BADGERVOL Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 I’m not gonna lie I believe in archie. I think he’s a very good coach and still growing and getting better and learning all the time. If you have a team that starts 13-2 and was a put back away from being 14-1 and we lose this many in a row what is more likely...Archie is actually a horrible coach that has NO clue what he’s doing and we just got lucky in the first 15 games...OR...He’s a good coach yet has a team that has completely splintered itself and most of that is out of the controll of the coach, and if bad enough, it’s even out of control of the seniors. Then we have a kid like Green fouling up, we have a dad flipping out on social media (which is the tip of the ice berg) I personally think it’s more likely Archie has a drama filled MESS of a team to try and coach and anyone in his spot would be struggling to try and figure out how to navigate this train wreck thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drroogh Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 I posted elsewhere, before the season we all had three concerns, Point guard, outside shooting and playing against the bigs' in the league. All of those concerns have unfortunately come to fruition! DG has been underwhelming even before recent events, RP has been a pleasant surprise but the injury absolutely set us back at the point, 3's are unquestionably a HUGE weakness, and while DD has given us more than most expected, we are still seriously undermanned at the 5 against big BIG 5's! Would a Jerome Hunter making 3's have made a difference, would a ready Race Thompson have made a difference? Nobody can say, but have to say the INJURY GOD"S definitely hit the team in it's weakest points! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 I think close games count as a 1/2 win. If you have a one possession game those can go either way. Which is how Vegas rates teams. We won several more of those than we have lost. I’d say that 13-2 start was closer to 11-4 but we were fortunate. I would say now that there is more tape on Romeo and our team it is pretty clear we struggle to shoot the ball. The B1G coaches are high level and are catching on to how to defend this team and we just aren’t adjusting well. To me that is just as much coach as players. We have to find innovative ways to get easy baskets and the ball in position with players that they can score from. It sucks that many of our players have missed much of our practices and many games playing together. I do think there is some internal stuff going on with some of the players and what worries me is we are a young team...like really young...and our upper class man who is suppose to be a leader is suspended for selfish immature action and this team doesn’t seem to have a vocal leader bring them together. For whatever reason this team just doesn’t come out with energy in most of our games. I think a lot of that comes from our best players are very laid back. I was hoping this team would be coming together about now to make a B1G run but now I’m hoping they did in and get this team to the tourney. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 I think part of a coach's responsibility is to get everyone to buy into a common goal. From the events you've listed, and who knows how many more we don't know about yet, Archie has not been unable to do that. So, to answer the question in your thread title.....No, I do not think the types of issues we have should point away from Archie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milehiiu Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 There was a time when people said. Bobby Knight could beat you with his players. And then take your players and beat you with them. I think that was true at one time. However, in today's environment... I think it takes more than that. In order to win today, regardless of how good a coach you are, one has to have the players. ___________________ Take Bruce Weber for example. He took Illinois to the national championship game with Self's players. After a while, not being able to recruit the state of Illinois... BAM was a failure, and got fired. However, BAM has recovered. Learned how to recruit. And is winning with great players, once again. Bottom line. It's not always the coach. But the players who are playing for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FWIUFan Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 39 minutes ago, BADGERVOL said: I’m not gonna lie I believe in archie. I think he’s a very good coach and still growing and getting better and learning all the time. If you have a team that starts 13-2 and was a put back away from being 14-1 and we lose this many in a row what is more likely...Archie is actually a horrible coach that has NO clue what he’s doing and we just got lucky in the first 15 games...OR...He’s a good coach yet has a team that has completely splintered itself and most of that is out of the controll of the coach, and if bad enough, it’s even out of control of the seniors. Then we have a kid like Green fouling up, we have a dad flipping out on social media (which is the tip of the ice berg) I personally think it’s more likely Archie has a drama filled MESS of a team to try and coach and anyone in his spot would be struggling to try and figure out how to navigate this train wreck thoughts? I posited this concern in my response to TDH's article. My question was how does a team that dismantled Marquette early in the season suddenly "forget" how to play defense and now offense? Green's presumed dismissal, Justin's Dad's Tweet, and as Fish stated the lack of an "edge" while playing certainly gives one pause that something much more sinister is at play with the team. It is certainly reasonable to deduce that there is dissension in the ranks. Greens dismissal may well be the first move to cull the problems that may exist. The lack of emotion and lethargy we've seen would certainly be a result. TDH responded that he did not have any evidence of such problems. My visceral response is that could explain the