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Drroogh

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15 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

Or, they are people who have been trying to hang on but after missing the tournament now 7 times out of the past 11 years and when faced with a team that clearly just does not seem to care, they probably figured that they can have an extra 4 hours or so a week to spend their time doing something else.

 

I really hate the whole, "well they are not really fans unless they suffer..." argument.  That is stupid.  IU basketball is something I am a fan of but it is a form of entertainment.  When it ceases to be entertaining, I owe no duty to give my time.

Well said  even if we lose it should be enjoyable to watch. This does not bring joy. It brings a non drinker to want to climb inside a bottle

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4 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

Exactly.  CTC 1st year I watched every second even though I expected us to lose. We were outmatched but at least we played hard.  Can anyone with a straight face tell me Rutgers is more talented than we are? With this teams body language I am not so sure we CAN win another game 

Agreed that first team with Crean was my senior year and last with student tickets but didn’t miss a game because you knew those guys were giving their all. Unfortunately I think your right about not winning again this season especially since we seem to be just as bad at home. At least in years past we could always count on home games being very winnable against anyone. 

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10 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

Or, they are people who have been trying to hang on but after missing the tournament now 7 times out of the past 11 years and when faced with a team that clearly just does not seem to care, they probably figured that they can have an extra 4 hours or so a week to spend their time doing something else.

 

I really hate the whole, "well they are not really fans unless they suffer..." argument.  That is stupid.  IU basketball is something I am a fan of but it is a form of entertainment.  When it ceases to be entertaining, I owe no duty to give my time.

I am not just talking about not watching the game but totally just not pay attention to anything IU.  To me if you can't stay through the hard times I don't want to see these people coming back when we are winning big like they have been fans the whole journey.

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Just now, IU Scott said:

I am not just talking about not watching the game but totally just not pay attention to anything IU.  To me if you can't stay through the hard times I don't want to see these people coming back when we are winning big like they have been fans the whole journey.

I want them back.  The difference between programs that are so-so on fan support and a program like we used to be is that there are actual fair weather fans to come back.  It is much easier to build excitement off of "hope" in those instances than it is for say the IU football team where all that is left is diehards.

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17 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

I want them back.  The difference between programs that are so-so on fan support and a program like we used to be is that there are actual fair weather fans to come back.  It is much easier to build excitement off of "hope" in those instances than it is for say the IU football team where all that is left is diehards.

Lets just say everyone thought like this and stop going to the games and the atmosphere in AH goes way down, don't you think that could hurt in recruiting.  Just like when football recruits come in and see the stadium half empty don't you think that has an impact on that recruit.

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Hello Hoosier Nation! Longtime lurker. Being on the east coast, this site has been a way to stay connected to the fan base and keep a pulse on the program. In fact, every game, I refresh the thread to follow along with comments of the game, as if I'm watching it with friends (sounds kind of sad...right?). Anyway, like most, I have been thinking about the program a lot. I think we are seeing a very unfortunate, somewhat combustible situation happening with the program and fan base. On one hand, we have what I believe to be a good, young coach, who does need several years to create a culture, recruit for his system, and prove that he can build a winning team. Let's make no mistake, this is a rebuild (as much as I hate to say it - even with Romeo and Morgan).

On the other hand, we have a fan base that I believe cannot stomach another rebuild. I might not have been a fan as long as many of you (I went to IU from 2002-2006), but to me, I feel like the majority of my time being a Hoosier fan has felt like a rebuild (or at least some version of it). I get the frustrations from many. So we have a coach that needs time and a fan base that needs to win now (yikes). And I also think that there is a lot of resentment being felt. IU fans are die hard, loyal, and knowledgeable. I remember Crean's first few years, Assembly Hall was rocking even though we were trotting out a mediocre team. There are many stories of fans never missing a game, regardless of how much effort it takes or whatever they have going on in their lives. And to see the program constantly mired in struggle, inconsistency, "next year," as other programs (with far less passion and support) rise, if incredibly demoralizing. So in a way, maybe the fans feel a bit taken for granted or taken advantage of (not that we are owed anything I suppose). I don't know where to place blame, not do I think I am qualified to do so. But I think the poor management of the proud program has been to some degree negligent.

What all that said, I will still watch every game and hope that Archie can prove many wrong and get this thing done and put IU back on the map where it belongs. Being a pre-2004 Red Sox fan, I know how sweet the taste of victory is when you've gone through the heartbreak.

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3 minutes ago, dcHoosier said:

Hello Hoosier Nation! Longtime lurker. Being on the east coast, this site has been a way to stay connected to the fan base and keep a pulse on the program. In fact, every game, I refresh the thread to follow along with comments of the game, as if I'm watching it with friends (sounds kind of sad...right?). Anyway, like most, I have been thinking about the program a lot. I think we are seeing a very unfortunate, somewhat combustible situation happening with the program and fan base. On one hand, we have what I believe to be a good, young coach, who does need several years to create a culture, recruit for his system, and prove that he can build a winning team. Let's make no mistake, this is a rebuild (as much as I hate to say it - even with Romeo and Morgan).

