FritzIam4IU Posted September 22, 2019 Report Share Posted September 22, 2019 22 minutes ago, Stlboiler23 said: I think Girardi is a downgrade from Maddon. I don't think he is...I know the rumors are that the cubs might hire Ross as manager, but I can't see Theo hiring an inexperienced manager unless he is blowing up the team, which I doubt he does. I see Maddon ending up in San Diego or perhaps Philly next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proud2BAHoosier Posted September 22, 2019 Report Share Posted September 22, 2019 7 hours ago, rico said: He was referencing Gerrit Cole of the Astros. Beware the Yankees.... They will be looking at starting pitching as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FritzIam4IU Posted September 22, 2019 Report Share Posted September 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, Proud2BAHoosier said: Beware the Yankees.... They will be looking at starting pitching as well Yep. The Yankees and potentially the Cubs and probably several other teams will be "in" on Cole. I know the Cubbies have some money coming off the books this year, including the 20 million they are paying Cole Hamels this season, but it will be an interesting off season for Theo to see what he decides to do with this group of underachievers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FKIM01 Posted September 23, 2019 Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 3 hours ago, IUFLA said: You'll have to explain that statement to me. When the Cubs needed a bat, Epstein went and got Castellanos. When they needed a closer, he got what was thought to be the best available closer. The GM is responsible for supplying the talent, and the manager is tasked with putting together the lineup, managing the pitching staff, and motivating the team. I know where I see the failure in the execution of those tasks... Oh I get that Maddon will get his share of the heat and will likely be the scapegoat and get fired. I'm not convinced he's the bulk of the problem though. Theo assembled his talent with the second-highest payroll in baseball and I don't see the Cubs as being anywhere near the second most talented club. If I were handicapping them off the top of my head. I'd guess top 10-ish. That, arguably falls on the GM and while you can point to injuries/bad coaching/underachieving, I think more than one example of overpaying for talent is on that roster. That's on Theo, IMO. I'm not as sold on him as a lot of Cubs fans are, even though fans are right to be grateful for 2016, kind of like IU fans were (mostly) grateful for Tom Crean resurrecting IU basketball. at least to a degree. I think Theo is a little overvalued with the Cubs kind of like Brohm is with Purdue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking6 Posted September 23, 2019 Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 9 hours ago, FKIM01 said: Oh I get that Maddon will get his share of the heat and will likely be the scapegoat and get fired. I'm not convinced he's the bulk of the problem though. Theo assembled his talent with the second-highest payroll in baseball and I don't see the Cubs as being anywhere near the second most talented club. If I were handicapping them off the top of my head. I'd guess top 10-ish. That, arguably falls on the GM and while you can point to injuries/bad coaching/underachieving, I think more than one example of overpaying for talent is on that roster. That's on Theo, IMO. I'm not as sold on him as a lot of Cubs fans are, even though fans are right to be grateful for 2016, kind of like IU fans were (mostly) grateful for Tom Crean resurrecting IU basketball. at least to a degree. I think Theo is a little overvalued with the Cubs kind of like Brohm is with Purdue. You seem to imply Theo "assembled his talent with 2nd highest payroll"....just paid for all these players. Just a friendly reminder Theo drafted and/or traded for about 80% of this teams title and 4 straight playoff appearing teams. Free agent signings have been Lester, Zobrist, Heyward, and Yu.....the rest is all draft and trades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking6 Posted September 23, 2019 Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 One week left to go. Didn't see losing 5 straight by one run coming. I think I read it's been a hundred years since something like that happened. Much like I didn't see IU losing 12 of 13 last year. Sports do weird things to us fans. I've got nothing to offer on Cubs other than pray for a miracle this week. Otherwise I won't be disappointed for this season to end. Frustrating a group as IU was last year during their losing streaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking6 Posted September 23, 2019 Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 12 hours ago, FritzIam4IU said: I don't think he is...I know the rumors are that the cubs might hire Ross as manager, but I can't see Theo hiring an inexperienced manager unless he is blowing up the team, which I doubt he does. I see Maddon ending up in San Diego or perhaps Philly next year. Ross removed his name from consideration months ago. Time will tell on the Cubs but if we lose Maddon I'll be filing that under the "be careful what you wish for" section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlboiler23 Posted September 23, 2019 Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Seeking6 said: You seem to imply Theo "assembled his talent with 2nd highest payroll"....just paid for all these players. Just a friendly reminder Theo drafted and/or traded for about 80% of this teams title and 4 straight playoff appearing teams. Free agent signings have been Lester, Zobrist, Heyward, and Yu.....the rest is all draft and trades. He had the benefit of having several top 10 picks though didn’t he? Mostly