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Clifton Moore


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Juwan needs a break from opposing centers. Teske is the largest basketball player I've ever seen in person. Juwan had zero shot against him. It's an absolute travesty that Moore never saw the court against Michigan.

-On the road @ Penn State, he played 7 minutes, was 1-1 on FG with an And-1 and made his FT. He had 4 rebounds, 1 block and 1 steal. He did have 2 turnovers, however. (IIRC, one was a charge)
-The following 2 games, against Butler and Louisville, he was rewarded with a big fat DNP.
-Against Purdue, he played 3 minutes and didn't really do anything.
-He saw ZERO action @ Maryland despite their massive post presence.
-In 2 minutes @ Northwestern, Clifton Moore had 2 rebounds and a block.
-In 5 minutes against Nebraska, he had 5 points on 2 FG's with 2 trips to the FT line and 3 rebounds. 
-He saw ZERO action against Michigan on Friday, despite their massive post presence. 

These are stats accumulated in the middle of the game...not garbage time.

I ask...for anyone...what gives?

Edited by cohete15
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30 minutes ago, Goose said:

I was just looking at the hoosiers season stats, and it seems strange that Moore and Forrester cannot get more floor time.  Now I understand that stats aren't everything, but when they have played their very limited minutes, they have produced.

Moore has played a total of 56 minutes this year. Basically two games, if he was playing starter minutes.  In that time he has 17 points on 63% shooting, 23 rebounds, 3 blocks and 4 assists.

Forrester has played a total of 30 minutes, about one game's worth. He has scored 23 points on 67% shooting, 9 rebounds, and 3 blocks.

I know alot of this was in scrub time, but they can't provide any minutes when the regulars are struggling or need a rest?

Now last year I thought McRoberts play helped the team and I thought he deserved most if not all of his minutes.  This year he hasn't passed the eye test for me and so I looked at his stats.

McRoberts has played a total of 275 minutes. He has scored 15 points on 32% shooting, 43 rebounds and 12 steals.  I know that he is not asked to score alot, but both Forrester and Moore have outscored him in very limited minutes.  Moore and Forrester have shot poorly from the line in 10 and 7 attempts, but McRoberts has not even had a FT attempt in 275 minutes.  He has put zero pressure on opposing defenses.  The best thing that can be said about McRoberts offense right now is that he doesn't turn it over much with just 7 TO.  That could be product of not trying to make anything happen on offense.

I am really just perplexed. When IU was getting pounded on the boards in the second half against Maryland, I thought that was an opportunity for these two because they had looked good at rebounding in their time on the floor.

Great first post.

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@The Daily Hoosier I don’t get to go through all of Archie’s pressers so if you have the answer why Clifton doesn’t get more run please feel me in or if you get a chance can you lay out the case hoosiersportsnation as a whole feels about Moore (the energy, productivity, ineffectiveness of other players) and find out why Archie doesn’t think the kid has earned more minutes? Of course being a reporter maybe you could phrase it in a way that wouldn’t be offensive. Thanks!

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Clifton does a couple of things.  He provides length defensively.  It gets Morgan off the post defensively, which is too taxing.  Secondly, its immaterial whether he is better than Smith.  Playing him over Smith can be used to get through to Smith on a variety of fronts.  You can lose six straight without gifting Smith 30 minutes a game with no consequences.  

The people who say, Moore isn't as good as Smith, there's a reason Moore is on the bench yada yada yada miss the point.  Classic Bob Knight methodology calls for playing Moore as a way to get through to Smith.  You lose a smaller hand now to win bigger hands later.

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25 minutes ago, dgambill said:

@The Daily Hoosier I don’t get to go through all of Archie’s pressers so if you have the answer why Clifton doesn’t get more run please feel me in or if you get a chance can you lay out the case hoosiersportsnation as a whole feels about Moore (the energy, productivity, ineffectiveness of other players) and find out why Archie doesn’t think the kid has earned more minutes? Of course being a reporter maybe you could phrase it in a way that wouldn’t be offensive. Thanks!

When Archie has been asked about getting him more minutes, or anyone for that matter, the response is pretty much a vanilla "yeah we need to find a way" kind of thing.  The fact that it for the most part doesn't happen is telling.  

Based on what I have seen, I think those minutes are coming down to Moore and Fitzner, and Archie isn't thrilled about either.  While he is substantially improved, I think Moore hurts you more than he helps you in every regard except rim protection.  He can be a decent rebounder too but he gets pushed around.  Admittedly, Fitzner hasn't been better.

I think Archie is hoping that somehow, some way Fitzner finds his early season touch because he is so desperate for perimeter shooting.  He is basically placing a higher value on Fitzner's shooting than Moore's shot blocking, which I get.  But it is really pick your poison right now.

