Artesian_86 Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 I really wanted to know what kind of team/players Archie Miller recruits and wants at IU. So I wanted to know his coaching philosophy and this is what I found. After you read this, and seeing the dynamics of this Crean recruited/Miller recruited team, can Archie really sell his philosophy to this current team? Read and you be the judge. (ARCHIE MILLER BASKETBALL PHILOSOPHY) Archie Miller employs a structured transition offense intended to open up games, create foul trouble for opponents, and score before the defense can get set. His offensive approach has been called "one of the most complete transition offensive systems you will find." He frequently uses a "Phoenix fast break" with players pushing the ball off of rebounds and turnovers in a flexible system that can take on a variety of alignments. He will modify the Phoenix break based on personnel to accommodate five guards or two post players on the floor at once. If an opponent scores, Miller employs a "Carolina transition offense" to create scoring opportunities which flow right into a motion offense.[8] The identity of Miller's teams are rooted in defense. He employs a "pack line defense," which is a variation of man-to-man defense invented by Dick Bennett at Wisconsin and also employed by Tony Bennett at Virginia and Tom Izzo at Michigan State, among others.[9][10] Instead of the off-ball defenders pressuring their player and denying the pass, everyone except the player guarding the ball must be inside an imaginary line 16 feet from the rim. At all times a defender pressures the player with the basketball, while the other four defenders play in gap/help positions. However, if the offensive player picks up the dribble, all players go out and deny looking for the steal. The pack line defense is intended to discourage penetration, getting inside the paint, and forces opponents to win with a well executed offense and good outside shooting.[11] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 Here's how I see it (by individual player): Offense/Defense: Romeo - Yes/Yes Devonte - Yes/Yes Al - No/No Rob - No/Yes Morgan - Yes/Yes Smith - Yes/Yes McRoberts - No/Yes Fitzner - No/No De'Ron - No/Yes Cliff - Yes/No Jake - Yes/Incomplete Damezi - No/No Jerome/Race - Incomplete/Incomplete Edit - I overlooked the word 'smart'. I based mine more on the player's style of play . For example, Rob is certainly a 'smart' point guard, more so than Devonte. But, Devonte's style fits Archie's philosophy of pushing the ball better than Rob's does. Rob is most effective in the half-court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierJax Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 I don't understand the Crean recruit/Archie recruit...all the guys on the team have been around Archie going on 2 years,know what he wants...the Freshman were recruited by him and staff....if the players don't understand pack line,Phoenix break,Carolina transition then maybe they don't understand basketball,I'm sure they have practiced all these things several times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milehiiu Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 1 minute ago, HoosierJax said: I don't understand the Crean recruit/Archie recruit...all the guys on the team have been around Archie going on 2 years,know what he wants...the Freshman were recruited by him and staff....if the players don't understand pack line,Phoenix break,Carolina transition then maybe they don't understand basketball,I'm sure they have practiced all these things several times. You make a good point. All the Crean guys ARE Miller recruits. With the exception of Grant Gelon... Archie talked all the remaining kids in staying at IU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbmhoosier Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 2 minutes ago, HoosierJax said: I don't understand the Crean recruit/Archie recruit...all the guys on the team have been around Archie going on 2 years,know what he wants...the Freshman were recruited by him and staff....if the players don't understand pack line,Phoenix break,Carolina transition then maybe they don't understand basketball,I'm sure they have practiced all these things several times. You may be right. I do know though that Tony Bennett is a terrific coach and VA was awful his first few years there. Every since year 5 he's had them rolling though. Maybe his system just takes time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbmhoosier Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 4 minutes ago, milehiiu said: You make a good point. All the Crean guys ARE Miller recruits. With the exception of Grant Gelon... Archie talked all the remaining kids in staying at IU. True but I'd bet you almost anything that if Smith, Moore, or Durham were in the 2019 class none of them would get an IU offer. Archie knew he had a bad roster and had to take what he could get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milehiiu Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 3 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said: True but I'd bet you almost anything that if Smith, Moore, or Durham were in the 2019 class none of them would get an IU offer. Archie knew he had a bad roster and had to take what he could get. All the while, McKinley