IndyResident16 Posted August 16, 2019 Report Share Posted August 16, 2019 17 minutes ago, IU Scott said: Like I said if all of this stuff was suppose to help pitchers from getting injured it is not working. Arms are more precious because velocity is up and there is much torque on the ligaments than ever before. I know you want to believe that pitchers in the 60s, 70s, and 80s were the greatest ever, but pitchers today are bigger and stronger than ever before. This absolutely makes a difference. You have to be able to throw harder with more movement on your pitchers to get hitters out in this day in age and physically guys just can't do it for 130 pitches a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billingsley99 Posted August 16, 2019 Report Share Posted August 16, 2019 18 minutes ago, IU Scott said: Like I said if all of this stuff was suppose to help pitchers from getting injured it is not working. It is working like others have said. The old guys just sucked it up and played made a great living and the next young stud was on there heals so they pitch through injury. Dont tell anyone just suck it up and throw. Now days both sides have tone of money on the line. You have soreness or stiffness you skip a start. Back in the day if the arm was still attached you threw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted August 16, 2019 Report Share Posted August 16, 2019 Just now, rico said: I have no problem with what Maddon or Bell did last night. In Joe's case the Cubs' pen pissed away a 5 run lead in 2 innings and got the L. In Bell's case the Reds' pen pitched 4 innings of 1 run, 1 hit ball and got the win. I knew Gray couldn't complete the game or go more than 1 more inning last night but talking more about the whole year in general. Gray's problem especially last night was he just not efficient with his pitches last night. What I hate is when pitchers get ahead 0-2 and then start nibbling the corners and next thing you know it is 2-2 count. I am not saying just throw the ball right down the middle but at least make it look like a strike coming out of your hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted August 16, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2019 1 minute ago, IU Scott said: Well there are two fan bases on here that is constantly complaining how their bullpen keeps blowing leads. I feel it is harder on the bullpen to have to cover 3 and 4 innings consistently over 162 game season. You have forgotten about the Nasty Boys? Have the lead after 6 and trot out Charlton, Dibble, and Myers to cover the last 3 innings. That was 30 years ago... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted August 16, 2019 Report Share Posted August 16, 2019 Just now, rico said: You have forgotten about the Nasty Boys? Have the lead after 6 and trot out Charlton, Dibble, and Myers to cover the last 3 innings. That was 30 years ago... They did not always all pitch on the same day and the bullpen did not always pitch the last 3 innings. Remember the 90 playoff run and Rio pitched 8 innings a couple of games and the clinching game in the World Series he went 8 2/3 and I was upset when they took him out in the 9th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billingsley99 Posted August 16, 2019 Report Share Posted August 16, 2019 21 minutes ago, IU Scott said: Well there are two fan bases on here that is constantly complaining how their bullpen keeps blowing leads. I feel it is harder on the bullpen to have to cover 3 and 4 innings consistently over 162 game season. Let me get this straight. You dont know have 7 to 9 guys can be expected to carry load of 3 to 4 innings for 162 games but you expect 5 guys to carry 7 or 8 innings for 162 games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted August 16, 2019 Report Share Posted August 16, 2019 Well, Scott...I've come to the conclusion that you would outlast Ted Turner as a manager...maybe... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted August 16, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2019 1 minute ago, IU Scott said: They did not always all pitch on the same day and the bullpen did not always pitch the last 3 innings. Remember the 90 playoff run and Rio pitched 8 innings a couple of games and the clinching game in the World Series he went 8 2/3 and I was upset when they took him out in the 9th. And how did Jose's HoF career pan out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyResident16 Posted August 16, 2019 Report Share Posted August 16, 2019 20 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said: It is working like others have said. The old guys just sucked it up and played made a great living and the next young stud was on there heals so they pitch through injury. Dont tell anyone just suck it up and throw. Now days both sides have tone of money on the line. You have soreness or stiffness you skip a start. Back in the day if the arm was still attached you threw Right? I guarantee if Nolan Ryan was making $25/mil a year he's not throwing a 150 pitches an outing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted August 16, 2019 Report Share Posted August 16, 2019 3 minutes ago, rico said: And how did Jose's HoF career pan out? He had a pretty good career if you asked me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billingsley99 Posted August 16, 2019 Report Share Posted August 16, 2019 17 minutes ago, IndyResident16 said: Right? I guarantee if Nolan Ryan was making $25/mil a year he's not throwing a 150 pitches an outing. Bingo. Endless stories of former players sacrificing their health to not become the next Wally Pipp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted August 16, 2019 Report Share Posted August 16, 2019 4 minutes ago, IndyResident16 said: Right? I guarantee if Nolan Ryan was making $25/mil a year he's not throwing a 150 pitches an outing. Yet, Nolan never really had major arm issues pitching hard and all of those innings. I just don't agree that pitchers have to throw 97-100 on every pitch to get hitters out. When you put that much effort on every pitch then yes you will get worn out earlier in a game and can't go deep. it is better if you can get outs on 2-3 pitches in at bat instead