Michigan Postgame Thread

[slojoe]

16 minutes ago, Fiveoutofsix said:

Those missed calls - I have never seen anything like it, not even in High School.  The reversed out of bounds to Michigan.  Step over the line.  Travel.  

The reversed out of bounds call was the worst as far as I could tell.  The ref that made the call was in great position.  He could see the out of bounds line.  It looked like one of our guys tipped it, but he didn't.  The ref who made the call was in position to see that, too.

[Zuckerkorn]

Here's some things for my wish list going forward:

Short Term:

We aren't going anywhere, post season wise, so time to cut line on the Fitzner & McRoberts minutes.  Get the younger guys in and let them make their mistakes but get some experience. There is no benefit to giving underperforming seniors significant PT.

Recruit, recruit, recruit.  The season is more than half over and we are what we are.  The players have had lots of practice and games, they aren't going to suddenly develop a jump shot, better understanding of where they should be on defense or killer instinct.  Hit the recruiting trail whenever possible, scout your butts off for potential quality 5th year seniors.

Mid Term:

Quit putting all of the off season emphasis on strength and conditioning.  How many games have we been physically superior to our opponents?  Spend time practicing FT's, shooting drills, and scrimmaging.  I don't give a tinker's dam if player X can bench press 500 pounds or jump over the backboard - I want to see good play on the basketball court.  This isn't an NBA training grounds, it's a place to win basketball games GD it!

If what we're doing to prepare and teach isn't working, fix it.  If that means replacing an assistant or two, so be it.  If this garbage continues, they'll all be looking for jobs eventually.

Recruit, recruit, recruit.  It's obvious to anyone with a pulse that this team has no one that can shoot the ball.  Hell, in the last two games our opponents have had bigs that proved to be better shooters than anyone on our roster.  Base offers on needed skills and attitude/demeanor - not just rankings and where they play H.S. ball.  If there aren't elite level shooters in Indiana, look elsewhere.  I appreciate the emphasis on home grown talent, but if they don't measure up to what we need, let someone else have them.

Players that don't follow rules, gripe about their roles, or bring a negative attitude into the locker room need to do everyone a favor and move on.

Long Term:

I'm not a great student of the game, but CAM needs to take a good hard look at what kind of Offense and Defense he wants to play in the big ten.  Someone said the pack line is supposed to generate the ability to run a fast paced offense.  Great, if it happens and works.  One thing I believe from watching for 40+ years: you might want to play a fast paced game, and be good at it, but you must be able to execute in grind it out type games.  There will always be teams that find a way to slow the game down and we've seen repeatedly that if you can't adapt, you're dead in the water.

 

Finally:

Archie was correct about the team being soft and scared.  That is on both the staff and players to get over.  Some players are just naturally hard-nosed and supremely tough minded - we have zero of those players.  It seems that there are two things that can push the players to get over this attitude: anger and pride.  If the response of the crowd bailing out with 8 minutes to go, and the disappointment from fans and online doesn't do it, I don't know what will.  Whatever it takes, Archie has to figure it out.

Romeo has so much natural ability, but it's becoming obvious it doesn't include shooting from distance or an aggresive approach to the game.  Purely my opinion, but I believe he's great when it the game gives him what he's good at but when challenged he can't handle it.  The kid really needs to improve on so much and I believe another season or two in college would be his best bet.  Still, if he's told there's a few million dollars with his name on it, he has to take it (I guess).  I fear if he goes pro after this season, where he'll be going up an even bigger improvement in talent, he could flounder and be done in only a few years.  If he's a lottery pick and doesn't deliver, the pressure he's feeling now will be nothing compared to what he'd see in a big market like NY, Phil, Chi.

I'm not giving up on the coach or team and I'm (almost) certain they understand that their play this month has been putrid.  As Archie said, it's time to put on their big-boy pants.

 

Now someone get me some epsom salts for my fingers, all that typing is killing them.

[NotIThatLives]

I think CAM left the starters in late there until about 2 minutes to go to drill in the embarrassment.   

What happened to the defense Justin Smith played against Louisville?  That has disappeared,  guys blow by him.  

I love Juwan and he is asked to do so much bit his defense has been atrocious, maybe it's CAMs, play Moore or go to a zone.  I don't care if he made 2 or 3 blocks.  