Wright, a kid who committed to Archie when Archie was at Dayton, is setting the PAC 12 on fire at Colorado. Archie went after Crean's kids ( which I don't blame him for doing) and left Wright to fend for himself. Pleased that McKinley chose Colorado, as I love watching him... but sure would have loved seeing him in Candy Stripes instead. Oh, well.... there's only 13 scholarships per team. LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierJax Posted January 15, 2019 Report Share Posted January 15, 2019 1 minute ago, dbmhoosier said: True but I'd bet you almost anything that if Smith, Moore, or Durham were in the 2019 class none of them would get an IU offer. Archie knew he had a bad roster and had to take what he could get. He did re-recruit Smith ,Moore and Durham when he got here,but I would say that at the time of his hire it was probably easier to talk them into staying committed then to hit the road and try and find 3 new ones...but yes none would have been pursued by cam if given different circumstances....for one none is from Indiana,inside out...of the 3 imo Moore is the only one I would want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steubenhoosier Posted January 16, 2019 Report Share Posted January 16, 2019 42 minutes ago, milehiiu said: All the while, McKinley Wright, a kid who committed to Archie when Archie was at Dayton, is setting the PAC 12 on fire at Colorado. Archie went after Crean's kids ( which I don't blame him for doing) and left Wright to fend for himself. Pleased that McKinley chose Colorado, as I love watching him... but sure would have loved seeing him in Candy Stripes instead. Oh, well.... there's only 13 scholarships per team. LOL. Woulda shoulda coulda. Looking through the rear view mirror is unproductive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steubenhoosier Posted January 16, 2019 Report Share Posted January 16, 2019 57 minutes ago, HoosierJax said: I don't understand the Crean recruit/Archie recruit...all the guys on the team have been around Archie going on 2 years,know what he wants...the Freshman were recruited by him and staff....if the players don't understand pack line,Phoenix break,Carolina transition then maybe they don't understand basketball,I'm sure they have practiced all these things several times. Has nothing to do with “understanding “. Kids have varying physical attributes. Crean recruited kids, especially bigs, who ran the floor and played his version of Euroball/ position-less basketball. Archie wants kids who are physically tough and able to hold their own defensively and in a half court offense. Different skill set, different body types required to execute the different offenses. Until CAM gets his players in place, his offense will struggle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddy River Posted January 16, 2019 Report Share Posted January 16, 2019 50 minutes ago, milehiiu said: All the while, McKinley Wright, a kid who committed to Archie when Archie was at Dayton, is setting the PAC 12 on fire at Colorado. Archie went after Crean's kids ( which I don't blame him for doing) and left Wright to fend for himself. Pleased that McKinley chose Colorado, as I love watching him... but sure would have loved seeing him in Candy Stripes instead. Oh, well.... there's only 13 scholarships per team. LOL. Meh. All things considered, long term health of the program, state of recruiting, and so on, I'd rather have Rob Phinisee, He's going to be a sharp stick in the eye of boiler fans. I don't think Rob would be here if Wright was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierJax Posted January 16, 2019 Report Share Posted January 16, 2019 I don't think Deron,who was recruited by Crean is a big who runs the floor and played his version of Euroball... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted January 16, 2019 Report Share Posted January 16, 2019 A good/great coach changes his philosophy to fit the team's personnel. He has what he has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steubenhoosier Posted January 16, 2019 Report Share Posted January 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, rico said: A good/great coach changes his philosophy to fit the team's personnel. He has what he has. Maybe after he has gotten established. Hardly in year two. Not only is CAM establishing a base for this team, he is creating a message for future recruits as to what he is building. If this was Coach K and he had to adjust to the recruiting class he just brought in, different story. Creating an identity that is 180 degrees from what Crean espoused, CAM needs to stick to his guns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotIThatLives Posted January 16, 2019 Report Share Posted January 16, 2019 47 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said: Maybe after he has gotten established. Hardly in year two. Not only is CAM establishing a base for this team, he is creating a message for future recruits as to what he is building. If this was Coach K and he had to adjust to the recruiting class he just brought in, different story. Creating an identity that is 180 degrees from what Crean espoused, CAM needs to stick to his guns What message is being sent to recruits? Do you see anything that resembles a Carolina transition offense? They walk to ball up the floor or