Northwestern Postgame Thread

[BGleas]

57 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

It seems some people are saying Romeo is not ready for the NBA or projecting hope that he’ll stay for another year - please - for your own sanity - just stop before you rile yourself up and get disappointed this spring when you find out he’s not coming back. 

I understand he’s not shooting the 3 at a high clip, but what we as fans seem to overlook every time we we have an NBA caliber player with a flaw or 2 in his game, is that these guy can develop in the NBA! It’s not like their development stops when they leave college. And Archie sure has not shown he can develop shooters  

Romeo already has all the skills NBA teams want. He’s strong, athletic, can get his own shot, can get to the rim, has an amazing touch around the rim and has a high b-ball IQ. Yes, his 3 needs some work but he has good shooting form - it will fall  

Im more concerned our offense and lack of shooting is disguising how great he can be. Heck, give us ONE legit shooter to spread out the floor and he is that much better. I’m concerned about other high level prospects looking at our offense, lack of spacing, lack of flow and Archie’s inability (so far) to develop shooters and second guessing their interest in our program. Im still pro Archie but it seems like he’s unintentionally cursing shooters’ confidence. Fitzner now. RoJo last year. Free throws in general.  Something is not right and I hope he has a plan to fix it. 

That is not what I'm saying whatsoever, nor even alluded to at all. He's going to be a lottery pick and he'll most likely be gone after the season. 

All I've said is that he is not as impactful in terms of winning games as most had anticipated. He's a scoring two-guard that really struggles to shoot from 3. He's not the type of 5*/top 10 player that adds 10 wins just by being there. Some of that has to do with the pieces around him, but some is the type of player he is. Again just to be clear, I love him, he's a fantastic kid, player and person. I'd want him on my team 100 times out of 100, but he's not a guy that necessarily lifts the team up by his mere presence, like a player like Zeller did.

Again, he's a phenomenal ambassador for IU, will be one of the best IU players in the NBA ever. 

[BGleas]

3 minutes ago, 5 championships said:

Rob Phinisee going down stalled improvement right before our hardest stretch of the season 

This hasn't been highlighted enough. The Phinisee injury was a killer. He was playing so well, confidence was building, etc. You saw last night in stretches how much better the team looked when Phinisee was attacking and being aggressive. He's our only other reliable playmaker outside of Morgan and Langford. 

[IowaHoosierFan]

Here is what i think our issues are

1. Slow starts, both halves (we do occasionally start better)

2. Poor Shooting

3. Long stretches of no scoring

4. Waiting until the last 5 minutes to "TURN IT ON" and try and make a run

5. injuries

6. Lack of talent and experience

7. Easy to game plan against

Now we have good points too

1. Morgan and Langford are exceptional players

2. Smith has great potential, if only he had softer hands

3. We play a pretty good defense

4. We have good looking uniforms

This season is a train wreck,  And it started off with so much promise.

[FW_Hoosier]

8 minutes ago, BGleas said:

That is not what I'm saying whatsoever, nor even alluded to at all. He's going to be a lottery pick and he'll most likely be gone after the season. 

All I've said is that he is not as impactful in terms of winning games as most had anticipated. He's a scoring two-guard that really struggles to shoot from 3. He's not the type of 5*/top 10 player that adds 10 wins just by being there. Some of that has to do with the pieces around him, but some is the type of player he is. Again just to be clear, I love him, he's a fantastic kid, player and person. I'd want him on my team 100 times out of 100, but he's not a guy that necessarily lifts the team up by his mere presence, like a player like Zeller did.

Again, he's a phenomenal ambassador for IU, will be one of the best IU players in the NBA ever. 

I see what you’re saying, but this team would still be trash if you replaced Romeo with a freshman Zeller.

[Rev_AK]

7 hours ago, BGleas said:

Langford is a fantastic player, he’s pretty unselfish, plays really solid D, and is a good teammate, what is really holding him back is his inability to hit the 3-pt shot. It’s really holding his potential impact back. I knew he wasn’t going to be a lights, 40%+ 3-pt shooter, but I thought maybe he could be around 35-37%. If he was in that range, it would open so much up for other guys. 