Romeo, has he given up?  Poor defense.   Why can he not hit thebroad side of a barn?  I mentioned an extra hitch as he rises in his 3 ball that isn't there in his jumpers.  Pain?

Could bring up others but, if CAM is going to stick with guys that aren't going to be here next year, it's time to abandon the system and adapt to personnel.  Zone, press, mix it up defensively.  

There were some attempts to free up Rob, Fitz, and Demezi even got a clean look.  Outside of Rob, these are just not B1G ready guys.  

Offensively, who you going to bring in to change things up?

[Zuckerkorn]

1 hour ago, Fiveoutofsix said:

Those missed calls - I have never seen anything like it, not even in High School.  The reversed out of bounds to Michigan.  Step over the line.  Travel.  

It's a painful stretch, but one silver lining is that our dwindling post-season chances mean less revenue for the b10 and their God-awful referees.  Last night reminded me of watching IU football, there are always awful calls given to ranked teams that kill any momentum we may have had.  In football I ALWAYS root against every B10 team in post season just because of the assistance they get from the officials (read: B10) to maintain their rankings and lofty record.  That first half made me think maybe the same thing is going on in B10 basketball too.

[HoosierJax]

26 minutes ago, Zuckerkorn said:

Here's some things for my wish list going forward:

Short Term:

We aren't going anywhere, post season wise, so time to cut line on the Fitzner & McRoberts minutes.  Get the younger guys in and let them make their mistakes but get some experience. There is no benefit to giving underperforming seniors significant PT.

Recruit, recruit, recruit.  The season is more than half over and we are what we are.  The players have had lots of practice and games, they aren't going to suddenly develop a jump shot, better understanding of where they should be on defense or killer instinct.  Hit the recruiting trail whenever possible, scout your butts off for potential quality 5th year seniors.

Mid Term:

Quit putting all of the off season emphasis on strength and conditioning.  How many games have we been physically superior to our opponents?  Spend time practicing FT's, shooting drills, and scrimmaging.  I don't give a tinker's dam if player X can bench press 500 pounds or jump over the backboard - I want to see good play on the basketball court.  This isn't an NBA training grounds, it's a place to win basketball games GD it!

If what we're doing to prepare and teach isn't working, fix it.  If that means replacing an assistant or two, so be it.  If this garbage continues, they'll all be looking for jobs eventually.

Recruit, recruit, recruit.  It's obvious to anyone with a pulse that this team has no one that can shoot the ball.  Hell, in the last two games our opponents have had bigs that proved to be better shooters than anyone on our roster.  Base offers on needed skills and attitude/demeanor - not just rankings and where they play H.S. ball.  If there aren't elite level shooters in Indiana, look elsewhere.  I appreciate the emphasis on home grown talent, but if they don't measure up to what we need, let someone else have them.

Players that don't follow rules, gripe about their roles, or bring a negative attitude into the locker room need to do everyone a favor and move on.

Long Term:

I'm not a great student of the game, but CAM needs to take a good hard look at what kind of Offense and Defense he wants to play in the big ten.  Someone said the pack line is supposed to generate the ability to run a fast paced offense.  Great, if it happens and works.  One thing I believe from watching for 40+ years: you might want to play a fast paced game, and be good at it, but you must be able to execute in grind it out type games.  There will always be teams that find a way to slow the game down and we've seen repeatedly that if you can't adapt, you're dead in the water.

 

Finally:

Archie was correct about the team being soft and scared.  That is on both the staff and players to get over.  Some players are just naturally hard-nosed and supremely tough minded - we have zero of those players.  It seems that there are two things that can push the players to get over this attitude: anger and pride.  If the response of the crowd bailing out with 8 minutes to go, and the disappointment from fans and online doesn't do it, I don't know what will.  Whatever it takes, Archie has to figure it out.

Romeo has so much natural ability, but it's becoming obvious it doesn't include shooting from distance or an aggresive approach to the game.  Purely my opinion, but I believe he's great when it the game gives him what he's good at but when challenged he can't handle it.  The kid really needs to improve on so much and I believe another season or two in college would be his best bet.  Still, if he's told there's a few million dollars with his name on it, he has to take it (I guess).  I fear if he goes pro after this season, where he'll be going up an even bigger improvement in talent, he could flounder and be done in only a few years.  If he's a lottery pick and doesn't deliver, the pressure he's feeling now will be nothing compared to what he'd see in a big market like NY, Phil, Chi.