On the other hand, we have a fan base that I believe cannot stomach another rebuild. I might not have been a fan as long as many of you (I went to IU from 2002-2006), but to me, I feel like the majority of my time being a Hoosier fan has felt like a rebuild (or at least some version of it). I get the frustrations from many. So we have a coach that needs time and a fan base that needs to win now (yikes). And I also think that there is a lot of resentment being felt. IU fans are die hard, loyal, and knowledgeable. I remember Crean's first few years, Assembly Hall was rocking even though we were trotting out a mediocre team. There are many stories of fans never missing a game, regardless of how much effort it takes or whatever they have going on in their lives. And to see the program constantly mired in struggle, inconsistency, "next year," as other programs (with far less passion and support) rise, if incredibly demoralizing. So in a way, maybe the fans feel a bit taken for granted or taken advantage of (not that we are owed anything I suppose). I don't know where to place blame, not do I think I am qualified to do so. But I think the poor management of the proud program has been to some degree negligent.

What all that said, I will still watch every game and hope that Archie can prove many wrong and get this thing done and put IU back on the map where it belongs. Being a pre-2004 Red Sox fan, I know how sweet the taste of victory is when you've gone through the heartbreak.

Welcome to the board.  Solid first post.  Hope to see you be a regular poster in the future.  

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There is just no basketball talent on this team outside of Romeo, Juwan, Rob and Al. Juwan is playing out of position, which is really hard to do for 30+ games. And while Rob and Al have some talent...they aren't starters on the top half of the Big Ten...neither is Devonte Green. So when 3 of your 5 best players wouldn't start on half the teams in the league (minimum), and one of the remaining 2 has the size of a SF and is playing the 5...this is what you get.

Where does the fault lie? Archie owns a lot of it. He brought in this class. He brought in Fitzner. He's responsible for player development and the only returner that has improved is Al Durham. He's responsible for execution. 17-0 and 22-0 runs in BACK TO BACK games is ON ARCHIE! There's absolutely no other way to slice it.

Crean owns some too. Al Durham...ranked 200+ I think in high school...is the best player of that class, and it isn't close. Clifton Moore is the 2nd best player in that class. Then, way down the list is Justin...who, for whatever reason, gets 30 minutes a game.

Injuries own some too. BUT...injuries are a cop out for a 7 game losing streak. We went 12-2 with injuries. We started the conference 3-0 with injuries. Injuries don't cause 17-0 runs to start games. Nor 22-0 runs to Rutgers.

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4 minutes ago, dcHoosier said:

Hello Hoosier Nation! Longtime lurker. Being on the east coast, this site has been a way to stay connected to the fan base and keep a pulse on the program. In fact, every game, I refresh the thread to follow along with comments of the game, as if I'm watching it with friends (sounds kind of sad...right?). Anyway, like most, I have been thinking about the program a lot. I think we are seeing a very unfortunate, somewhat combustible situation happening with the program and fan base. On one hand, we have what I believe to be a good, young coach, who does need several years to create a culture, recruit for his system, and prove that he can build a winning team. Let's make no mistake, this is a rebuild (as much as I hate to say it - even with Romeo and Morgan).

On the other hand, we have a fan base that I believe cannot stomach another rebuild. I might not have been a fan as long as many of you (I went to IU from 2002-2006), but to me, I feel like the majority of my time being a Hoosier fan has felt like a rebuild (or at least some version of it). I get the frustrations from many. So we have a coach that needs time and a fan base that needs to win now (yikes). And I also think that there is a lot of resentment being felt. IU fans are die hard, loyal, and knowledgeable. I remember Crean's first few years, Assembly Hall was rocking even though we were trotting out a mediocre team. There are many stories of fans never missing a game, regardless of how much effort it takes or whatever they have going on in their lives. And to see the program constantly mired in struggle, inconsistency, "next year," as other programs (with far less passion and support) rise, if incredibly demoralizing. So in a way, maybe the fans feel a bit taken for granted or taken advantage of (not that we are owed anything I suppose). I don't know where to place blame, not do I think I am qualified to do so. But I think the poor management of the proud program has been to some degree negligent.

What all that said, I will still watch every game and hope that Archie can prove many wrong and get this thing done and put IU back on the map where it belongs. Being a pre-2004 Red Sox fan, I know how sweet the taste of victory is when you've gone through the heartbreak.

Nicely said.
 