aided by 5 pretty awful years between 2010 and 2014. No doubt he made some good trades along the way but the cubs being awful for several years certainly helped land some of those high draft picks. Side note but what are your thoughts on Almora? I feel like that ball Martínez hit should’ve been caught. The guy can’t hit and if he can’t make catches like that, that’s a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking6 Posted September 23, 2019 Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 12 minutes ago, Stlboiler23 said: He had the benefit of having several top 10 picks though didn’t he? Mostly aided by 5 pretty awful years between 2010 and 2014. No doubt he made some good trades along the way but the cubs being awful for several years certainly helped land some of those high draft picks. Side note but what are your thoughts on Almora? I feel like that ball Martínez hit should’ve been caught. The guy can’t hit and if he can’t make catches like that, that’s a problem. Don't get me started on Almora. Yes. Should have been caught. If you look at play his first 2 steps were in. When I think of getting a guy like Merrifield....I would gladly overpay and send Almora/Happ/Russell or any combination to get him. He's a proven leadoff guy who can play 2nd base. 2 birds 1 stone. Theo has lamented all season long about leadoff production. Go get him. Some will say Russell and his history,etc....but that's why KC works. They've looked the other way on Tyreek Hill. What's one more in a community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FritzIam4IU Posted September 23, 2019 Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Seeking6 said: Ross removed his name from consideration months ago. Time will tell on the Cubs but if we lose Maddon I'll be filing that under the "be careful what you wish for" section. He might have said something publicly to deflect attention...or maybe he really doesn't want to manage but there is a lot of smoke regarding Ross. I'm not convinced it's not Girardi...and the article also mentions Loretta as a possibility. https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/joe-maddon-rumors-chicago-cubs-david-ross-560804401.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted September 23, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 The Cubs just picked a piss poor time to go on a losing streak. Maybe my Reds can slow down the Brew Crew? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FritzIam4IU Posted September 23, 2019 Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 And this about sums it up for the hugely disappointing cubs this season... https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/columnist/bob-nightengale/2019/09/23/chicago-cubs-joe-maddon-mlb-cardinals/2416935001/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted September 23, 2019 Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 I have figured out how the Reds can win next year and that is the MLB shorten the games to one inning. The Reds lead the national league in runs scored and every offensive category in the first inning. The problem is that overall the Reds are 12th in runs scored in the NL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlboiler23 Posted September 23, 2019 Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 35 minutes ago, rico said: The Cubs just picked a piss poor time to go on a losing streak. Maybe my Reds can slow down the Brew Crew? They’ll do a better job than the Pirates. Talk about completely giving up on the season. Pirates lineup yesterday was embarrassing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted September 23, 2019 Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 12 hours ago, FKIM01 said: Oh I get that Maddon will get his share of the heat and will likely be the scapegoat and get fired. I'm not convinced he's the bulk of the problem though. Theo assembled his talent with the second-highest payroll in baseball and I don't see the Cubs as being anywhere near the second most talented club. If I were handicapping them off the top of my head. I'd guess top 10-ish. That, arguably falls on the GM and while you can point to injuries/bad coaching/underachieving, I think more than one example of overpaying for talent is on that roster. That's on Theo, IMO. I'm not as sold on him as a lot of Cubs fans are, even though fans are right to be grateful for 2016, kind of like IU fans were (mostly) grateful for Tom Crean resurrecting IU basketball. at least to a degree. I think Theo is a little overvalued with the Cubs kind of like Brohm is with Purdue. The Cubs have guys that have been to multiple all-star games at 3 of the 4 infield positions, and catcher, an all-star selection and perrenial Gold Glover in the outfield, another outfielder who has will be close to 40 HRs and 100 RBI, 4 of their 5 starters have been all stars, and the one who wasn't has an ERA title. Their closer is a former rookie of the year and has 7 all star selections. That is a talented roster. Theo overvalued? I don't know. The guy DID win the World Series in each of his 2 stops, at 2 places that hadn't won in a combined 197 years. Pretty impressive to me. You can buy the best groceries in the world, but if the chef isn't cooking them right, you'll have mediocre food. