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Archie Miller's coaching philosophy...Is this current team smart enough for Archie's standards?


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2 minutes ago, Artesian_86 said:

......"current conditions seem favorable!"

thanks for the input, just trying to gauge if people think that IU is gradually improving, staying steady or getting worse.  Obviously by year 4 with Archie I would hope Archie is able to do what Crean had did in year 4, if not more. 

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2 minutes ago, dwtaylor1055 said:

thanks for the input, just trying to gauge if people think that IU is gradually improving, staying steady or getting worse.  Obviously by year 4 with Archie I would hope Archie is able to do what Crean had did in year 4, if not more. 

Archie is already ahead of Crean.  But Archie didn't come in where the cupboard was bare as Tom did.  

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1 minute ago, rico said:

Archie is already ahead of Crean.  But Archie didn't come in where the cupboard was bare as Tom did.  

very true, valid statement.  I really think if the injuries had not happened to the extinct that they have(Race/Hunter/etc), we would be having a different discussion.  I think all of these injuries have set back the team a little which sucks but they have to figure out how to push through that adversity.  Trusting one another is key, I worry trust is lost amongst a few of the guys. 

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I think Archie is the right guy. Nobody said this was going to be easy or immediate. People don't like excuses, but the health of this team has made for some interesting rotations. Fitzner has also been a big letdown. I do think it's time to play Moore, Anderson, and Forrester way more. See what you have. We're not winning the Big Ten etc. this year. Archie has to find some offense besides the big two. I will be more disappointed if they don't compete against PU. 

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1 minute ago, dwtaylor1055 said:

very true, valid statement.  I really think if the injuries had not happened to the extinct that they have(Race/Hunter/etc), we would be having a different discussion.  I think all of these injuries have set back the team a little which sucks but they have to figure out how to push through that adversity.  Trusting one another is key, I worry trust is lost amongst a few of the guys. 

Ya can't do nothing about the injuries.  It is a great "excuse".  But the fact is we arguably have 2 of the best 5 players in the B1G.  They have played all year.  The supporting cast just hasn't been there.  But there are pieces there to work with.  And some pieces that just don't work.

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1 minute ago, rico said:

Ya can't do nothing about the injuries.  It is a great "excuse".  But the fact is we arguably have 2 of the best 5 players in the B1G.  They have played all year.  The supporting cast just hasn't been there.  But there are pieces there to work with.  And some pieces that just don't work.

yes sir! I would like to see a lineup of RP/Demezi/Romeo/Smith/Morgan with Durham/Green/DeRon/Moore sprinkled in as first reserves off the bench.  At all costs, either Romeo or Morgan should be on the floor, they should never be on the bench together unless they both have 2 fouls with 5 mins to go in the first half.    If Moore struggles, go back to Fitzner.  If Demezi struggles go back to McRob.  If Moore struggles try Jake before Fitzner.   

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55 minutes ago, dwtaylor1055 said:

just curious, would anyone consider this current season be towards the back end of rebuilding the program?  So say next year we are out of a "rebuild"?

 

It took Crean 4 years to build something back up at IU, Archie has been here 21 months, he will get there. 

Iam doubtful about next srason unless Romeo stays.

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5 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

TJD will not be better than Morgan

Franklin will not be better than Romeo.

Jerome and Race will help, and Rob will improve.  I'm skeptical about significant improvement elsewhere.

Agree to disagree! The talent level may not be better, .....but they are most likely very coachable players. These are mostly players that Archie has recruited and has seen something in them that fits into his coaching philosophy.

 

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6 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

TJD will not be better than Morgan

Franklin will not be better than Romeo.

Jerome and Race will help, and Rob will improve.  I'm skeptical about significant improvement elsewhere.

TJD will be a frosh.

Franklin will be a frosh.

Jerome and Race will basically be freshmen.

Rob will be a Soph.

Smith will be a Junior.

And Green will be a Senior.

You left out Clif and Jake.

With that being said are you saying you question Archie's player development skills?

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15 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

TJD will not be better than Morgan

Franklin will not be better than Romeo.

Jerome and Race will help, and Rob will improve.  I'm skeptical about significant improvement elsewhere.

And there will still be a deficit in sufficient outside shooting.  The lack of spacing is killing this team.

Without naming names, if someone moves on, maybe we can find a spot for a juco (or senior transfer) dead eye shooter.

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5 minutes ago, Artesian_86 said:

Agree to disagree! The talent level may not be better, .....but they are most likely very coachable players. These are mostly players that Archie has recruited and has seen something in them that fits into his coaching philosophy.

 

I would assume that Juwan and Romeo are both coachable. Others that are left not so much.

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6 minutes ago, rico said:

TJD will be a frosh.

Franklin will be a frosh.

Jerome and Race will basically be freshmen.

Rob will be a Soph.

Smith will be a Junior.

And Green will be a Senior.

You left out Clif and Jake.

With that being said are you saying you question Archie's player development skills?

More the desire of some of the players to put the work in to develop.

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5 hours ago, 5fouls said:

Other teams do it all the time.  Some of them may end up giving an extra scholly to a walk-on, but that doesn't really count.  Not too many coaches play 11-12 guys like Crean did.  

I don't think anyone is advocating playing 11-12 guys.  I'm just saying that you need the ammunition in case something happens due to injuries or other unknown circumstances.  That 11th or 12guy could end up being your 8th or 9th.  That's what has happened to us this year. 