Not disagreeing, Romeo is not shooting well from outside- an understatement. What’s baffling is, I watched every game for the last 3 seasons, ( had to buy season tix to watch him play) He CAN shoot the 3. If anyone doubts that, watch the Southport game on YouTube. I watched in warm up game after game. Nothing but net. There was a change last year after the game against the Ohio team that featured Michael Bazely, where Romeo was roughed up quite a bit, he began to favor his wrist/ thumb, which has been getting taped a lot ever since. Don’t know if it’s that, the weights/ strength training, or what, but I watched him as one of the purest shooters I have ever seen, and I saw Pat Graham and Damon Bailey ( both of whom lost at the Doghouse, by the way)  play, and don’t know what happened to his shot, but I assure the readers that he didn’t score 3002 points by driving to the rim exclusively against 1 A team’s.. Meanwhile, Sean East did nothing but shoot 3’s well, and didn’t get a whiff from D1 teams....

[Seeking6]

9 minutes ago, 5 championships said:

Rob Phinisee going down stalled improvement right before our hardest stretch of the season 

All day long which is why we made such a big deal out of the injury protocol when it happened. Coming off of a huge games his confidence growing and boom.....30 days later back to square one. Starting to see signs of him coming out of it. Can't say it any more clearer. Michigan for our resume is a must win. Just have to figure out a way to win Friday. 

[Artesian_86]

23 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

I like the four game rule idea but it should be more than four games.  You could base it on the percentage of regular season games. 4 games in football is like 1/3 their season.  Translating it to basketball would be more like ten games.  

good point!

[5 championships]

24 minutes ago, BGleas said:

This hasn't been highlighted enough. The Phinisee injury was a killer. He was playing so well, confidence was building, etc. You saw last night in stretches how much better the team looked when Phinisee was attacking and being aggressive. He's our only other reliable playmaker outside of Morgan and Langford. 

Correct. He was really becoming our 3rd scorer. Its pushed us back about a month but he is finally starting to play like he was. 

I know losing 5 games in a row is tough on everybody coaches, players, fans etc..after 20 years of mediocrity everyone is about to lose their minds. But let’s not shoot something down before it ever gets the chance to take off. Archie might not be perfect but I believe he is very capable of getting this program where we want it. Just takes some patience. The way he is recruiting the state. Mixing in 4 year guys with 5 stars is awesome. We all talked for YEARS how we wanted to lock down the state again. Now we are doing that and everybody just takes it for granted?? Hoosier nation do yourself a favor and look at the big picture here. This team was doomed from the start with all the injury’s and lack of practice time.

Do people think all the moaning and crying is going to help anything? Look at Ohio State!! They are losing to. The BIG is tough and we havnt played anybody yet whose coach is in his second year with the program. These coaches have systems and players established in it. We are not going to run over them just cuz we are “Indiana”. Stay on board let’s not lose our minds. Don’t kill the one really good thing we have going “recruiting” with all the negativity. If it’s year 4 and this is happening by all means let’s be upset. But as of right now this coach has my full support and I’m behind the team 100 percent. Let’s find away to win a few ball games and get into the dance in Archie 2nd year I consider that a success! What more does everyone want? Final four in year 2?  We can’t even get enough guys to practice.

Don’t shoot down the plane before we see where it’s going to take us! All the negativity is killing me and this program! R-E-L-A-X Hoosier nation. 

[IowaHoosierFan]

3 minutes ago, 5 championships said:

Correct. He was really becoming our 3rd scorer. Its pushed us back about a month but he is finally starting to play like he was. 

I know losing 5 games in a row is tough on everybody coaches, players, fans etc..after 20 years of mediocrity everyone is about to lose their minds. But let’s not shoot something down before it ever gets the chance to take off. Archie might not be perfect but I believe he is very capable of getting this program where we want it. Just takes some patience. The way he is recruiting the state. Mixing in 4 year guys with 5 stars is awesome. We all talked for YEARS how we wanted to lock down the state again. Now we are doing that and everybody just takes it for granted?? Hoosier nation do yourself a favor and look at the big picture here. This team was doomed from the start with all the injury’s and lack of practice time.

