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Archie Miller's coaching philosophy...Is this current team smart enough for Archie's standards?


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On 1/15/2019 at 7:57 PM, rico said:

Miller came in with Crean's recruits.  

Are you implying that Crean's recruits were good players? We didn't even make the NIT the year before and we lost our 3 best players to the NBA. I'm all for getting on Archie when it's warranted, but comparing him to Bob Knight in the middle of year 2 doesn't seem logical.

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2 minutes ago, SIHoosier26 said:

Are you implying that Crean's recruits were good players? We didn't even make the NIT the year before and we lost our 3 best players to the NBA. I'm all for getting on Archie when it's warranted, but comparing him to Bob Knight in the middle of year 2 doesn't seem logical.

What I am implying is that Crean had 3 guys in the fold when he got fired.  Archie honored Crean's offers for those players.  And actually had visits with them.

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Just now, rico said:

What I am implying is that Crean had 3 guys in the fold when he got fired.  Archie honored Crean's offers for those players.  And actually had visits with them.

Archie was just trying to fill the roster with options. That's the only logical explanation I can think of because these are clearly guys he wouldn't have recruited otherwise.

This team simply doesn't have a ton of talent, no size, no shooting, and with the injuries no depth. Still they have enough talent to make the tournament, if not it would be a disappointment. It's sure not looking good right now.

I have no idea why we're playing Fitzner soo much, right now Moore is clearly better and I would argue that Anderson is better than Mcroberts as well.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, SIHoosier26 said:

Archie was just trying to fill the roster with options. That's the only logical explanation I can think of because these are clearly guys he wouldn't have recruited otherwise.

This team simply doesn't have a ton of talent, no size, no shooting, and with the injuries no depth. Still they have enough talent to make the tournament, if not it would be a disappointment. It's sure not looking good right now.

I have no idea why we're playing Fitzner soo much, right now Moore is clearly better and I would argue that Anderson is better than Mcroberts as well.

 

 

Well Smith and Durham are starters?

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6 minutes ago, rico said:

Well Smith and Durham are starters?

They're starters on THIS team, that's part of the problem. Neither one starts on a championship level team. Also, with his dad's recent comments, his lack of hustle, and his ineptitude offensively I would argue that Smith wouldn't even play on a championship level team.

That being said, who do suggest Archie starts instead?

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1 minute ago, SIHoosier26 said:

They're starters on THIS team, that's part of the problem. Neither one starts on a championship level team. Also, with his dad's recent comments, his lack of hustle, and his ineptitude offensively I would argue that Smith wouldn't even play on a championship level team.

That being said, who do suggest Archie starts instead?

I am saying that Archie reached out to Smith, Durham, and Moore.  They didn't have to come here after FCTC got fired.  Now picking the starting line-up is squarely on CAM.

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On 1/15/2019 at 8:36 PM, 5fouls said:

Here's a question.  Archie came from Dayton.  He did not have elite talent.  He certainly did not have anything remotely close to a Romeo level talent.  So, I'll ask thins.  Does Archie know how to build and manage a team around an elite player?

Despite what a lot of this board thinks, Romeo and Juwan are simply not the problem. It's the team around them giving them literally no help.

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4 minutes ago, rico said:

I am saying that Archie reached out to Smith, Durham, and Moore.  They didn't have to come here after FCTC got fired.  Now picking the starting line-up is squarely on CAM.

What, and then have 3 less players? How does that help this team? He needed bodies to help the rebuild and with the injuries it's a good thing he did.

If not Mcroberts, Fitzner, and freshman Anderson would have to play much bigger roles. I'm not sure what good that does.

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On 1/16/2019 at 11:17 AM, Billingsley99 said:

This has been going on since RL said he was coming to IU. Some of the guys do not respond well to The "Savior" or second coming . Jealousy has been there and is showing its ugly head more and more each week. It will not be where he is picked in the draft that will make RL go pro it will be this locker room!!!

Well considering they were a .500 team before he came to IU, they need to get the hell over it.

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On 1/16/2019 at 12:48 PM, OGIUAndy said:

I think Archie is the right guy. Nobody said this was going to be easy or immediate. People don't like excuses, but the health of this team has made for some interesting rotations. Fitzner has also been a big letdown. I do think it's time to play Moore, Anderson, and Forrester way more. See what you have. We're not winning the Big Ten etc. this year. Archie has to find some offense besides the big two. I will be more disappointed if they don't compete against PU. 

