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Offical IUMB venting/complaint Thread


Indykev

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18 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

 I think you are just looking at the last 4 or 5 weeks and you are looking to much with emotion instead of your head.  Yes the last few weeks has been horrible and no one is happy with it but I still feel like when Archie gets more of his type of players in we will see all game splayed with that type of effort.  To me we need to clean some house after the year and get players in here who wants to play for IU and go from there.  if we are still having these problems 2 years form now then yes it will be time to look at a change but it is to early to do now.

Not looking for a change in leadership at all.Too early to judge.  I am one of the guys that is not looking at the last 4 or 5 weeks I am looking at the entire season and I will say it has been a huge disappointment.  I was at Hoosier Hysteria for and hour and a half and could easily pick up the issue with RL and JS and I said so here. If i can as a fan in an hour what the heck has the staff been doing for 8 months about it. Of course at some point it was going to implode.  lets take a close look:

Marquette great game  amazing D offense clicking looked like world beaters. This is out outlier for sure.  Big win largest margin of victory over teams inside of the top 300

1 point loss at Arkansas on the outside not bad we were a DD tip in from winning. When I watch games I take notes and I made a note we got lucky their coach sucks, still we got out coached today.  Arkansas blew a 10 point lead by taking shots on 5 straight possessions with out Gafford touching the ball (HE OWNED US)  and their coach said nothing. He scored or assisted on a score every time he touched the ball  in the last 8 minutes of the game yet his coached refused to get him the ball and we made ZERO adjustments to take him away we were very lucky to be in that game. 

We survived 2 very poor team at Home that began raising the red flags. All of us were very cautious at that point. Take a minute to think back!!

Duke obvious

Barely beat a bottom feeder NW at home

Beat a bottom feeder Penn State on road big win at time not so big today. 

Louisville. Great atmosphere big win. Played like we are capable on the floor, hustle plays, made a lot of right calls down the stretch. I thought CAM out coached Mack.

Beat Butler a big game for JM and huge shot from RP but once again based on the level of coaching on the other side this one was expected.

A cupcake and then at the time a terrible Illinois team that we just could not blow out. I felt they out played us though.

To summarize we won some close games in which I thought would lead to great things, helping us in the course of the Big Ten but that has not happened. Lately during this stretch I have taken a closer look to see what is going on. In all honesty not much has changed unfortunately. That is a big problem.  Why so much concern? We won some big games against teams that were looking at us early in the year. Most coaches approach early season games to focus on THEIR TEAM not so much on what the other team is doing. Even those cupcakes stayed in their main defense and offensive strategies because they expected to lose but this was a chance to get better and to work on them.

Enter  the Big Ten everyone of those staffs have now seen all of our games, they have seen every offensive and defensive possession and have broken them down. by the time Conference season starts there are no secrets. Every single coach that we have played have game planned to take away RL and to take it at JM to get him in foul trouble. They all know that we can't shoot the ball. They are making us try and do things that we are not capable of and we have not adjusted. Those mistakes that we made back against UC Davis are still being made against Purdue and that is inexcusable. We have NOT figured out how to better our 3pt defense although Purdue's numbers will help. We for the most part last night played very well on the 3pt shot. 

Of those 12 early wins there were lots to be concerned with and we were just happy to get wins. I do not think that we addressed those flaws and now that we face good coaches that know how to scout and game plan our margin for error is very small.  I try to be optimistic as much as I can, but the future does not look bright at this point and that is taking the entire season into consideration. 

AS far as getting his players what are his type of player? Do we have the same type of players here that made CAM successful at DAyton? Is he just trying to get the best in state talent because CTC didn't? Is he recruiting for purpose to fill areas of need?  All of those things will be answered with time, but as far as forgetting how to coach over the last 6 weeks, I am not so sure the level of coaching was as high as we think it was to begin with. 

Does this mean he is not the right guy,no. Will I continue to support him and the program of course. Was he the best available option at the time probably and that is what is concerning IMO. 

 

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1 hour ago, IU Scott said:

They were not soft last night

Davis, Romeo (on d), Al, McBob and Juwan (on d) i agree were not soft.   Last night was the most fight i had seen out of this team in a long time, but still a lot of fluff on the floor.  But i ask this, was last night the norm or the exception???

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3 minutes ago, 3Ballin said:

Davis, Romeo (on d), Al, McBob and Juwan (on d) i agree were not soft.   Last night was the most fight i had seen out of this team in a long time, but still a lot of fluff on the floor.  But i ask this, was last night the norm or the exception???

I thought so as well. Was very impressed with RL and even RP just some tough foul calls on him

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48 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

Not looking for a change in leadership at all.Too early to judge.  I am one of the guys that is not looking at the last 4 or 5 weeks I am looking at the entire season and I will say it has been a huge disappointment.  I was at Hoosier Hysteria for and hour and a half and could easily pick up the issue with RL and JS and I said so here. If i can as a fan in an hour what the heck has the staff been doing for 8 months about it. Of course at some point it was going to implode.  lets take a close look:

Marquette great game  amazing D offense clicking looked like world beaters. This is out outlier for sure.  Big win largest margin of victory over teams inside of the top 300

1 point loss at Arkansas on the outside not bad we were a DD tip in from winning. When I watch games I take notes and I made a note we got lucky their coach sucks, still we got out coached today.  Arkansas blew a 10 point lead by taking shots on 5 straight possessions with out Gafford touching the ball (HE OWNED US)  and their coach said nothing. He scored or assisted on a score every time he touched the ball  in the last 8 minutes of the game yet his coached refused to get him the ball and we made ZERO adjustments to take him away we were very lucky to be in that game. 