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21 minutes ago, The Daily Hoosier said:

When Archie has been asked about getting him more minutes, or anyone for that matter, the response is pretty much a vanilla "yeah we need to find a way" kind of thing.  The fact that it for the most part doesn't happen is telling.  

Based on what I have seen, I think those minutes are coming down to Moore and Fitzner, and Archie isn't thrilled about either.  While he is substantially improved, I think Moore hurts you more than he helps you in every regard except rim protection.  He can be a decent rebounder too but he gets pushed around.  Admittedly, Fitzner hasn't been better.

I think Archie is hoping that somehow, some way Fitzner finds his early season touch because he is so desperate for perimeter shooting.  He is basically placing a higher value on Fitzner's shooting than Moore's shot blocking, which I get.  But it is really pick your poison right now.

I don't buy it.  Having Anyone at the 5 lets Morgan play the 4 and a much better match-up.  Moore's defense is no worst than Fitz and he probably has a better pointer per minute played than Fitz.  And the way everyone is shooting, can Moore shooting 3's be any worst than McBob or Fitz?

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I think IU will win games again, but someone has to lead with mental toughness.

I think Fitzner will contribute at some point.  He's not this bad, at least shooting.  He hit a nice short range shot the other day.  I really believe he may get over the hump soon.  

Damezi did not hit but I thought when Damezi and Fitz were out there together, the floor actually had spacing.  I hope Archie gives that a hard look.  Not necessarily a starting lineup but how about this group: Fitzner, Morgan, Anderson, Langford, Phinisee.  Swap in Durham for Anderson.  I'd like to see that crew play extended minutes.  You'd get the floor stretched.  Moore could come in some for Fitz.  

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5 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

I think IU will win games again, but someone has to lead with mental toughness.

I think Fitzner will contribute at some point.  He's not this bad, at least shooting.  He hit a nice short range shot the other day.  I really believe he may get over the hump soon.  

Damezi did not hit but I thought when Damezi and Fitz were out there together, the floor actually had spacing.  I hope Archie gives that a hard look.  Not necessarily a starting lineup but how about this group: Fitzner, Morgan, Anderson, Langford, Phinisee.  Swap in Durham for Anderson.  I'd like to see that crew play extended minutes.  You'd get the floor stretched.  Moore could come in some for Fitz.  

It is worth a try but up to this point Archie has been about as flexible as a 105 year old hooker

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1 hour ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

I don't buy it.  Having Anyone at the 5 lets Morgan play the 4 and a much better match-up.  Moore's defense is no worst than Fitz and he probably has a better pointer per minute played than Fitz.  And the way everyone is shooting, can Moore shooting 3's be any worst than McBob or Fitz?

"Having anyone at the 5"......to guard Teske, Ward, Trevion Williams, Happ, Fernando, Pardon, Wesson

If you think things are bad now.....

There is a reason why Moore got those minutes against Nebraska, who doesn't have a quality or massive big.

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18 hours ago, Goose said:

I was just looking at the hoosiers season stats, and it seems strange that Moore and Forrester cannot get more floor time.  Now I understand that stats aren't everything, but when they have played their very limited minutes, they have produced.

Moore has played a total of 56 minutes this year. Basically two games, if he was playing starter minutes.  In that time he has 17 points on 63% shooting, 23 rebounds, 3 blocks and 4 assists.

Forrester has played a total of 30 minutes, about one game's worth. He has scored 23 points on 67% shooting, 9 rebounds, and 3 blocks.

I know alot of this was in scrub time, but they can't provide any minutes when the regulars are struggling or need a rest?

Now last year I thought McRoberts play helped the team and I thought he deserved most if not all of his minutes.  This year he hasn't passed the eye test for me and so I looked at his stats.

McRoberts has played a total of 275 minutes. He has scored 15 points on 32% shooting, 43 rebounds and 12 steals.  I know that he is not asked to score alot, but both Forrester and Moore have outscored him in very limited minutes.  Moore and Forrester have shot poorly from the line in 10 and 7 attempts, but McRoberts has not even had a FT attempt in 275 minutes.  He has put zero pressure on opposing defenses.  The best thing that can be said about McRoberts offense right now is that he doesn't turn it over much with just 7 TO.  That could be product of not trying to make anything happen on offense.

I am really just perplexed. When IU was getting pounded on the boards in the second half against Maryland, I thought that was an opportunity for these two because they had looked good at rebounding in their time on the floor.

Well said, I just have a feeling this is going to change soon (I hope).  I really think forrester can be something special, and am confident moore can provide us more than a couple current starters have, but who knows.

