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Good Read // Column: Stop Calling for Archie's Job


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Frustration is understandable. That's what fans do. They get overjoyed when their teams are winning, and they get miserable when they're losing.

But people talking about firing the second year coach are ludicrous. It's even embarrassing to see some people are talking about it and some beat writers had to write about it. 

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2 hours ago, FW_Hoosier said:

Glad that the author of this post gives us permission to finally judge Archie’s performance next year.  Although for some reason I expect that that won’t be “allowed” next season either.

Exactly. There will be more excuses and more putting the blame back on the fans as usual. Indiana University puts forth a s***ty product in the two major sports and its customers (us fans) are blamed for not wanting to buy it. It is ludicrous. 

I hope Archie figures it out but so far it is off to a horrendous start. No way to sugarcoat it.

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1 minute ago, NotIThatLives said:

Does this not sound familiar? 

"runs a system that requires versatility and length. He runs a system that is focused on defensive output and without the athletes need to run that system, struggles are inevitable."  

I thought that's what we said about CTC. 

Right on the money. We shouldn't need "athletes" to win basketball games. We need basketball players who happen to be athletes; and a coach who doesn't look like a deer in headlights. Wisconsin will beat our brains in here in a few weeks with smart, fundamental basketball all the while we will lament the lack of "athletes" we have. So sick of this "brand" of basketball at IU.

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Using the word 'horrendous' is an overreaction.  Archie may or may not be the right guy.  I have some doubts.  But, as has been shared in multiple places on the board, there are numerous Hall of Fame level coaches that took some time to get it rolling.

What would be worse than giving Archie 3-4 years?  Giving him only 2 and having him go somewhere else and win big.

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Heard one of the dumbest comments ever on another board when someone said that the people who criticize Archie and want him gone are the people who no basketball and care about the program.  He also said the ones that back him have no basketball knowledge and they truly don't care about the success of the program.

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Just now, bluegrassIU said:

I may be the minority here. Despite recent trends, I have confidence Archie will be very successful long term and will eventually be a beloved IU icon after coaching here for 20 years.

He will grow, he will get his systems etc. He is a culture guy, he is building for consistency, not a quick fix.

I pray I am right.  :)

 

Can I like this 10000 times?

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5 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said:

Glad that the author of this post gives us permission to finally judge Archie’s performance next year.  Although for some reason I expect that that won’t be “allowed” next season either.

I do not want him fired but I will absolutely judge him on the body of his work.  To date, injuries or not, it has not been up to par.  That is particularly true of this year.  There were issues that were evident in Tom Crean's first 3 years and we heard the same things about him that the author of that article is saying.  We did not hire Archie Miller for 2021, we hired him to get IU back to the tournament ASAP and then to sustain and continue to build the program from there.  If the author is saying we hired Miller to put us back into the top 15bby 2021, I can buy that.  If he is saying that we cannot expect anything until 2021, I do not buy that at all.

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27 minutes ago, hoosier8760 said:

Exactly. There will be more excuses and more putting the blame back on the fans as usual. Indiana University puts forth a shitty product in the two major sports and its customers (us fans) are blamed for not wanting to buy it. It is ludicrous. 

I hope Archie figures it out but so far it is off to a horrendous start. No way to sugarcoat it.

 

8 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

I do not want him fired but I will absolutely judge him on the body of his work.  To date, injuries or not, it has not been up to par.  That is particularly true of this year.  There were issues that were evident in Tom Crean's first 3 years and we heard the same things about him that the author of that article is saying.  We did not hire Archie Miller for 2021, we hired him to get IU back to the tournament ASAP and then to sustain and continue to build the program from there.  If the author is saying we hired Miller to put us back into the top 15bby 2021, I can buy that.  If he is saying that we cannot expect anything until 2021, I do not buy that at all.

100% agree with all of this.