After the embarrassment on Monday I doubt the film sessions are going to be fun for anyone. If we still don't show any fight against Purdue then it's looking like a lost season. Hate to say it but there seems to be some players on this team that simply don't care about doing what it takes to win.

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On 1/16/2019 at 1:31 PM, 5fouls said:

TJD will not be better than Morgan

Franklin will not be better than Romeo.

Jerome and Race will help, and Rob will improve.  I'm skeptical about significant improvement elsewhere.

You're just looking at losing the top 2 players and not taking anything else into account. Juwan and Romeo might be better individually than anyone on next year's team, that doesn't mean they make a better team. 

This is really a pointless conversation until Keion makes his decision and we figure out about potential transfers in the offseason. Not to mention improvements from guys like Phinisee, while getting Hunter and Thompson back from injury. Also, don't forget about a potentially healthy Deron. Why too many unknown variables to start worrying about next year. Imho

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22 hours ago, 5fouls said:

I'm sorry, but I'm not buying what the story is selling

Morgan is not dead weight

Davis had a catastrophic injury.  Not fair at all to label him dead weight.

If Green (a Crean recruit) is dead weight, then why is he playing 25-30 minutes a game and Anderson (an Archie recruit) is not playing at all?

If Durham (a Crean recruit) is dead weight, then why is he playing 25-30 minutes a game and Anderson (an Archie recruit) is not playing at all?

If Moore (a Crean recruit) is dead weight, then what label do we attach to Fitzner (an Archie recruit)?

If Thompson is dead weight, then what label do we attach to Forrester (an Archie recruit)?

McRoberts is a walk-on, so any expectations that he be a productive rotation player are the fault of the people that expect that, not the fault of Tom Crean.

Jerome Hunter's injury is no one's fault.

I've mentioned everyone Crean left but Smith.  Justin is a decent player.  He may or may not be starter material on a good Big Ten team.  But, if anything, Jerome Hunter's injury has been the main factor in Justin having to play more minutes than he may be ready for.

 

So what'd you expect in year 2? BIG title and final 4? Just trying to get a guage of what your expectations were.

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11 minutes ago, Artesian_86 said:

Because he had no choice....

I still wish someone would explain the math to me in a system that penalizes us for 3 early NBA entrants but allows UK to have a perfect score.  Until someone can do that, I'm going to be skeptical of what was posted about how dire our APR situation was.

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1 minute ago, SIHoosier26 said:

So what'd you expect in year 2? BIG title and final 4? Just trying to get a guage of what your expectations were.

My post was not about expectations for us as a team, it was in response to someone implying that Archie was stuck with dead weight when he took over from Crean.  I was simply pointing out that the players that were called out for being dead weight were playing ahead of people Archie recruited.  That fact either disproves the label assigned to the inherited players, or is an indictment of some of Archie's own recruits.  

As far as my expectations, I am extremely disappointed in the last 60 minutes of basketball.  Before that, I had no complaints.

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26 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

My post was not about expectations for us as a team, it was in response to someone implying that Archie was stuck with dead weight when he took over from Crean.  I was simply pointing out that the players that were called out for being dead weight were playing ahead of people Archie recruited.  That fact either disproves the label assigned to the inherited players, or is an indictment of some of Archie's own recruits.  

As far as my expectations, I am extremely disappointed in the last 60 minutes of basketball.  Before that, I had no complaints.

I don't consider the 3 guys inherited from Crean to be Archie's recruits, that's probably where we differ. Archie kept them because he didn't want his roster to fall behind and he needed bodies to help with the transition/rebuild. I don't think he would have recruited them otherwise especially based on last year's recruiting class. Some have said that the APR situation has held him back a bit as well but I don't feel like reading all that right now.

On the overall situation I'm kind of in the fence.  My predictions for this team weren't as high as some others, I thought this would be a top 25ish tournament team that with the right matchup could win a game or 2 in the tourney. The injuries certainly haven't helped, and that needs to be taken into account regarding depth. That being said, this team has shown no heart, pride or mental toughness at certain times this year and that's definitely cause for concern going forward. There is no reason for a team to go through stretches without playing hard, and any player that isn't bringing it needs to sit on the bench. If he or his dad isn't happy about it, then they can both go kick sand as far as I'm concerned.