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1 hour ago, Billingsley99 said:

Pulled into drive way up 29-19. Ran into the house and from 730 to 815 I did not see 1 point scored for IU. I know half time was in there but at 35 -29. I called it a night

My son refuses to let me listen on the radio when he is in the car.  It all goes back to the 2013 season when we were #1.  He was 8 that year and just getting into IU basketball  Well, we were somewhere the night of the Illinois game and happened to climb into the car with less than a minute left to head home.  Naturally, that was the game where we decided not to guard Tyler Griffey with 0.9 seconds on the clock.  He blames it on me because he wanted to wait and watch the game when we got home.  I guess in his mind I ruined what surely would have been a different outcome by not waiting.   

Every time, and I mean every time, we get in the car together now and IU is playing, he says"Don't you turn on that radio.  Remember the Illinois game".   

Then again, it's only been 6 years.  

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CAUTION: Another lengthy, rambling post follows.  Read at your own risk:

IMO, we have some fans that expected the turnaround (yes, it IS a rebuild) to be immediate.  Some fans, probably most of us, expected last season to be poor but to see improvement this year (although not a threat to win a national title or perhaps even a B10 title).  We started off the season pretty well, and it gave us the feeling we were making strides.  Now, we've fallen off the cliff and it's like a punch in the gut.  I think we desperately want to see that spark or seed of future greatness, but there isn't one right now.  We're probably better than what we've played over the past 3 weeks and were not as good as our pre-B10 record.  Then again, you are what your record says you are.

We have two gaping holes on our roster that most everyone recognizes (lack of shooting and size).  I think two things have had a big factor on the disappointment: 1) multiple significant injuries, and 2) Romeo not being the huge impact player we expected (he's very good for a freshman, but not a all-big10 caliber player at this point).  No one is at fault for these two situations.  A third factor, which falls on both the players and coaches, is the apparent soft, lazy play and failure of the players to improve.  Usually, when things are at such a low point (albeit this feels like the most helpless and futile period I can remember) we pin our hopes on expected player development over the summer and incoming recruits.  Honestly, until I see players show improvement during the season, I'm not relying on major leaps over the summer and while we have two good recruits (hopefully a third, or even fourth) I don't see them being an immediate fix to our major weaknesses (particularly as freshmen).  Losing Morgan and probably Romeo just magnifies our issues. (The only, albeit major reason, Romeo should go is for the money - IMO he's going to be extremely overmatched in the NBA with his current game.  As a lottery pick, there will be immense fan pressure from the team who selects him to produce and frankly I don't see him flourishing for a while in the NBA).

There are some things to be optimistic about:

1. Archie knows the game and how to coach.  He will also be here for the length of his contract unless he does something like cheat or has a scandal.  I certainly hope he knows what needs to be done going forward - be it changing his game plan or adjusting the roster or staff makeup.

2. Al Durham is probably showing the most improvement in his game.  At this point, he's definitely not one of our weaknesses. 

3. Rob P. and J. Hunter have very good upside going forward.  I think we do have to remember that Jerome will essentially be a freshman next season and we should temper our expectations for him.

4. TJD will bring some size to the program.  Again, he'll be a freshman that needs to improve his strength, so expectations should be tempered.

5. Several other players have a huge opportunity to improve and make their mark.  Somebody will make the jump and be a contributor next season (right?, the law of averages says somebody will develop).

Perhaps it's too simplistic, but I think this team really yearns for a special player - one that has basketball IQ, basketball skill, and above all leadership and attitude.

 

TL:DR  We're at what I believe is an all time low.  There will be no quick turnaround to greatness, but all is not lost.

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4 minutes ago, Zuckerkorn said:

CAUTION: Another lengthy, rambling post follows.  Read at your own risk:

IMO, we have some fans that expected the turnaround (yes, it IS a rebuild) to be immediate.  Some fans, probably most of us, expected last season to be poor but to see improvement this year (although not a threat to win a national title or perhaps even a B10 title).  We started off the season pretty well, and it gave us the feeling we were making strides.  Now, we've fallen off the cliff and it's like a punch in the gut.  I think we desperately want to see that spark or seed of future greatness, but there isn't one right now.  We're probably better than what we've played over the past 3 weeks and were not as good as our pre-B10 record.  Then again, you are what your record says you are.

We have two gaping holes on our roster that most everyone recognizes (lack of shooting and size).  I think two things have had a big factor on the disappointment: 1) multiple significant injuries, and 2) Romeo not being the huge impact player we expected (he's very good for a freshman, but not a all-big10 caliber player at this point).  No one is at fault for these two situations.  A third factor, which falls on both the players and coaches, is the apparent soft, lazy play and failure of the players to improve.  Usually, when things are at such a low point (albeit this feels like the most helpless and futile period I can remember) we pin our hopes on expected player development over the summer and incoming recruits.  Honestly, until I see players show improvement during the season, I'm not relying on major leaps over the summer and while we have two good recruits (hopefully a third, or even fourth) I don't see them being an immediate fix to our major weaknesses (particularly as freshmen).  Losing Morgan and probably Romeo just magnifies our issues. (The only, albeit major reason, Romeo should go is for the money - IMO he's going to be extremely overmatched in the NBA with his current game.  As a lottery pick, there will be immense fan pressure from the team who selects him to produce and frankly I don't see him flourishing for a while in the NBA).