I'm not giving up on the coach or team and I'm (almost) certain they understand that their play this month has been putrid.  As Archie said, it's time to put on their big-boy pants.

 

Now someone get me some epsom salts for my fingers, all that typing is killing them.

Mid term- if a player wants to be good at his or her sport it requires dedication and sacrifice, the good ones practice on their on time plus with the team,coaching is also part of it...i dont think some of are players have it....nice post

[NotIThatLives]

Why do our point guards look to the bench for a play?  Get the hell out of here with that.  

[Artesian_86]

Here's an idea,.....I mentioned a much needed "players only" meeting a few weeks back when we began this slide. Wouldn't it be productive if a few former players who finished a 6-25 season under Dan Dakitch or players from Mike Davis' 14-15 inaugural 1st season came in and spoke to the team. As a matter of fact, any former player who was a part of IU during times of adversity. It would definitely not hurt..

[iuthruandthru]

17 minutes ago, Artesian_86 said:

Here's an idea,.....I mentioned a much needed "players only" meeting a few weeks back when we began this slide. Wouldn't it be productive if a few former players who finished a 6-25 season under Dan Dakitch or players from Mike Davis' 14-15 inaugural 1st season came in and spoke to the team. As a matter of fact, any former player who was a part of IU during times of adversity. It would definitely not hurt..

I think this is a great idea actually 

[Artesian_86]

3 minutes ago, iuthruandthru said:

I think this is a great idea actually 

Something has to change....it definitely sounds intriguing to me!

[iuthruandthru]

2 minutes ago, Artesian_86 said:

Something has to change....it definitely sounds intriguing to me!

Talking to people that have been players at IU in similar situations I would hope would do something.  If anything we would really see who can be inspired even if for a few games.  If they still have no pulse after that, I got nothing

[Artesian_86]

Just now, iuthruandthru said:

Talking to people that have been players at IU in similar situations I would hope would do something.  If anything we would really see who can be inspired even if for a few games.  If they still have no pulse after that, I got nothing

How can this seed be planted?

[Bowhunter]

28 minutes ago, Artesian_86 said:

Here's an idea,.....I mentioned a much needed "players only" meeting a few weeks back when we began this slide. Wouldn't it be productive if a few former players who finished a 6-25 season under Dan Dakitch or players from Mike Davis' 14-15 inaugural 1st season came in and spoke to the team. As a matter of fact, any former player who was a part of IU during times of adversity. It would definitely not hurt..

I bet Dakitch would be welcomed after all his criticism lol.

But yes they need a wake up call

[Zuckerkorn]

Bring in Slick Leonard and give him a hockey stick and rack of basketballs.  Slick bleeds cream and crimson.

(for those not ancient like myself, Leonard went off on his Pacer team in the locker room and even chased a player into a toilet stall with a hockey stick,  He also threw a rack of balls and kicked basketballs up into the stands).

Seriously, I know he wouldn't be able to do it but somebody like Michael Lewis or even Dane Fife would be good because they played here in this century and exhibited some fire on the court.

[Bowhunter]

1 minute ago, Zuckerkorn said:

Bring in Slick Leonard and give him a hockey stick and rack of basketballs.  Slick bleeds cream and crimson.

(for those not ancient like myself, Leonard went off on his Pacer team in the locker room and even chased a player into a toilet stall with a hockey stick,  He also threw a rack of balls and kicked basketballs up into the stands).

Seriously, I know he wouldn't be able to do it but somebody like Michael Lewis or even Dane Fife would be good because they played here in this century and exhibited some fire on the court.

I wish Fife was here some way some how. He was such a tough player and had a great basketball IQ. Unfortunately that ship has sailed, and I doubt he would want to help us out considering he is constantly recruiting against us and in a few years will be coaching against us as a Head coach still wearing Green.