lack of leadership that we've been wanting as well. The players definitely deserve responsibly for what we have seen lately. I hope there aren't any more cancers in the group but if there are CAM has to act decisively and remove them. I truly hope I'm wrong but something just doesn't smell right to me lately. This team is more talented than their recent record even with their injuries and shortcomings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 11 minutes ago, FWIUFan said: I posited this concern in my response to TDH's article. My question was how does a team that dismantled Marquette early in the season suddenly "forget" how to play defense and now offense? Green's presumed dismissal, Justin's Dad's Tweet, and as Fish stated the lack of an "edge" while playing certainly gives one pause that something much more sinister is at play with the team. It is certainly reasonable to deduce that there is dissension in the ranks. Greens dismissal may well be the first move to cull the problems that may exist. The lack of emotion and lethargy we've seen would certainly be a result. TDH responded that he did not have any evidence of such problems. My visceral response is that could explain the lack of leadership that we've been wanting as well. The players definitely deserve responsibly for what we have seen lately. I hope there aren't any more cancers in the group but if there are CAM has to act decisively and remove them. I truly hope I'm wrong but something just doesn't smell right to me lately. This team is more talented than their recent record even with their injuries and shortcomings. "visceral response"? Now that cracks me up. I had wanna those once and I got married. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierMatty Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 11 hours ago, milehiiu said: There was a time when people said. Bobby Knight could beat you with his players. And then take your players and beat you with them. I think that was true at one time. However, in today's environment... I think it takes more than than. In order to win today, regardless of how good a coach you are, one has to have the players. ___________________ Take Bruce Weber for example. He took Illinois to the national championship game with Self's players. After a while, not being able to recruit the state of Illinois... BAM was a failure, and got fired. However, BAM has recovered. Learned how to recruit. And is winning with great players, once again. Bottom line. It's not always the coach. But the players who are playing for him. When people reference back to the Knight days I find this so irrelevant to the situation today. Coaching and playing with grit certainly still matters but it only takes you so far. There is so much more talent today and parity among programs because of it. If you don't have the right personal to match up with your conference or college basketball as a whole you will lose. If you're completely outmanned coaching these kids can only do so much. You can't suddenly coach kid to he a dead eye 3 point shooter or grow to two feet taller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IowaHoosierFan Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 It points to both. The coach is ultimately responsible for his team and the product he puts on the floor. The players are responsible for performing to the best of their ability within what the coach wants. There are times when those don't always line up. Archie needs to do something to right this ship. Yes we are injured and he can't do anything about that. But he should be able to adapt to teams who adapt to us. If the starters are not willing to put forth the effort then play down the bench until you find those that want to play hard. I do think he is a good coach. I think he needs at least 1 more year before he is on the hot seat if he doesn't produce. But he needs to do something to calm the fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milehiiu Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 22 minutes ago, HoosierMatty said: When people reference back to the Knight days I find this so irrelevant to the situation today. Coaching and playing with grit certainly still matters but it only takes you so far. There is so much more talent today and parity among programs because of it. If you don't have the right personal to match up with your conference or college basketball as a whole you will lose. If you're completely outmanned coaching these kids can only do so much. You can't suddenly coach kid to he a dead eye 3 point shooter or grow to two feet taller. Agree with you Matty. Particularly in today's world where there seems to be (at least to me) so much more talent spread across the entire college world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddy River Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 12 hours ago, milehiiu said: There was a time when people said. Bobby Knight could beat you with his players. And then take your players and beat you with them. Well, then it would be you vs. your former players. That doesn't seem very fair.....pretty sure I could coach 5 guys to beat one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 Speaking of Knight....that 84-85 season spiraled out of control pretty fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATX_sig Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 1 hour ago, IowaHoosierFan said: It points to both. The coach is ultimately responsible for his team and the product he puts on the floor. The players are responsible for performing to the best of their ability within what the coach wants. There are times when those don't always line up. Archie needs to do something to right this ship. Yes we are injured and he can't do anything about that. But he should be able to adapt to teams who adapt to us. If the starters are not willing to put forth the effort then play down the bench until you find those that want to play hard. I do think he is a good coach. I think he needs at least 1 more year before he is on the hot seat if he doesn't produce. But he needs