Do people think all the moaning and crying is going to help anything? Look at Ohio State!! They are losing to. The BIG is tough and we havnt played anybody yet whose coach is in his second year with the program. These coaches have systems and players established in it. We are not going to run over them just cuz we are “Indiana”. Stay on board let’s not lose our minds. Don’t kill the one really good thing we have going “recruiting” with all the negativity. If it’s year 4 and this is happening by all means let’s be upset. But as of right now this coach has my full support and I’m behind the team 100 percent. Let’s find away to win a few ball games and get into the dance in Archie 2nd year I consider that a success! What more does everyone want? Final four in year 2?  We can’t even get enough guys to practice.

Don’t shoot down the plane before we see where it’s going to take us! All the negativity is killing me and this program! R-E-L-A-X Hoosier nation. 

If losing 5 in a row (most likley 6 with Mich coming) is still ok, at what point is it ok to be somewhat negative?

[tdhoosier]

35 minutes ago, BGleas said:

That is not what I'm saying whatsoever, nor even alluded to at all. He's going to be a lottery pick and he'll most likely be gone after the season. 

All I've said is that he is not as impactful in terms of winning games as most had anticipated. He's a scoring two-guard that really struggles to shoot from 3. He's not the type of 5*/top 10 player that adds 10 wins just by being there. Some of that has to do with the pieces around him, but some is the type of player he is. Again just to be clear, I love him, he's a fantastic kid, player and person. I'd want him on my team 100 times out of 100, but he's not a guy that necessarily lifts the team up by his mere presence, like a player like Zeller did.

Again, he's a phenomenal ambassador for IU, will be one of the best IU players in the NBA ever. 

The post wasn’t directed at you - just posts I’ve been seeing in game threads/chats. That said, I do think we’d have 3-4 more losses without him.

It was more towards the general attitude of: “Romeo can’t shoot the 3 so he’s not ready for the NBA”. 

Ill just say, if I’m Romeo and need to work on my 3 point shot; I’m going to work on it in the NBA because the current IU staff has not shown that they can improve shooting. Not saying Archie can’t develop shooters in the future, but he hasn’t proven it yet. With his career on the line, IMO, I’d make a decision based on the evidence that is currently on the table and run to the NBA  

Being that this is the most glaring weakness in Romeos game, even if he falls out of the lottery, I still think he’s going pro. 

[Billingsley99]

1 hour ago, cohete15 said:

The team has not checked out. We had a lot of fight last night. We just simply can't put a full 40 minutes together, and we're no where near good enough to not bring it for 40.

With all due respect it should not take a lot of fight to go into NW when you are Indiana and get a W. Top 2 players on the court play for us. Zero excuses IMO

[rico]

3 hours ago, 5fouls said:

Who is your 5th starter?

I didn't say I would start them all...but they need to be on the floor over McRoberts and Fitzner.

[BobSaccamanno]

35 minutes ago, BGleas said:

This hasn't been highlighted enough. The Phinisee injury was a killer. He was playing so well, confidence was building, etc. You saw last night in stretches how much better the team looked when Phinisee was attacking and being aggressive. He's our only other reliable playmaker outside of Morgan and Langford. 

Completely.

Phinisee is probably my favorite player.  I just love his game.   I’m not saying he’s the best player (got to love Morgan), but he’s really compelling to me.  That slam late was unreal.  I think anyone watching had to laugh and think “where did that come from?”  This guy is a complete player and I’m excited to see what he becomes.  Who knows, maybe he turns into a Mike Conley type.  

He can be in the Tom Coverdale category for me.  I just loved Covey’s game. Phinisee evokes that same feeling for me. 

[Artesian_86]

1 hour ago, Billingsley99 said:

With all due respect it should not take a lot of fight to go into NW when you are Indiana and get a W. Top 2 players on the court play for us. Zero excuses IMO

Will all due respect Billingsley, agree to disagree .....We have no identity or have lost some of it with our defensive decline. This entire season up to this point,......whatever combination is on the floor, only two players (most of the time shoot the ball and are willing to shoot). Juwan and Romeo have the green light all day, but everyone else is scared to shoot or do not want to. That has taken its toll. Granted, Justin does shoot and score, but he rarely looks comfortable except during a dunk....You may be right, but that is how I see it.