of having to throw 7-8 pitches to get an batter out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted August 16, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, IU Scott said: He had a pretty good career if you asked me His career was cut short due to arm problems...geez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted August 16, 2019 Report Share Posted August 16, 2019 Just now, rico said: His career was cut short due to arm problems...geez. I would rather have a shorter career and be great over being around along time and be average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted August 16, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, IU Scott said: I would rather have a shorter career and be great over being around along time and be average. WTH? What does that have to do with Rijo and this discussion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted August 16, 2019 Report Share Posted August 16, 2019 6 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said: Bingo. Endless stories of former players sacrificing their health to not become the next Wally Pipp Gotta love Wally Pipp references! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billingsley99 Posted August 16, 2019 Report Share Posted August 16, 2019 21 minutes ago, IU Scott said: Yet, Nolan never really had major arm issues pitching hard and all of those innings. I just don't agree that pitchers have to throw 97-100 on every pitch to get hitters out. When you put that much effort on every pitch then yes you will get worn out earlier in a game and can't go deep. it is better if you can get outs on 2-3 pitches in at bat instead of having to throw 7-8 pitches to get an batter out. It does not take much less effort if Amy to throw a 97 MPH fastball as a 80 Mph curve or slider. In fact much more torgue and supplication on the elbow. Chris Sale is quickest to 2000 K's and he has nasty stuff not just a 98 MPH fastball. 12 of the 17 guys to record 3000 K's pitched in your good old days and before. So trying got strike every batter out is not a new thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyResident16 Posted August 16, 2019 Report Share Posted August 16, 2019 20 minutes ago, IU Scott said: Yet, Nolan never really had major arm issues pitching hard and all of those innings. I just don't agree that pitchers have to throw 97-100 on every pitch to get hitters out. When you put that much effort on every pitch then yes you will get worn out earlier in a game and can't go deep. it is better if you can get outs on 2-3 pitches in at bat instead of having to throw 7-8 pitches to get an batter out. You're missing the point. You have throw with that velocity and torque to put movement on your pitchers to get hitters out these days, especially in the long ball era. Hitters are going to eat up pitchers who only throw 88-90, especially third time through the order. I know you're going to use Maddux as an example and he's a one of a kind talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted August 16, 2019 Report Share Posted August 16, 2019 1 minute ago, IndyResident16 said: You're missing the point. You have throw with that velocity and torque to put movement on your pitchers to get hitters out these days, especially in the long ball era. Hitters are going to eat up pitchers who only throw 88-90, especially third time through the order. I know you're going to use Maddux as an example and he's a one of a kind talent. How about Glavine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billingsley99 Posted August 16, 2019 Report Share Posted August 16, 2019 22 minutes ago, IU Scott said: I would rather have a shorter career and be great over being around along time and be average. Why cant you both. The Hall is full of them and it will continue to be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyResident16 Posted August 16, 2019 Report Share Posted August 16, 2019 16 minutes ago, IU Scott said: How about Glavine Again, a HoF pitcher. There's guys like Hendricks and Kershaw who has lost velocity that can get it done, but on average you need pitchers with swing and miss type pitches to consistently get hitters out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted August 16, 2019 Report Share Posted August 16, 2019 Just now, Billingsley99 said: Why cant you both. The Hall is full of them and it will continue to be Not saying you can't have both but he made it sound that Rio's career was not as good because it ended early. Just like Koufax who was brilliant for 6 and 7 years and I would rather have that than a pitcher who was around long time but was never great. it just seems like it is more about having your pitchers for longevity over actually being a great pitcher. For me I wouldn't consider a pitcher great if he will only give you 5-6 innings a start. I also don't know why an owner would give long term high dollar contract to starting pitchers if you are only going to give me 5 innings. it is like the RB in football where they are becoming more and more devalued and they are not willing to give them long term contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted August 16, 2019 Report Share Posted August 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, IndyResident16 said: Again, a HoF pitcher. There's guys like Hendricks and Kershaw who has lost velocity that can get it done, but on average you need pitchers with swing and miss type pitches to consistently get hitters out. Just don't agree with that but it is what it is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted August 16, 2019 Report Share Posted August 16, 2019 Maybe Scott is Crash Davis... "Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring. Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. It's more democratic." Except I can't see him making the "Well, I believe in the soul" speech to Annie... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billingsley99 Posted August 16, 2019 Report Share Posted August 16, 2019 21 minutes ago, IU Scott said: How about Glavine For every Maddux and Glavine there are 10 Pedro's and Randy Johnson's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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