There are some things to be optimistic about:

1. Archie knows the game and how to coach.  He will also be here for the length of his contract unless he does something like cheat or has a scandal.  I certainly hope he knows what needs to be done going forward - be it changing his game plan or adjusting the roster or staff makeup.

2. Al Durham is probably showing the most improvement in his game.  At this point, he's definitely not one of our weaknesses. 

3. Rob P. and J. Hunter have very good upside going forward.  I think we do have to remember that Jerome will essentially be a freshman next season and we should temper our expectations for him.

4. TJD will bring some size to the program.  Again, he'll be a freshman that needs to improve his strength, so expectations should be tempered.

5. Several other players have a huge opportunity to improve and make their mark.  Somebody will make the jump and be a contributor next season (right?, the law of averages says somebody will develop).

Perhaps it's too simplistic, but I think this team really yearns for a special player - one that has basketball IQ, basketball skill, and above all leadership and attitude.

 

TL:DR  We're at what I believe is an all time low.  There will be no quick turnaround to greatness, but all is not lost.

Leadership on the court is going to be a huge factor in determining whether we see any improvement next year.  And, for that< i'm holding out hope that Al takes it upon himself to be that guy.  Granted, i'm only seeing what I can see during a game, but he seems to have some of the attributes that it takes to be an effective on the court leader.

So, Al, if you should happen to be reading this, I believe in you.  The opportunity to make this YOUR team next season is out there.  It doesn't mean that you should be expected to be our leading scorer, rebounder, or assist guy.  Just be that guy that leaves it all out on the court, 40 minutes a game, every game, and who is not afraid to get in someone else's grill when they aren't giving max effort.  

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36 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

My son refuses to let me listen on the radio when he is in the car.  It all goes back to the 2013 season when we were #1.  He was 8 that year and just getting into IU basketball  Well, we were somewhere the night of the Illinois game and happened to climb into the car with less than a minute left to head home.  Naturally, that was the game where we decided not to guard Tyler Griffey with 0.9 seconds on the clock.  He blames it on me because he wanted to wait and watch the game when we got home.  I guess in his mind I ruined what surely would have been a different outcome by not waiting.   

Every time, and I mean every time, we get in the car together now and IU is playing, he says"Don't you turn on that radio.  Remember the Illinois game".   

Then again, it's only been 6 years.  

Its all on you Dad!!! Scarred for life.

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All I ask going forward is that Mcroberts and Fitzner take a seat at the end of the bench. Someone on twitter posted a tweet that had the teams efficiency for offense and defense when he is on and off the court. Not surprising Indiana is worse on offense when he is out there but Indiana is actually worse on defense we he is out there to... Fitzner hasn’t hit a 3 since December. Let’s play Moore, Forrester, and Anderson more and build for the future.  I thought Damezi took a step forward last night and played a decent game. Let him build off that please!

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2 hours ago, IU Scott said:

Lets just say everyone thought like this and stop going to the games and the atmosphere in AH goes way down, don't you think that could hurt in recruiting.  Just like when football recruits come in and see the stadium half empty don't you think that has an impact on that recruit.

Well if IU would actually win games then they wouldn't have to worry about it. Nobody wants to go out with snow on the ground and temperatures below freezing to watch an IU team score 46 points at home. Their performance right now is hurting recruiting at least as much as the fan support, maybe more.

There isn't enough alcohol in the world to drink myself through the awful performances we've seen over the past 7 games.

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17 minutes ago, The Daily Hoosier said:

What would you change, keeping in mind both ends of the floor and the entire game, not just the outcome?

I'd change the overall grade from a C- to a D or even D-.  Granted the stats for Juwan an Romeo look ok at the end of the day.  However, the stats do not take into consideration a lot of other things.  Taking illadvised shots, or not  driving the lane or working under the bucket, which is what those two guys do best.  And the absolutely poor spacing by most everyone on the team, which led to poor passing and way too many turnovers. 

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I thought Damezi brought some much needed scrappiness to the floor last night.  I think we're going to love this kid in a year or two.  The game's a little too fast for him right now, but love the fight he showed for the loose balls.  Another thing I've loved about him lately - when he fouls, he fouls HARD.  If I remember correctly, he about took Haarms' head off with a foul in the Purdue game and it brought a smile to my face.  I don't want him to injure anybody, but love when he shows he's not going to be bullied.

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