to do something to calm the fans. Like when he gave Damezi and Jake a shot to make plays against Northwestern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IowaHoosierFan Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 7 minutes ago, ATX_sig said: Like when he gave Damezi and Jake a shot to make plays against Northwestern. Yes, but when i say this i mean to start them. If your starters don't want to play with passion and hustle then play everyone else. If you're going to lose, then at least get experience for the kids of the future. The bench can be a great motivator. And CAM does't really use it. He is really trying to win, sometimes taking a loss to make a statement to your players can go along way. Just like getting a technical can have a positive affect for your team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th&Jackson Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 This team just doesn't have enough scoring potential. Only two players average double figures and they get zilch in scoring off the bench. When the two scorers get swarmed, get tired or go to the bench, they have fatal stretches of non-scoring. There's no Vinnie "Microwave" Johnson on the bench. Green had the potential to fill that role, but that didn't happen. When guys can't hit wide open threes it deflates momentum. Most of the first half against MD was a defensive clinic (as the announcers and studio crew pointed out) and the offense was clicking as designed. MD then pounded the ball inside, IU got fatigued and couldn't maintain the defensive intensity. That was a tough loss that, I believe, really affected how they showed up against Nebraska. Then it's just kind of snowballed and as other have said, the weaknesses have been exploited Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5 championships Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 Earlier, I pointed out that 84-85 season. This season doesn't even remotely come close to that one. The 83-84 team made the EE. They had all their pieces coming back for the following season with a few new faces. They were pre-season #4. They went into Big 10 play 8-2 with losses to Louisville and Notre Dame. They headed to Ann Arbor as the #12 team in the country to face the #16 Wolverines. They won by 25(9-2). Promptly dropped the next match-up at MSU(9-3). Then won the next two and rose to #8(11-3). They finished the season 15-13. Same team they had the year before. What happened that year? Sure as heck wasn't the coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th&Jackson Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, rico said: Earlier, I pointed out that 84-85 season. This season doesn't even remotely come close to that one. The 83-84 team made the EE. They had all their pieces coming back for the following season with a few new faces. They were pre-season #4. They went into Big 10 play 8-2 with losses to Louisville and Notre Dame. They headed to Ann Arbor as the #12 team in the country to face the #16 Wolverines. They won by 25(9-2). Promptly dropped the next match-up at MSU(9-3). Then won the next two and rose to #8(11-3). They finished the season 15-13. Same team they had the year before. What happened that year? Sure as heck wasn't the coach. I believe Dakich was a Senior team captain on that team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said: I believe Dakich was a Senior team captain on that team. He definitely was a Senior..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 15 minutes ago, rico said: Earlier, I pointed out that 84-85 season. This season doesn't even remotely come close to that one. The 83-84 team made the EE. They had all their pieces coming back for the following season with a few new faces. They were pre-season #4. They went into Big 10 play 8-2 with losses to Louisville and Notre Dame. They headed to Ann Arbor as the #12 team in the country to face the #16 Wolverines. They won by 25(9-2). Promptly dropped the next match-up at MSU(9-3). Then won the next two and rose to #8(11-3). They finished the season 15-13. Same team they had the year before. What happened that year? Sure as heck wasn't the coach. Was that the year that Giomi and Simmons was benched then transferred. I remember the game at UI where he benched all of his starters except for UWE and lost fairly big Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 7 minutes ago, IU Scott said: Was that the year that Giomi and Simmons was benched then transferred. I remember the game at UI where he benched all of his starters except for UWE and lost fairly big Remember the game, I am thinking IU only lost by 10 or so. But it was low scoring. I do believe Giomi had left the team before that. I also believe that Simmons stuck around for then entire year, but had already fell out of favor with Knight before that. But it is the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, rico said: Remember the game, I am thinking IU only lost by 10 or so. But it was low scoring. I do believe Giomi had left the team before that. I also believe that Simmons stuck around for then entire year, but had already fell out of favor with Knight before that. But it is the year. Kind of regrouped and made the NIT final that year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 Just now, IU Scott said: Kind of regrouped and made the NIT final that year Yes they did....but that was the first year of a 64 team field. Had IU just finished .500 in conference, I believe they would have been in the Dance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parakeet Jones Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 That 84-85 team was the first one I ever followed. I was six when the season started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted January 25, 2019 Report Share Posted January 25, 2019 33 minutes ago, Parakeet Jones said: That 84-85 team was the first one I ever followed. I was six when the season started. LOL, well I had better luck......I was six in '73 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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