[5 championships]

25 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

If losing 5 in a row (most likley 6 with Mich coming) is still ok, at what point is it ok to be somewhat negative?

I’m not saying you can’t auestion some things. Absolutely go ahead. I have felt like the negativity has gone a little to far tho. Don’t lose sight of the big picture. 

[5 championships]

[IUCrazy2]

5 minutes ago, 5 championships said:

Fair point.  What did each do in year 3? 

[Billingsley99]

27 minutes ago, Artesian_86 said:

Will all due respect Billingsley, agree to disagree .....We have no identity or have lost some of it with our defensive decline. This entire season up to this point,......whatever combination is on the floor, only two players (most of the time shoot the ball and are willing to shoot). Juwan and Romeo have the green light all day, but everyone else is scared to shoot or do not want to. That has taken its toll. Granted, Justin does shoot and score, but he rarely look comfortable except during a dunk....You may be right, but that is how I see it.

I can't disagree with that but when you have more talent and you play hard good things happen. I do not feel that this team plays very hard, there is no extra effort. Body language speaks volumes. If this was my high school team they would run until they quit completely or got so pissed off that they did something about it. 

My father in law hates IU with a passion loves UL. He has watched everyone of our games and he keeps saying that in his opinion our guys look like that hate being out there. I know that its not all about having fun and I myself have said and my wife reminds me of it that winning is what makes you happy and cures a lot of things but our guys look down right miserable. Either our players don't have what it takes or the coaches cant get it out of them. Either way there is too much talent to go to NW and us as fans expecting a loss.  We are getting out hustled out worked and out coached its not a good combo

[iuthruandthru]

13 minutes ago, 5 championships said:

None of these coaches were coaching elite programs at the time of the start.  That could be made a point but duke wasn’t duke and Syracuse was not Syracuse at those times.  All the other progrms were not considered elite.  Let’s see the first 2 years of the likes of Roy at UNC, Self at Kansas, Cal at Kentucky, and others like that and then I think your comparison is reasonable.  Your comparison works for McKracken when IU did not have 5 championships as most of the ones you listed had no history either.  Current high level programs don’t need to wait 5 years to be better. 

[Billingsley99]

18 minutes ago, 5 championships said:

These numbers are all fine and dandy but did those teams have a Romeo and a Juwan. We have the talent to have a much better record.  Iam not saying the sky is falling etc.. Get rid of CAM or anything like that but we are so under performing that I can't buy the build the program argument. I have made so many excuses to friends and family about this team, and I have come to the conclusion it should be good but it just is not a good team.

[5fouls]

is Jim Beilein the half-brother of John Boeheim?

[Billingsley99]

Just now, 5fouls said:

is Jim Beilein the brother of John Boeheim?

Nice Catch

[HoosierJax]

24 minutes ago, 5 championships said:

If i remember correctly Duke wanted to fire coach k after year 2,but RMK made a phone call and talk them into giving him more time

[Billingsley99]

1 minute ago, HoosierJax said:

If i remember correctly Duke wanted to fire coach k after year 2,but RMK made a phone call and talk them into giving him more time

Duke had previous success but Coach K was really young CBK saw something special in him and needed more time. CTC inherited a complete bare cupboard. CAM did not have the greatest of teams set for him but he had 6 years experience and a top 5 recruit in RL and a top 25 player in JM. Right now we are not competing. Thats all I ask.  CTC's 1st team stunk to high heaven and we knew it but they tried and played hard we had no expectations and we started turning the corner toward success.  This son of a gun right now is in REVERSE going full speed behind.

[Parakeet Jones]

27 minutes ago, 5 championships said:

Every time I see these types of posts I can't help but wonder, how many coaches started with similar numbers and are forgotten on the ash heap of history because they never improved.  I get the point, and I agree we have to be patient, but these numbers have no relation to Archie.