Billingsley99 Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 12 minutes ago, Artesian_86 said: Well put, however, I just can not find myself to put blame on the coaching staff just yet. With several pending circumstances, this team is shy of a season ending disaster. I say that because it has to start with a much needed win and then coaches and players can start to feel a sense of worth and pride. I am not saying that the coaching staff is exempt from issues this team is currently having. The players have to put in the work, perform under pressure, understand the directives and execute their assignments better than the other team. During Archie's press conference last night, two reports asked him two different questions and his responses really caught my attention. Click on the link below and then start watching at the 3:50 mark and stop at 4:43. See what you think.... https://indiana.rivals.com/news/from-the-locker-room-northwestern-indiana Archie is visibly frustrated and disappointed, but Archie is very driven, driven by success and results.... all done HIS way. At Dayton, Archie got the best out of the players he recruited. Some coaches buckle or sway from their objectives. He obviously plans to ride six or seven player all year long until someone on that bench steps up. He obviously has a plan and objectives, but they are not up to his standards. In the last part of the press conference, a reporter asked about Devonte and his situation. Archie became ICE COLD and visibly frustrated. He would not even extend any credit or information. It was almost as if "that ship has sailed!" I dont want to blame the staff but if a nobody like me can see this offense sucks and does not fit our personnel and yet we continue I dont know where to put the blame. I agree with every point your make. We are just too good to be this bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 1 minute ago, iuthruandthru said: Money and a willingness to actually hire an elite coach. My point is IU never tried to make that hire in any real meaningful way. How do you know who IU did or did not look at when making the search for a coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artesian_86 Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 Just now, Billingsley99 said: I dont want to blame the staff but if a nobody like me can see this offense sucks and does not fit our personnel and yet we continue I dont know where to put the blame. I agree with every point your make. We are just too good to be this bad Absolutely!!!! Chemistry and possibly jealousy are defeating this team. I love that Archie is sticking to his guns and not emptying his bench. Maybe this is his way of letting certain players know that they just do not fit into his system and......dare I say it,....transfer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 Nobody has specifically called for Archie to be fired, but there are numerous posts with things to the effect of 'we botched another hire', 'looks like we got the wrong guy again', or 'school X gets their hire right, how many years until we start again?' It's not specifically calling for Archie to be fired, but it's certainly in the neighborhood. I'm just going to keep repeating it. This is going to take patience, I know it stinks and we're all tired of waiting for IU basketball should be, but we have a bright, young coach and we have to resist the urge to make him pay for the mistakes of the previous coaches/administrations. It's not Archie's fault that the fan base is frustrated because of 20 years, it doesn't mean he can instill a program/culture faster. I'm as disappointed by this season as all of you. I had fooled myself into thinking the Langford signing would fast track what Archie is doing, but unfortunately the injuries have really set things back, and if we're being honest we all probably overrated the teams talent a bit, and of course Archie isn't infallible either. He's made mistakes or not made some adjustments over this losing streak as well. I have no idea if Archie will become 'the guy', but I do know that he's extremely well thought of, he's extremely knowledgeable about the game, relates well to recruits, players, coaches and parents, and that in most cases it takes a coach somewhere around 2-4 years to really build a program and instill a culture. I mentioned this last week, but I saw a postgame interview with Beilein recently and he was talking about how he built Michigan and how the hardest thing was how long it took to instill and build the winning culture. It took him years. It stinks, but it's going to take time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 10 minutes ago, IU Scott said: How do you know who IU did or did not look at when making the search for a coach. I know we looked at Pitino after Sampson was hired, And, we felt he was too pricey. He was elite. Oh, what could have been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTrojan88 Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 The problem with the last two coaches at IU is that they dont know how to build a team. You can have more talent than every team on your schedule but that doesn’t equate to wins. That talent has to have heart, a passion to win, intelligence and it has to be complimentary to every other part of the team. Knowing ones role and executing it night in and night out is a talent that no one on this team displays. Justin Smith can jump out of the gym but I don’t think he knows where to best use that talent....shooting is certainly a talent that is sorely lacking on this team and others before it. I think This team has a ton of talent on paper but none of it complements each other and Archie has done a very poor job of taking the talent at his disposal and putting it in places to get the best results. I do think, at this point in time, he is in WAY over his head. I also think his asst coaches are recruiters only and add little to no value to the coaching aspect of the job.