[IU Scott]

2 hours ago, Rev_AK said:

( I guess this should have gone to “what happened to this team” thread) As for me, I have pretty much given up on this SEASON but not on this TEAM, and not on this coach... yet. Things have fallen off the tracks for all the reasons we have already mentioned, plus, what I think is another dynamic- the fans. Armaan Franklin went on Twitter to try to calm fans down, and his mother has been out there, too. Green tweeted “Wishes Granted” after his suspension, in my mind, to acknowledge that he knew fans wanted him gone. The point? These kids and their families are of the generation that social media plays a much more integral role in their lives than it does to older folks who just like to go vent. These kids know what the fans are saying. My ( newest) theory about this collapse, is that the team is tired of receiving hate and constant criticism from parts of the fan base. Does anyone remember when the team released video before the season and Fitzner hit something like 11 3’s in a row? Now, he is so scared because he feels so much pressure that it’s affecting his confidence and he’s a shell of the shooter he was. He can’t hit the broad side of a barn.. same with pretty much the rest of the team. Sarcastically cheering them when they scored, booing them off the floor, those are all things that really bother some of these kids. Think Romeo wants to sign autographs anymore for folks who are saying really ugly things about him? I am a regular on this board because it’s the only place that shows civility. So my fan criticism does NOT extend to this forum. When a team collapses like this, there are big problems, and it’s not above criticism. But the personal and hateful level it has gotten to us off the charts. ( look at peoples comments on green’s twitter) I think this team sees and hears the criticism and is reacting to it. Shame on Dakich for what he has done. I am 45 years old, and care way too much. I’m as upset as the next guy. But what good does it do to go on the #iubb thread and speak as if we are the “BBN”?  As I said, I have officially given up on this season, and as a New Albany native, and life long IU fan, the layers of disappointment are hard to explain, you wouldn’t know what’s it’s like hearing the Louisville and KY fans... horrible. The only thing compelling me now is to see if they ever win again.....

Some of our fan base has their head stuck in the sand if they don't think their comments have an effect on the team or future recruits.

[IU Scott]

2 hours ago, dbmhoosier said:

Billingsley was nice enough to mail me one.  I may burn it today.

Seems like you might take a game way to seriously because at the end of the day this is just a game played by 18-21 year old kids.  I think some of us grew up wanting a chance to play for IU but was not good enough so we live our lives through these kids but we are not the ones out there working hard every day.

[IU Scott]

2 hours ago, CincyHoosier said:

On the social media topic:

This is a real problem with our youth.  Parents need to do a much better job at restricting the use of social media for their kids.  It absolutely affects brain development.  It absolutely is consumed at extremely unhealthy levels.  

Our players would do themselves a huuuuuge favor by getting off social media.  I know, it sounds outrageous.  I mean, you could blame it on crazy fans all you want but the players have control over which voices they allow to influence their lives.  They have zero control over the twittersphere.  Anonymous people in the social media outlets seem like the last voices I would let influence my life decisions.  

Why should the kids have to do all the changes so why not put it on the fans to stop being idiots and grow up

[Hoosier987]

I actually never thought I would say this, mainly do to his terrible defense...but this team needs a James Blackmon jr - someone that can shoot the ball and make it. Did anyone notice how Charles Matthews and Jordan Poole could straight pull up with a defender in their face and swish the basket WITH CONFIDENCE. We don’t have one person who can do that or let alone hit the broad side of a barn. Finally, for the love of god, someone please tell Justin Smith to stop taking threes and throwing up wild layups that have no chance of going in. These are like turnovers. As much as his dad may  think he’s Kobe Bryant, he’s not, and he’s definitely not at this time of his career. His role is to be a rebounder, a defender and to get most of his points on put backs/dunks.

Lastly, I’ve said this before and will say it again. Romeo should come back next year and play with his buddies...Franklin/Brooks(fingers crossed)/TJD and Phinisee. Plus a healthy Hunter and maybe a transfer or two, then the whole team will be full of Archie guys.

[Colonialcrester]

 Obviously we have no one with a Human Resources background.  I spent part of the last month learning from our HR department how to build successful teams and having come away from over 40 hours of training I have realized that Archie and our forum have done everything wrong so far to increase our team cohesiveness.  

So having been educated on this I have a few suggestions .