rarely look to get out and go. Maybe it is by design to reign in careless turnovers before lossening back up but there are multi guys that are timid to shoot the ball now 2 years in a row. It's not a pretty flowing form of basketball that would appeal to any recruits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted January 16, 2019 Report Share Posted January 16, 2019 12 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said: Maybe after he has gotten established. Hardly in year two. Not only is CAM establishing a base for this team, he is creating a message for future recruits as to what he is building. If this was Coach K and he had to adjust to the recruiting class he just brought in, different story. Creating an identity that is 180 degrees from what Crean espoused, CAM needs to stick to his guns Well I hope sticking to his guns produces wins.....no matter what his philosophy is, winning is what counts at IU. How many years was RMK at IU before he got them to a FF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steubenhoosier Posted January 16, 2019 Report Share Posted January 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said: What message is being sent to recruits? Do you see anything that resembles a Carolina transition offense? They walk to ball up the floor or rarely loom to get out and go. Maybe it is by design to reign in careless turnovers before lossening back up bit there are multi guys that are timid to shoot the ball now 2 years in a row. It's not a pretty flowing form of basketball that would appeal to any recruits. Who said anything about Carolina’s offense. That was Crean ball to the core and didn’t hold up to teams that could turn a game into half court. Give me tough minded kids who don’t mind scrapping and value defense and ball possession every time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steubenhoosier Posted January 16, 2019 Report Share Posted January 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, rico said: Well I hope sticking to his guns produces wins.....no matter what his philosophy is, winning is what counts at IU. How many years was RMK at IU before he got them to a FF? Two- three maybe. Not sure how that is in any way relevant though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierJax Posted January 16, 2019 Report Share Posted January 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, rico said: Well I hope sticking to his guns produces wins.....no matter what his philosophy is, winning is what counts at IU. How many years was RMK at IU before he got them to a FF? I think it was one,might have been two...he did have Lou Watson's recruits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CauseThatsMyDJ Posted January 16, 2019 Report Share Posted January 16, 2019 11 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said: What message is being sent to recruits? Do you see anything that resembles a Carolina transition offense? They walk to ball up the floor or rarely loom to get out and go. Maybe it is by design to reign in careless turnovers before lossening back up bit there are multi guys that are timid to shoot the ball now 2 years in a row. It's not a pretty flowing form of basketball that would appeal to any recruits. Archie has to have tape to show to recruits when he tells them how he will use them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted January 16, 2019 Report Share Posted January 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said: Two- three maybe. Not sure how that is in any way relevant though Miller came in with Crean's recruits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iuthruandthru Posted January 16, 2019 Report Share Posted January 16, 2019 I posted a similar question in the post game thread. I think this question is very key to the overall establishment of what kind of coach Archie will be at IU. Also I asked does Archie now need to prepare to adapt more at this level and the high lever recruits he will get? Also I feel Crean was too rigid with his system and not adapting to player skills each season as necessary. At this level as Indiana has 5 star after five star considering IU how can you not adjust your offense as needed? I think the next few years will be very interesting with the implementation of his systems and the adjusts or lack there of that are made. No matter what I think a baseline needs to be established but it has to be somewhat flexible as personnel and opponents dictate best play options, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted January 16, 2019 Report Share Posted January 16, 2019 How many years was Mike Davis here before he went to a FF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steubenhoosier Posted January 16, 2019 Report Share Posted January 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, rico said: Miller came in with Crean's recruits. Which set him back a year or two Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steubenhoosier Posted January 16, 2019 Report Share Posted January 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, rico said: How many years was Mike Davis here before he went to a FF? So , you are of the belief coaches don’t matter then, as that wasn’t Davis’ doing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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