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billingsley99 Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 Had Knight to go to New Mexico Coach K would have been at Indiana. Even with all his success at Duke if Coack Knight had left at any time on his own terms Coach K would have been at IU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 6 minutes ago, BGleas said: Nobody has specifically called for Archie to be fired, but there are numerous posts with things to the effect of 'we botched another hire', 'looks like we got the wrong guy again', or 'school X gets their hire right, how many years until we start again?' It's not specifically calling for Archie to be fired, but it's certainly in the neighborhood. I'm just going to keep repeating it. This is going to take patience, I know it stinks and we're all tired of waiting for IU basketball should be, but we have a bright, young coach and we have to resist the urge to make him pay for the mistakes of the previous coaches/administrations. It's not Archie's fault that the fan base is frustrated because of 20 years, it doesn't mean he can instill a program/culture faster. I'm as disappointed by this season as all of you. I had fooled myself into thinking the Langford signing would fast track what Archie is doing, but unfortunately the injuries have really set things back, and if we're being honest we all probably overrated the teams talent a bit, and of course Archie isn't infallible either. He's made mistakes or not made some adjustments over this losing streak as well. I have no idea if Archie will become 'the guy', but I do know that he's extremely well thought of, he's extremely knowledgeable about the game, relates well to recruits, players, coaches and parents, and that in most cases it takes a coach somewhere around 2-4 years to really build a program and instill a culture. I mentioned this last week, but I saw a postgame interview with Beilein recently and he was talking about how he built Michigan and how the hardest thing was how long it took to instill and build the winning culture. It took him years. It stinks, but it's going to take time. Living where I do, one can't help to compare Louisville's first season under Mack to Archie's second season at IU. Yes, IU beat UL, but the two teams are on decidedly different trajectories right now. My point is not that it should be expected. The stats for Coach K, Izzo, Beilein, etc prove that it sometimes takes time. But, at least in Year 1, Mack is making something happen at Louisville. He's been able to get buy-in from the holdover players, and he was able to find missing pieces he could work with where there were gaps in the roster. Maybe it's a fluke and Louisville will turn mediocre next season. But, what has happened so far is impressive. And, yes, the social media down here is reminding Romeo daily that he should have chose UL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 1 minute ago, 5fouls said: Living where I do, one can't help to compare Louisville's first season under Mack to Archie's second season at IU. Yes, IU beat UL, but the two teams are on decidedly different trajectories right now. My point is not that it should be expected. The stats for Coach K, Izzo, Beilein, etc prove that it sometimes takes time. But, at least in Year 1, Mack is making something happen at Louisville. He's been able to get buy-in from the holdover players, and he was able to find missing pieces he could work with where there were gaps in the roster. Maybe it's a fluke and Louisville will turn mediocre next season. But, what has happened so far is impressive. And, yes, the social media down here is reminding Romeo daily that he should have chose UL. I was wondering how long it would take before Mack's name came up. He is doing a fantastic job in year #1, and at a program that had a dark cloud hanging over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUwins0708 Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 Archie is in over his head I’m afraid. Sickening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FW_Hoosier Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 10 minutes ago, BGleas said: Nobody has specifically called for Archie to be fired, but there are numerous posts with things to the effect of 'we botched another hire', 'looks like we got the wrong guy again', or 'school X gets their hire right, how many years until we start again?' It's not specifically calling for Archie to be fired, but it's certainly in the neighborhood. I'm just going to keep repeating it. This is going to take patience, I know it stinks and we're all tired of waiting for IU basketball should be, but we have a bright, young coach and we have to resist the urge to make him pay for the mistakes of the previous coaches/administrations. It's not Archie's fault that the fan base is frustrated because of 20 years, it doesn't mean he can instill a program/culture faster. I'm as disappointed by this season as all of you. I had fooled myself into thinking the Langford signing would fast track what Archie is doing, but unfortunately the injuries have really set things back, and if we're being honest we all probably overrated the teams talent a bit, and of course Archie isn't infallible either. He's made mistakes or not made some adjustments over this losing streak as well. I have no idea if Archie will become 'the guy', but I do know that he's extremely well thought of, he's extremely knowledgeable about the game, relates well to recruits, players, coaches and parents, and that in most cases it takes a coach somewhere around 2-4 years to really build a program and instill a culture. I mentioned this last week, but I saw a postgame interview with Beilein recently and he was talking about how he built Michigan and how the hardest thing was how long it took to instill and build the winning culture. It took him years. It stinks, but it's going to take time. My question is, what evidence is there to this point that Archie is an elite Xs and Os coach? I’m still hopeful that he can build a successful program when he eventually gets his guys in, but at this point it seems clear that he doesn’t bring much of an edge in adapting to his roster or making adjustments in-game. Doesn’t mean he can never be successful at IU, as there are plenty of examples of coaches that can win if they have the right pieces, but dampens my enthusiasm for the future quite a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbmhoosier Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 I'm not hitting the panic button yet but if the recruiting starts to drop off even an inch it will be time to jump ship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUwins0708 Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 There’s nothing that says next year will be better. In fact it says next year could be worse. Lose best post player, lose Romeo(not as big of a deal as I thought), And there aren’t any shooters coming in. Yes everyone has the chance to get better but we’ve seen how that goes. My expectations are at an all time low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsidehoosier Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 7 minutes ago, IUwins0708 said: Archie is in over his head I’m afraid. Sickening. Can