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted September 23, 2019 Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 51 minutes ago, rico said: The Cubs just picked a piss poor time to go on a losing streak. Maybe my Reds can slow down the Brew Crew? Twice in 2 years seems more like a trend than an anomaly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking6 Posted September 23, 2019 Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 57 minutes ago, rico said: The Cubs just picked a piss poor time to go on a losing streak. Maybe my Reds can slow down the Brew Crew? 57-59 since May 14th. 116 games is a pretty good sample size in my book. Either the players aren't doing their thing or the message isn't being received. So much talent on a roster and to be below .500 at all is just unthinkable. Although look at the Red Sox. Some stuff in baseball just isn't explainable I guess because I really don't have any answers or solutions at this point besides the 3 moves I want done this off season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted September 23, 2019 Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 12 minutes ago, Seeking6 said: 57-59 since May 14th. 116 games is a pretty good sample size in my book. Either the players aren't doing their thing or the message isn't being received. So much talent on a roster and to be below .500 at all is just unthinkable. Although look at the Red Sox. Some stuff in baseball just isn't explainable I guess because I really don't have any answers or solutions at this point besides the 3 moves I want done this off season. It does look like a talented group on paper but maybe people are over estimating that talent especially pitching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking6 Posted September 23, 2019 Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 3 minutes ago, IU Scott said: It does look like a talented group on paper but maybe people are over estimating that talent especially pitching. This isn't directed at you personally but you don't make 4 straight playoff appearances, 2 division titles, 3 NLCS appearances and 1 World Series Championship over 4 years without being talented. Cubs are only team in baseball who have said this success over the previous 4 years. No one else has accomplished what they have. No one. World Series yes...but playoffs 4 years in a row no one else has matched that which is why I kind of dismiss when people say the talent isn't there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted September 23, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 3 minutes ago, Seeking6 said: This isn't directed at you personally but you don't make 4 straight playoff appearances, 2 division titles, 3 NLCS appearances and 1 World Series Championship over 4 years without being talented. Cubs are only team in baseball who have said this success over the previous 4 years. No one else has accomplished what they have. No one. World Series yes...but playoffs 4 years in a row no one else has matched that which is why I kind of dismiss when people say the talent isn't there. Pretty much spot on. My Cub buddy called again last night and he has taken the plunge off the cliff! LOL But anyway, he brought up the Reds and the Dodgers of the 70's. Both teams were very talented, but he mentioned that both seemed to make changes to their personnel every year and still continued to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted September 23, 2019 Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 12 minutes ago, Seeking6 said: This isn't directed at you personally but you don't make 4 straight playoff appearances, 2 division titles, 3 NLCS appearances and 1 World Series Championship over 4 years without being talented. Cubs are only team in baseball who have said this success over the previous 4 years. No one else has accomplished what they have. No one. World Series yes...but playoffs 4 years in a row no one else has matched that which is why I kind of dismiss when people say the talent isn't there. But there are some key players from the world series team no longer on the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted September 23, 2019 Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, rico said: Pretty much spot on. My Cub buddy called again last night and he has taken the plunge off the cliff! LOL But anyway, he brought up the Reds and the Dodgers of the 70's. Both teams were very talented, but he mentioned that both seemed to make changes to their personnel every year and still continued to win. I would say the key pieces to those reds and Dodgers teams stayed pretty much intact. Reds-Rose, Bench, Morgan, Concepcion, Perez, Geronimo, Griffey and they brought in Foster in the middle of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted September 23, 2019 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 3 minutes ago, IU Scott said: I would say the key pieces to those reds and Dodgers teams stayed pretty much intact. Reds-Rose, Bench, Morgan, Concepcion, Perez, Geronimo, Griffey and they brought in Foster in the middle of that. And you would be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted September 23, 2019 Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 6 minutes ago, rico said: And you would be wrong. Most of those players were the key part of the big Red machine. I know Morgan was traded but wasn't that like in 72 so he was a big part of that team for most of that run. Just looked at the Reds roster back then and when the players came to the Reds that I mentioned above. Bench, Rose, Concepcion and Perez was on the roster in 1970. 71- Foster came to the Reds 72- Morgan and Geronimo came to the Reds 73- Griffey came to the Reds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking6 Posted September 23, 2019 Report Share Posted September 23, 2019 7 minutes ago, IU Scott said: But there are some key players from the world series team no longer on the team. Few guys sure. Fowler, Jake, backup catcher Ross.....but the rest of the core is still all there and you have to think they would improve over the last 2-3 seasons. Just a bad year. No explanation has made sense to me yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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