, lacking shooters, etc., etc., should not excuse getting blown out by a slightly above average team like Nebraska when you have one of the best home court advantages in college basketball and arguably two of the top five players in the conference.  That is a total failure by Archie — he has more than enough to work with here, and he’s not getting it done.  

Getting beat down by Duke or choking away a lead to Maryland on the road, fine, it happens.  But there is just no good excuse for this team to lose a home game like this, and the frustrating thing is that it looks like there are going to be a lot more of these kinds of losses in the future, both this season and next.

[Hoosierdave]

Don't even know where to begin.

1. You would think that a team that showed a lot of promise in a close loss would be interested in redeeming themselves with a big win at home. Instead, this team looked like a group that felt sorry for themselves over the Maryland game. No fortitude, no energy, no passion, no confidence. 

2. While I don't mind Coach Miller allowing guys to play through mistakes, I think it should entirely depend on the mistake. Mental errors/turnovers happen but there are zero excuses for not hustling back when it happens. I think Miller should have sat Smith/Langford (and whoever else decided to quit on getting back/getting that defensive rebound). If that's the mentality guys are allowed to get away with, then we are in for another long season.

3. It blows my mind that we have 13 scholarships to give out and yet I can't find one player who fills the role of a shooter. If more teams wanted to beat IU, they would just pack all of their defensive players in more and dare us to beat them with outside shooting. 

4. Outside of the Marquette game, I've yet to walk away from a game feeling good about our offense. Other than Juwan/Romeo, half of the guys have no interest in being an offensive threat (or at the very least, giving off the impression that they are a scoring threat) and the other half try to do too much and end up settling for terrible shots that are essentially turnovers. 

[Fundamentals]

Archie Miller is a competitor.   The poor body language (not hustling back etc) may be because the last few days in Btown were tough ones for the players after coughing up a road win at Maryland.  Archie is a bit of a throwback in that he does get intense and get after players.  Is it possible some players were down or checked out because of it?  Don’t know, just searching for answers like we all are. 

I feel bad for Juwan Morgan.   Juwan represents everything right about being an IU player.   Coaching change?  Handled it like a pro.   He has shouldered the majority of the load on the interior for 2 seasons.  He has every right to be exhausted.  I think the world of Morgan.

For those who still remain positive in midst of dive: respect.

I think this is going to get a whole lot worse.  3 of next 4 on the road (Indiana is 1-4 on road, winning by 2 at PSU) and the home game is Michigan.

For peace of mind, I’ve adjusted my expectations and will not succumb to spiraling on the board.   Appreciate all you IU fans.  Hang in there.