IUFLA Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 7 minutes ago, IU Scott said: I guess I really don't care if teams use it as much as I don't understand why fans uses it as much as they do. I guess if you are a gambler or in fantasy sports you might but just for pure enjoyment of the sport I don't see where it enhances you experience at all. Til the day the Reds win the NL Central (not this year 😁) by a game and it's a David Bell move driven by analytics that won the deciding game... I think that would enhance the crap out if your experience, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 4 minutes ago, IndyResident16 said: It interests me and that’s all that matters I guess. If I as a fan, know Javy Baez consistently hits the ball up the middle and the manager for the team I root for plays him straight up, it frustrates me. Especially after he hits a ball straight up the middle for a base hit. So basically you’re saying you don’t mind when managers use analytics but you don’t understand why fans support managers who use analytics? How does that work? I guess what frustrates me more is seeing hits go through right where a defender should be but isn't because of a shift. What is worse if you put in a shift for a pull hitter don't throw off speed pitches low and out side. I have seen more than a few times this year where the batter just flicks the back out and hit a weak liner down the line with no defender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Til the day the Reds win the NL Central (not this year 😁) by a game and it's a David Bell move driven by analytics that won the deciding game... I think that would enhance the crap out if your experience, no? David Bell is not a good example because he has lost many games by his use of analytics with the pitching staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyResident16 Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 1 minute ago, IU Scott said: I guess what frustrates me more is seeing hits go through right where a defender should be but isn't because of a shift. What is worse if you put in a shift for a pull hitter don't throw off speed pitches low and out side. I have seen more than a few times this year where the batter just flicks the back out and hit a weak liner down the line with no defender. It doesn’t happen like that though, or teams wouldn’t do it. A left handed hitter who hits the ball to the right side of the infield 85% of the time is wayyyy more likely to hit right into the shift then hit through it. If it was the other way around teams wouldn’t shift, obviously. There’s numbers and data that 100% support this position. It would infuriate me more if I knew a manager had data that tells him a left handed hitter hits it to the right side 85% of the time and didn’t shift, as opposed to him hitting one the other way. Again, an anomaly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonV Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 @IndyResident16 You’re a newb and you probably already recognize but the basis of every IU Scott back and forth is rooted at the far bottom right section Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 Great article on shifts. Baseball is totally a game if adjustments. We hear it all the time. Very interesting read if you have the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyResident16 Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 1 minute ago, CrimsonV said: @IndyResident16 You’re a newb and you probably already recognize but the basis of every IUScott back and forth is rooted at the far bottom right section I’m catching on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, IndyResident16 said: I’m catching on. I just go by what I see when I watch the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-downside-of-baseballs-data-revolutionlong-games-less-action-1507043924 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, IU Scott said: https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-downside-of-baseballs-data-revolutionlong-games-less-action-1507043924 That an article, from the part I can see, and since I don't feel like subscribing to The Wall Street Journal at this particular time, all I'm going to see, that talks more about pitching changes slowing down the game. Nothing to do with analytics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyResident16 Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 5 minutes ago, IU Scott said: I just go by what I see when I watch the game Trust me, we know. However, your untrained eye cannot physical retain and compute certain trends for hundreds of MLB players spanning thousands of at bats. Physically impossible. Your eye is trained to remember anomalies, you know things that aren’t statistical bound to happen. I’ve fallen asleep close to 15,000 times in my life. I can’t recall time, setting, etc because it happens every night. On the other hand, on the rare occasion I can’t fall asleep or struggle falling asleep I remember details. It’s an anomaly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonV Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 9 minutes ago, IU Scott said: https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-downside-of-baseballs-data-revolutionlong-games-less-action-1507043924 Did you really just post a paywall article? Dude. Seriously. Take 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 5 minutes ago, IUFLA said: That an article, from the part I can see, and since I don't feel like subscribing to The Wall Street Journal at this particular time, all I'm going to see, that talks more about pitching changes slowing down the game. Nothing to do with analytics I was able to read the whole article and it had a lot about analytics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 Just now, CrimsonV said: Did you really just post a paywall article? Dude. Seriously. Take 5. I was able to read the whole article and with no pay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 9 minutes ago, IU Scott said: I just go by what I see when I watch the game Ok, let's for a minute say you're David Bell...bear with me... It's a 3-2 lead for the Cubs, bottom of the 6th, Jon Lester pitching, men on 1st and 2nd with 2 outs...Your pitcher spot is due up...Lester is actually better against right handed batters at least average wise...you have a lefty that hits lefties pretty well, but has never faced Lester, and you have a righty that is 0-9 career against Lester with 7 Ks...who would you pick? You're not double switching...this is a simple pinch hitting for your pitcher scenario... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 13 minutes ago, IU Scott said: https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-downside-of-baseballs-data-revolutionlong-games-less-action-1507043924 I guess when I went to the actual article it let me read the whole thing but when I clicked on it here it wouldn't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 5 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Ok, let's for a minute say you're David Bell...bear with me... It's a 3-2 lead for the Cubs, bottom of the 6th, Jon Lester pitching, men on 1st and 2nd with 2 outs...Your pitcher spot is due up...Lester is actually better against right handed batters at least average wise...you have a lefty that hits lefties pretty well, but has never faced Lester, and you have a righty that is 0-9 career against Lester with 7 Ks...who would you pick? You're not double switching...this is a simple pinch hitting for your pitcher scenario... I would probably go with the right hander if he is usually really good against left handers. Since Lester is a veteran and this left hander has never faced him then i assume he is very young like Van Meter and if the right hander has faced him 9 times he is more of a veteran so i would take the veteran player in that key spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyResident16 Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 8 minutes ago, CrimsonV said: Did you really just post a paywall article? Dude. Seriously. Take 5. I read it. It’s more about how the MLB is losing viewing TV viewers because games take too long, citing pitching changes and how teams are making more changes to get batters out more effectively through the use of analytics. Pretty weak attempt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierhoopster Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 Guys, again, disagree, dispute opinions, discuss away, but do it without belittling other posters. Just because the mods miss something and notice later doesn't make it ok. Keep the Board civil. This is not a point for debate. Carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 15 minutes ago, IndyResident16 said: I read it. It’s more about how the MLB is losing viewing TV viewers because games take too long, citing pitching changes and how teams are making more changes to get batters out more effectively through the use of analytics. Pretty weak attempt. I probably thought you would think it was weak because you don't agree with it. Also to me when it comes to having way more pitching changes it really hurts the relievers. I would think it is harder on their arms having to pitch 4-5 times a week and all the warm up pitches they throw before they come in. I think if the starters are trained and up to it then throwing 130 pitches in a game should not be that hard on their arms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 15 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said: Guys, again, disagree, dispute opinions, discuss away, but do it without belittling other posters. Just because the mods miss something and notice later doesn't make it ok. Keep the Board civil. This is not a point for debate. Carry on. Let me preface this by saying I have a lot of respect for this board, and the mods who run it... But I don't think pointing out that IUScott is at times obtuse is belittling him, just a fact... His dismissiveness of analytics is fine...he can have his opinion...but if you look, he makes it sound like people who enjoy discussing their use somehow have no idea about sports, at least not to his level, and think they're the "smartest guy in the room." It's a little irritating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyResident16 Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 19 minutes ago, IU Scott said: I probably thought you would think it was weak because you don't agree with it. Also to me when it comes to having way more pitching changes it really hurts the relievers. I would think it is harder on their arms having to pitch 4-5 times a week and all the warm up pitches they throw before they come in. I think if the starters are trained and up to it then throwing 130 pitches in a game should not be that hard on their arms. Clearly you haven't stopped watching baseball have you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierhoopster Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 4 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Let me preface this by saying I have a lot of respect for this board, and the mods who run it... But I don't think pointing out that IUScott is at times obtuse is belittling him, just a fact... His dismissiveness of analytics is fine...he can have his opinion...but if you look, he makes it sound like people who enjoy discussing their use somehow have no idea about sports, at least not to his level, and think they're the "smartest guy in the room." It's a little irritating. I’m only going to say this one more time, keeping it civil and not belittling posters is not up for debate. Feel free to pm me or any of the mods if stuff gets under your skin. Also consider that the discussion with posters (further to this kind of stuff, with mods) generally is in pm’s. That’s where it belongs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyResident16 Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 20 minutes ago, IU Scott said: I probably thought you would think it was weak because you don't agree with it. Also to me when it comes to having way more pitching changes it really hurts the relievers. I would think it is harder on their arms having to pitch 4-5 times a week and all the warm up pitches they throw before they come in. I think if the starters are trained and up to it then throwing 130 pitches in a game should not be that hard on their arms. You're arguing against physics. Guys could throw 130 pitches a game and 300+ innings a year because they weren't throwing 98 mph fastballs and 90 mph sliders every other pitch. The average fastball in the 60s and 70s was in the mid-80s. It's up to 93 MPH today. You can't physically throw that many pitches at that speed and maintain your health. Arms aren't meant to work like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, IndyResident16 said: You're arguing against physics. Guys could throw 130 pitches a game and 300+ innings a year because they weren't throwing 98 mph fastballs and 90 mph sliders every other pitch. The average fastball in the 60s and 70s was in the mid-80s. It's up to 93 MPH today. You can't physically throw that many pitches at that speed and maintain your health. Arms aren't meant to work like that. you don't have to throw every pitch at full capacity to be a really good pitcher. Also if pitchers did not think they have to strike out everyone and get outs on a couple of pitches then your pitch count would not get so high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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