1) I have not seen any quick team building excercises.  During pregame shoot arounds, Archie needs have the team stand in two lines...one behind the other with their backs toward the other line.  Have the starters fall backwards and "learn" to trust his teammate to catch him.  Doing this in front of the fans should provide the best results.  Another suggestion would be to do one of those group painting programs where everyone is told what to paint but you just have one set of instruction.  That would be fun for the team and should be done in front of the fans, maybe charge a can for charity.

2) Motivations speakers.  I mean is there any corporation that doesn't use motivational speakers?  Get the guy who became a professional baseball player at the age of 35, I think he is pretty cheap now and he could really get the team going!  This doesn't have to be done in front of the fans.  Actually I would prefer that I don't see this aspect of team building and motivation.

3)  According to my HR department, knowing what my Briggs Meyer personality is should really help me with regards to team building.  I belive I am  ENTP.  The reason we are performing poorly could be because Archie is an ISTJ and everyone knows what happens with that combination.  If you don't want to spend the money on BM then there are other good personality tests.  I discovered that I was a dolphin in last years personality test which my HR manager reminds me most of the time and is used as the reason why I am assigned certain projects.  I am not sure what animal Archie is but I think it would be beneficial for us all to know.

4) Taking classes on how to relate to this young generation. I look at our coaching staff and see everyone is over 22!  No way they are hip to the young generation.  How un Phat is that?? It certainly isn't groovy to be out of sync with lingo and trends.

5) Toxic masculinity.  Need I say more?  

Like I said, having spent many hours learning all these things I am embarrassed that our Hoosiers haven't taken these first steps toward being a real team.  The blame is on IU's HR department and if they don't get this stuff together our team will be playing ball next to a van down by the river.

[IUDan93]

Best to worst scenarios for this program:

1) Tough minded team that is physically dominant team that wins at a high rate and almost never loses at home

2) Tough minded team that is not physically dominant that wins more than not and makes other teams buckle their chin straps

3)Tough minded team that is neither physically dominant nor wins more than not, but plays with pride, grit and still makes other teams buckle their chin straps.

4) Physically dominant team that wins more than not, but lacks identity and makes the fans think we just need shooters or bench players to come in.

5) Whatever the heck we are right now.  Maybe we are like #4 without the physical dominance.

CAM will be successful at IU if he builds a culture of toughness and accountability and does not worry about players leaving because they don't fit this mold.  

I will edit to include Colonialcrester's trust fall idea.

[Indykev]

10 hours ago, cohete15 said:

If I am Jake, Cliff or Damezi...I am reaching out to coaches at other schools. If they can't get PT in this dumpster fire......

Do you think something might be going on we don't know about? hmmmmm

[Indykev]

1 hour ago, Artesian_86 said:

How can this seed be planted?

Ask Devonte...

[Colonialcrester]

18 minutes ago, IUDan93 said:

Best to worst scenarios for this program:

1) Tough minded team that is physically dominant team that wins at a high rate and almost never loses at home

2) Tough minded team that is not physically dominant that wins more than not and makes other teams buckle their chin straps

3)Tough minded team that is neither physically dominant nor wins more than not, but plays with pride, grit and still makes other teams buckle their chin straps.

4) Physically dominant team that wins more than not, but lacks identity and makes the fans think we just need shooters or bench players to come in.

5) Whatever the heck we are right now.  Maybe we are like #4 without the physical dominance.

CAM will be successful at IU if he builds a culture of toughness and accountability and does not worry about players leaving because they don't fit this mold.  

I will edit to include Colonialcrester's trust fall idea.

There is a whole lot of toxic masculinity here.  I am not sure it will get by the HR department.  I saw physical dominant 5 times!  No way we can win with that attitude!  I think we need to include some sort of group rap session where they can air their grievances...maybe have some sort of spritual breakthru and give them life skills they can use for decades.  I think that is more important than any "wins."  

[Indykev]

1 hour ago, iuthruandthru said:

Talking to people that have been players at IU in similar situations I would hope would do something.  If anything we would really see who can be inspired even if for a few games.  If they still have no pulse after that, I got nothing

Bring in Troy Williams, Jay Edwards, Landon Turner and Stew Robinson on how to play better stoned out of your mind.

[iuthruandthru]

7 minutes ago, Indykev said:

Ask Devonte...

Unfortunately he smoked all the seeds before any could be planted....