I think there's a definite chemistry problem that is obviously affecting certain players on this team and that's on coach to address before things get out of hand. Based on what we've seen the last few games, things aren't looking good. Regardless it's been proven time and time again it takes even the best coaches at least 2 or 3 recruiting classes to get their programs to where we want to be. It's far too early to start deciding whether or not Archie is the coach that's going to get us there. I know it's hard, but people have GOT to be more patient.

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Just now, SIHoosier26 said:

I don't consider the 3 guys inherited from Crean to be Archie's recruits, that's probably where we differ. Archie kept them because he didn't want his roster to fall behind and he needed bodies to help with the transition/rebuild. I seriously doubt he would have recruited them otherwise. Some have said that the APR situation has held him back a bit as well but I don't feel like reading all that right now.

On the overall situation I'm kind of in the fence.  My predictions for this team weren't as high as some others, I thought this would be a top 25ish tournament team that with the right matchup could win a game or 2 in the tourney. The injuries certainly haven't helped, and that needs to be taken into account regarding depth. That being said, this team has shown no heart, pride or mental toughness at certain times this year and that's definitely cause for concern going forward. There is no reason for a team to go through stretches without playing hard, and any player that isn't bringing it needs to sit on the bench. If he or his dad isn't happy about it they can both go kick sand as far as I'm concerned.

I think there's a definite chemistry problem that is obvious affecting certain players on this team and that's on coach to address before things get out of hand. Based on what we've seen the last few games, things aren't looking good. Regardless it's been proven time and time again it takes even the best coaches at least 2 or 3 recruiting classes to get there programs to where we want to be. It's far too early to start deciding whether or not Archie is the coach that's going to get us there. I know it's hard but people have GOT to be more patient.

I'm not calling Moore, Durham, and Smith Archie's recruits either.  Quite the opposite.  My point is if Durham, as a Crean guy,  is 'dead weight', then why does he play starter minutes when Anderson, an Archie guy does not.  Do similar comparisons with Smith (against Fitzner or Forrester) and Moore.  

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Just now, 5fouls said:

I'm not calling Moore, Durham, and Smith Archie's recruits either.  Quite the opposite.  My point is if Durham, as a Crean guy,  is 'dead weight', then why does he play starter minutes when Anderson, an Archie guy does not.  Do similar comparisons with Smith (against Fitzner or Forrester) and Moore.  

Oh, so your opinion wasn't based on expectations?

I agree then, there is no reason Mcroberts/Fitzner should be playing near as much as they are. That being said, I never expected Forrester or Damezi to make any impact as freshman. Honestly,  I expected them to redshirt. These injuries have really reduced Archie's options though, you have to admit that. 

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On 1/16/2019 at 12:04 AM, mrflynn03 said:

Crean definitely has/had an eye for talent.  Maybe more luck than skill?  I don't know, but Juwan is a diamond in the rough type player. Did he develope on his own? Would Crean get the same results? Or has he blossomed with archie?  Just asking for your thoughts because I don't think CTC would have the JM we have now. 

Archie has helped I’m sure but Juwan had it from the beginning just like Oladipo and OG. Crean recruited them and I give him credit.  My problem with Crean’s recruiting was for every diamond he found there was an unathletic   foreign  or Priller Trime bench warmer who left us thin on the bench.  He also was he had no clue how to coach big men or even get them the ball.   I am not against Archie, I’m just a little more skeptical than some. I need to see more!

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5 hours ago, 5fouls said:

I will ask the APR experts again.  How can 3 early NBA entrants, presumably in good academic standing, destroy IU's APR when UK has received a perfect score for 3 straight years?

 

5 hours ago, 5fouls said:

The whole premise of the article was that losing OG, Bryant, and JBJ early helped push us to the brink, yet UK lost Fox, Adabayo, and Monk the exact same year and received a perfect score.  The facts do not support the narrative.

 

5 hours ago, 5fouls said:

From what I see, GPA does not matter.  It is solely based on Academic standing (eligible or not) at the end of the term.  And you get partial credit for players that leave but are still good academically.  

1) I don’t think NBA entrants affect the APR.  I think that it only affects it when they transfer to another school, and not when they leave for a “job”.

2) No where in the article did it mention or reference those three leaving pushing us to the brink.  It did mention that an NIT team coming back lost all three of their “star” players and only returned Juwan as a contributor.

3) GPA does play a role, but I’m not exactly sure how.  The article explicitly states that we were, “...a transfer with a 2.6 GPA or below” away from being under the APR threshold.

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