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22 minutes ago, hoosier8760 said:

Right on the money. We shouldn't need "athletes" to win basketball games. We need basketball players who happen to be athletes; and a coach who doesn't look like a deer in headlights. Wisconsin will beat our brains in here in a few weeks with smart, fundamental basketball all the while we will lament the lack of "athletes" we have. So sick of this "brand" of basketball at IU.

Did Archie say he needs athletes, or did the author?  B/c i agree with you, we don't have great players...being 10/55 on threes will tell you that.

DID ANYONE WATCH DAYTON/Archie?  You can tell how he coaches when he has HIS team...guys like Franklin and Phinisee are his type of guys

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34 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

Does this not sound familiar? 

"runs a system that requires versatility and length. He runs a system that is focused on defensive output and without the athletes need to run that system, struggles are inevitable."  

I thought that's what we said about CTC. 

A system focused on defensive output, was said about CTC???? No, it wasn't. Completely different systems.

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24 minutes ago, 5 championships said:

Ohio State has lost 5 straight...

They must be wanting him fired too, right? 

I'm still on board the CAM train..this reminds me of the town mob in the movie Hoosiers. I'm in no way saying we win a state championship this year, but come on, let's give the man a chance to prove himself. A season and a half is not enough time. We can argue and speculate all we want but none of us truly know what goes on with this team in the locker room.

  And i think we have confirmed that the B10 is pretty darn good this year and looks like is will be in the near future

Have faith my friends!

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20 minutes ago, bluegrassIU said:

I may be the minority here. Despite recent trends, I have confidence Archie will be very successful long term and will eventually be a beloved IU icon after coaching here for 20 years.

He will grow, he will get his systems etc. He is a culture guy, he is building for consistency, not a quick fix.

I pray I am right.  :)

 

I am (once again it seems) somewhat in the middle here. 

It's too early to make declarations about whether or not CAM is the right coach for IU, imo. It's 1 and 1/2 years in, with only just the beginning of his own recruits, and like many other coaches as already noted it generally takes a few years to get your recruiting/program up to winning at a high level, particularly in a different conference level.

On the other hand, there are things CAM needs to improve on, I think, just as clearly. Among those are outside shooting/offensive focus. The D is developing very well. The O is not. We can't be a throw-back 2-point grind it out team. That is not a recipe for success in this era of basketball, it's just not. I don't think that's his plan, but the early returns on his offensive development are at best mixed. Note that he recruited Fitzner -- that reflects recognition of the the need for outside shooting and was a good move, the guy is a 40%-plus career outside shooter. No he hasn't been playing well lately, but that is hindsight, the simple fact is it was a good move at the time. And look at Hunter. The dude can shoot, he's just not available now, which is unfortunate but not CAM's fault. 

Need time to see how all of this pans out.

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51 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Heard one of the dumbest comments ever on another board when someone said that the people who criticize Archie and want him gone are the people who no basketball and care about the program.  He also said the ones that back him have no basketball knowledge and they truly don't care about the success of the program.

Scott.  There is only one IU board worth reading for reasonable discussion.

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1 hour ago, IU Scott said:

Heard one of the dumbest comments ever on another board when someone said that the people who criticize Archie and want him gone are the people who no basketball and care about the program.  He also said the ones that back him have no basketball knowledge and they truly don't care about the success of the program.

I have to agree that’s just a dumb post.

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The only thing I will ask is if this team can’t run Archie’s offense (athleticism, IQ, whatever) why is he sacrificing wins instead of playing to the strengths of the players he does have?  Is it really that hard to adjust the offense more to the team as it is now and then as his recruits come in continue to move things to where he prefers? Unfortunately as we are seeing with IU fans all around It’s a tough hole to dig out of.  I feel like Crean made this mistake and I feel like Archie is making the same one.  Adjust things to speed up the game and utilize the skills you do have to get some wins.

Also, as we saw with the movement, recruits are not always the savior they are expected to be once they land on campus.  Every season to me is an adjustment and no scheme should be so rigid to not be able to move as needed.

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