you elaborate more, please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUwins0708 Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 Just now, southsidehoosier said: Can you elaborate more, please? See my last comment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 Here's the thing. Every IU fan had better hope Archie works out. It's been 25 years since we've been elite. If the job chews up and spits out another coach, then no one is going to want it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTrojan88 Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, IUwins0708 said: There’s nothing that says next year will be better. In fact it says next year could be worse. Lose best post player, lose Romeo(not as big of a deal as I thought), And there aren’t any shooters coming in. Yes everyone has the chance to get better but we’ve seen how that goes. My expectations are at an all time low. How can you be located right in the middle of basketball heaven and not have 2-3 lethal shooters at all times? To me, it all goes back to a coaches ability to construct a team. Stop looking at the number of stars next to a guy’s name and go get what you need....mesh role players and highly ranked guys and see what you have...taking guys just because they are highly rated, if they don’t fit a need, has been this teams downfall the last 8-10 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 5 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said: My question is, what evidence is there to this point that Archie is an elite Xs and Os coach? I’m still hopeful that he can build a successful program when he eventually gets his guys in, but at this point it seems clear that he doesn’t bring much of an edge in adapting to his roster or making adjustments in-game. Doesn’t mean he can never be successful at IU, as there are plenty of examples of coaches that can win if they have the right pieces, but dampens my enthusiasm for the future quite a bit. Ah yes, the token 'in-game adjustments' anytime a team loses. I would guess a guy that speaks highly intelligently about the game, has grown up around the game, has played the game, has coached the game successfully, etc., etc. knows the X's and O's and how to make adjustments. IU has had several times where they came back from double-digit deficits to win games. IU has won several close games decided by 3 pts or less, and in those games scored on well-designed plays out of timeouts. All signs of a guy that can coach the game. IU ran several successful in-bounds plays for easy baskets last night when the offense was struggling. IU made defensive adjusts in terms of personnel (defensive assignments) that helped us get back in the game. This is about instilling a culture and a program and it takes time. This is about injuries significantly impacting a team. This is about a coach with 5 active players that he even remotely trusts. I'm not guaranteeing Archie turns into Tony Bennett or John Beilein, I'm saying those guys, and the others frequently mentioned all went through this same period as they attempted to instill a new culture and build a program. I guess then it's up to each of us to determine if we thing Archie can do it too. I think he can based on how he knows the game, speaks the game, his experience over time, and what he's done recruiting to this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbmhoosier Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 Just now, 5fouls said: Here's the thing. Every IU fan had better hope Archie works out. It's been 25 years since we've been elite. If the job chews up and spits out another coach, then no one is going to want it. That's why I wanted the safe hire...Gregg Marshall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 Just now, CTrojan88 said: How can you be located right in the middle of basketball heaven and not have 2-3 lethal shooters at all times? To me, it all goes back to a coaches ability to construct a team. Stop looking at the number of stars next to a guy’s name and go get what you need....mesh role players and highly ranked guys and see what you have...taking guys just because they are highly rated, if they don’t fit a need, has been this teams downfall the last 8-10 years Which is partly why IU is struggling right now. This roster is made up on one year of Archie's recruits, which was a pretty balanced class, and three years of the previous coaches recruits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 Don't forget. Archie did get the Bob Knight seal of approval when he was hired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTrojan88 Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 3 minutes ago, BGleas said: Which is partly why IU is struggling right now. This roster is made up on one year of Archie's recruits, which was a pretty balanced class, and three years of the previous coaches recruits. I am not sure any of the incoming recruits would be considered great shooters. He needs to go out and get a guy who’s specialty is shooting at a high level. Not having one has ruined at least 3 seasons in recent memory, this one included Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artesian_86 Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 18 minutes ago, IUwins0708 said: Archie is in over his head I’m afraid. Sickening. IU basketball is taking on water right now......Sickening,.....yes. Right now, until the end of the season, will be define IF, CAN or WILL Archie "pull his team" above water. I have faith in him. I am sure that he has not been in this situation before nor does he want to stay in this position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierJax Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 29 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said: Had Knight to go to New Mexico Coach K would have been at Indiana. Even with all his success at Duke if Coack Knight had left at any time on his own terms Coach K would have been at IU You really think that,man i dont know...when all that was going on there was some fuss about his comments that lead to that and i dont think Knight would have wanted a former player/assistant coming in behind him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steubenhoosier Posted January 23, 2019 Report Share Posted January 23, 2019 13 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said: That's why I wanted the safe hire...Gregg Marshall. Whose offense just put up a whopping 41 last night against that basketball powerhouse S. Florida. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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