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6 hours ago, 5fouls said:

You guys will think I'm crazy considering all of the injuries this year.  But, Archie simply is not going to play more than 8-9 guys.  It's part of his philosophy to keep his rotation tight and I don't see any evidence of that changing.  As a result, he needs to cap the number of schollies he hands out at 11.  These kids that never get on the floor have always been the star of their team.  It's a huge adjustment to become an end of the bench guy, and some players simply do not handle it well.  If your coach is only going to play 9, and you have handed out 13 scholarships, that's 4 guys that are, at best, disappointed, but may even be downright unhappy.  Cut that number in half by only giving out 11 scholarships.  Not only does that reduce the amount of cumulative time players are rotting on the bench, but it potentially opens the door to give the remaining two some of the 'extra' minutes that you previously had to spread 4 ways.  

I think you’re crazy for lots of reasons. 😁

no way can you do this, no coach does or would. Just look at the injuries and health issues this year. Consider potential transfer decisions. Consider that going in you just don’t know how guys will develop at the college level, who will really play well with whom, etc.

Then there’s competition for playing time and how that improves players individually and the team. Guys compete for playing time, that’s how it should be. 

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3 hours ago, Billingsley99 said:

In my coaching experience it does make a difference. At a 1A I never had elite players and we developed based on what we had and had some success. At the 4A I had guys on the bench far more talented than what my previous starters had been but so did the competition so I had to make a lot of philosophical changes to be successful

But even at 1A werent you still trying to put your best player in a position to have the most effect on the game?  Im not saying give him/her the ball and tell the other four to get out of the way; but rather, plays that would get them open and give them the best chance to do whatever it is they do best....shoot, drive, kick, post up, etc.  

I would just think a coach would have general thought of what he thinks the best way to win is and for the most part would use the players he has on any given year to mold those thoughts into a team that he thinks can compete.  

I hate the idea of trying to force square pegs into round holes because that's how a coach has always done it.  Not saying a coach should ditch their beliefs, but let players do what they do best, within the concept of the system.  Green is a perfect example of this for me.  He is not, never will be Rob or Lewis or Coverdale; its just not his game.  I think when he tries to make that his game is when he makes the most mistakes.  

This turned into a lot longer rant than i expected...sorry eveyone.

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2 hours ago, rico said:

I care.  And I don't need a NIT lesson.  Point is, you got a new coach.  You are building for the future.  A NIT appearance is a good thing in year #1.

Beilein: Missed the NIT, making no postseason appearance at all (including his first season), 2 out of his first 3 seasons at Michigan, and missed the NIT his first season at West Virginia

Jay Wright: Made the NIT each of his first 3 seasons at Villanova. Took him 4 years to make an NCAA Tournament

Tony Bennett: Missed the NIT, making no postseason appearance, his first TWO seasons at UVA. Made the NCAA his 3rd and then was in NIT his 4th

Izzo: In a seamless, planned transition from lead assistant to head coach, missed the NCAA Tournament (making the NIT) his first two seasons

It takes time and patience to build a program and instill a culture. 

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5 minutes ago, 3Ballin said:

But even at 1A werent you still trying to put your best player in a position to have the most effect on the game?  Im not saying give him/her the ball and tell the other four to get out of the way; but rather, plays that would get them open and give them the best chance to do whatever it is they do best....shoot, drive, kick, post up, etc.  

I would just think a coach would have general thought of what he thinks the best way to win is and for the most part would use the players he has on any given year to mold those thoughts into a team that he thinks can compete.  

I hate the idea of trying to force square pegs into round holes because that's how a coach has always done it.  Not saying a coach should ditch their beliefs, but let players do what they do best, within the concept of the system.  Green is a perfect example of this for me.  He is not, never will be Rob or Lewis or Coverdale; its just not his game.  I think when he tries to make that his game is when he makes the most mistakes.  

This turned into a lot longer rant than i expected...sorry eveyone.

I agree you have to adjust as a coach to the strengths of your team and sometimes that may go against your overall philosophy. Don't abandon but have a lot of bend maybe.

This is just a generalization but sometimes I wonder if the coach is so set on laying the foundation of what they want long term that they dont truly realize what they have at that exact moment. This team can be special I truly believe that. I would hate to sacrifice this team for the teams of the future.

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6 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Beilein: Missed the NIT, making no postseason appearance at all (including his first season), 2 out of his first 3 seasons at Michigan, and missed the NIT his first season at West Virginia

Jay Wright: Made the NIT each of his first 3 seasons at Villanova. Took him 4 years to make an NCAA Tournament

Tony Bennett: Missed the NIT, making no postseason appearance, his first TWO seasons at UVA. Made the NCAA his 3rd and then was in NIT his 4th

Izzo: In a seamless, planned transition from lead assistant to head coach, missed the NCAA Tournament (making the NIT) his first two seasons

It takes time and patience to build a program and instill a culture. 

I also agree with all. I love CAM and i think he is the guy for this program. I know that it takes time to build but in RL and JM we have 2 sports cars there and what I see in our offense resembles more of a tractor pull than of an Indy car race. I just don't want to see their talents wasted because those 2 can carry us to a place we have not been in a long time. 

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5 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Beilein: Missed the NIT, making no postseason appearance at all (including his first season), 2 out of his first 3 seasons at Michigan, and missed the NIT his first season at West Virginia

Jay Wright: Made the NIT each of his first 3 seasons at Villanova. Took him 4 years to make an NCAA Tournament

Tony Bennett: Missed the NIT, making no postseason appearance, his first TWO seasons at UVA. Made the NCAA his 3rd and then was in NIT his 4th

Izzo: In a seamless, planned transition from lead assistant to head coach, missed the NCAA Tournament (making the NIT) his first two seasons

It takes time and patience to build a program and instill a culture. 

Thank you, but I already knew that info.  But somewhere I am confused about the "building a program" thing.  B didn't do it at Michigan.  Izzy didn't do it at MSU.  Wright didn't do it at Nova.  Bennett didn't do it at UVA.

Now if you want to say instill their style then I am cool with that.  

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