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2 hours ago, The Daily Hoosier said:

When Archie has been asked about getting him more minutes, or anyone for that matter, the response is pretty much a vanilla "yeah we need to find a way" kind of thing.  The fact that it for the most part doesn't happen is telling.  

Based on what I have seen, I think those minutes are coming down to Moore and Fitzner, and Archie isn't thrilled about either.  While he is substantially improved, I think Moore hurts you more than he helps you in every regard except rim protection.  He can be a decent rebounder too but he gets pushed around.  Admittedly, Fitzner hasn't been better.

I think Archie is hoping that somehow, some way Fitzner finds his early season touch because he is so desperate for perimeter shooting.  He is basically placing a higher value on Fitzner's shooting than Moore's shot blocking, which I get.  But it is really pick your poison right now.

Thanks for your evaluation. Guess I’d like to hear what it is that Fitz brings in his eyes that Moore can not. Moore is better rebounder, shot blocker, and defender. He also runs the floor much better than Fitz and honestly I would venture to say has a better chance to score on put backs etc. Don’t get me wrong I’d rather have a healthy Davis and I’m sure Archie would too but Fitz is just too slow of foot to rebound or defend and has given us nothing on offense. Doesn’t even set good screens but I suppose you are right he is hoping to catch lightening in a bottle on his shot. Still like to hear Archie held to the fire about his rotations. I mean he sacrifices offense for defense in playing Mcrob over Damezi but yet he does the opposite with Fitz. Who knows...if Race gets healthy maybe we see no reason for either Moore or FitZ. That would be nice.

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2 hours ago, BobSaccamanno said:

I think IU will win games again, but someone has to lead with mental toughness.

I think Fitzner will contribute at some point.  He's not this bad, at least shooting.  He hit a nice short range shot the other day.  I really believe he may get over the hump soon.  

Damezi did not hit but I thought when Damezi and Fitz were out there together, the floor actually had spacing.  I hope Archie gives that a hard look.  Not necessarily a starting lineup but how about this group: Fitzner, Morgan, Anderson, Langford, Phinisee.  Swap in Durham for Anderson.  I'd like to see that crew play extended minutes.  You'd get the floor stretched.  Moore could come in some for Fitz.  

I’m alright with one or the other but stretches of minutes with Damezi and Fitz together would kill our defense and likely only put pressure on Romeo and Morgan and get them in foul trouble. Right now our best 5 is Phinesee, Durham, Romeo, Smith and Morgan but I have no problem swapping Smith for Moore for stretches or Damezi for Al and moving Romeo to the 2.

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On 1/28/2019 at 6:45 PM, dgambill said:

Thanks for your evaluation. Guess I’d like to hear what it is that Fitz brings in his eyes that Moore can not. Moore is better rebounder, shot blocker, and defender. He also runs the floor much better than Fitz and honestly I would venture to say has a better chance to score on put backs etc. Don’t get me wrong I’d rather have a healthy Davis and I’m sure Archie would too but Fitz is just too slow of foot to rebound or defend and has given us nothing on offense. Doesn’t even set good screens but I suppose you are right he is hoping to catch lightening in a bottle on his shot. Still like to hear Archie held to the fire about his rotations. I mean he sacrifices offense for defense in playing Mcrob over Damezi but yet he does the opposite with Fitz. Who knows...if Race gets healthy maybe we see no reason for either Moore or FitZ. That would be nice.

Maybe he wants Moore to transfer.

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3 hours ago, HoosierJax said:

Jake's not laughing now,i thought he played well last night...Cliff must have kicked really hard.

Jake, for the most part is in the right spot.  He is also willing to body up.  Cliff gets credit for a few blocks here and there - and the reality is some of those happened with him being out of position.

Jake has a big upside and brings a swagger out there.  

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Did Jake foul oit in 8 minutes?!

Although that is really bad on the surface, it does show he was at least competing and active. He didnt fo in with a mentality to shy away.

He needs to improve a lot. But he is athletic and competitive. There is some upside there.

I cam also see why Archie has been hesitant to this point.

It is a fine line. 

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6 minutes ago, bluegrassIU said:

Did Jake foul oit in 8 minutes?!

Although that is really bad on the surface, it does show he was at least competing and active. He didnt fo in with a mentality to shy away.

He needs to improve a lot. But he is athletic and competitive. There is some upside there.

I cam also see why Archie has been hesitant to this point.

It is a fine line. 

In think Jake showed a lot of promise... I felt some of his fouls (including the last one) were because he was too "excited" about a potentially big play. With more experience I think he will become really good. He is not scared!

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