We survived 2 very poor team at Home that began raising the red flags. All of us were very cautious at that point. Take a minute to think back!!

Duke obvious

Barely beat a bottom feeder NW at home

Beat a bottom feeder Penn State on road big win at time not so big today. 

Louisville. Great atmosphere big win. Played like we are capable on the floor, hustle plays, made a lot of right calls down the stretch. I thought CAM out coached Mack.

Beat Butler a big game for JM and huge shot from RP but once again based on the level of coaching on the other side this one was expected.

A cupcake and then at the time a terrible Illinois team that we just could not blow out. I felt they out played us though.

To summarize we won some close games in which I thought would lead to great things, helping us in the course of the Big Ten but that has not happened. Lately during this stretch I have taken a closer look to see what is going on. In all honesty not much has changed unfortunately. That is a big problem.  Why so much concern? We won some big games against teams that were looking at us early in the year. Most coaches approach early season games to focus on THEIR TEAM not so much on what the other team is doing. Even those cupcakes stayed in their main defense and offensive strategies because they expected to lose but this was a chance to get better and to work on them.

Enter  the Big Ten everyone of those staffs have now seen all of our games, they have seen every offensive and defensive possession and have broken them down. by the time Conference season starts there are no secrets. Every single coach that we have played have game planned to take away RL and to take it at JM to get him in foul trouble. They all know that we can't shoot the ball. They are making us try and do things that we are not capable of and we have not adjusted. Those mistakes that we made back against UC Davis are still being made against Purdue and that is inexcusable. We have NOT figured out how to better our 3pt defense although Purdue's numbers will help. We for the most part last night played very well on the 3pt shot. 

Of those 12 early wins there were lots to be concerned with and we were just happy to get wins. I do not think that we addressed those flaws and now that we face good coaches that know how to scout and game plan our margin for error is very small.  I try to be optimistic as much as I can, but the future does not look bright at this point and that is taking the entire season into consideration. 

AS far as getting his players what are his type of player? Do we have the same type of players here that made CAM successful at DAyton? Is he just trying to get the best in state talent because CTC didn't? Is he recruiting for purpose to fill areas of need?  All of those things will be answered with time, but as far as forgetting how to coach over the last 6 weeks, I am not so sure the level of coaching was as high as we think it was to begin with. 

Does this mean he is not the right guy,no. Will I continue to support him and the program of course. Was he the best available option at the time probably and that is what is concerning IMO. 

 

Well stated B99.

I appreciate your comments as you come from a coaching perspective.  I am merely a 5 decade fan.  Never had the ability to play the game.  

I still back CAM and will until he has had a chance to bring in players for his system  over the next 2yrs.  Having said that, I still have questions.  

1.  Is CAM just the polar opposite of CTC.  All D and no O vs. All O and no D.  If the former, I don't; thing that bodes well for the future.  WE HAVE TO SCORE TO WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS.

2.  I grew up with CBK.  I can't fathom him accepting such poor execution without consequence.  Lack o ball movement, screening, effort, and determination would be EXPECTED.

3.  My wife and I were at the Mich game.  During the initial run by Mich she turned to me and said "this is boring to watch.  Shouldn't they be doing something?"  That simple question by a casual observer summarized the season for me.  I still mostly blame the players but have some reservation about CAM currently.

I have taken solace in the future for 2 reasons: 

1.  When CAM was hired CBK stated that IU had made a fine selection IF the fans would give him time.  As a coach, I don't think anyone alive today has more BB knowledge than CBK.  I don't think he was peddling sunshine. 

2.  Colin Hartman was on a Podcast recently and stated the CAM IS a great coach and that the players were at fault for lack of "heart."  He knows more about CAM and the players than anyone.  Again I'll trust his opinion.  

Unfortunately, only time will give us an answer and its the thing we have the toughest time giving at this point!

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3 minutes ago, FWIUFan said:

Well stated B99.

I appreciate your comments as you come from a coaching perspective.  I am merely a 5 decade fan.  Never had the ability to play the game.  

I still back CAM and will until he has had a chance to bring in players for his system  over the next 2yrs.  Having said that, I still have questions.  

1.  Is CAM just the polar opposite of CTC.  All D and no O vs. All O and no D.  If the former, I don't; thing that bodes well for the future.  WE HAVE TO SCORE TO WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS.

2.  I grew up with CBK.  I can't fathom him accepting such poor execution without consequence.  Lack o ball movement, screening, effort, and determination would be EXPECTED.

3.  My wife and I were at the Mich game.  During the initial run by Mich she turned to me and said "this is boring to watch.  Shouldn't they be doing something?"  That simple question by a casual observer summarized the season for me.  I still mostly blame the players but have some reservation about CAM currently.

I have taken solace in the future for 2 reasons: 

1.  When CAM was hired CBK stated that IU had made a fine selection IF the fans would give him time.  As a coach, I don't think anyone alive today has more BB knowledge than CBK.  I don't think he was peddling sunshine. 

2.  Colin Hartman was on a Podcast recently and stated the CAM IS a great coach and that the players were at fault for lack of "heart."  He knows more about CAM and the players than anyone.  Again I'll trust his opinion.  

Unfortunately, only time will give us an answer and its the thing we have the toughest time giving at this point!

I agree. My real concern is one that I have witnessed firsthand at the high school level and hope its not the case.  A very good friend of mine was a terrific coach and his small school team was so hard to beat. They were scrappy, great shooters, did all the little things so well. Played more zone than man and on a regular basis beat the larger schools. So much so that when a big school came calling he and I both applied and he got the job. Then it all changed. Those things that made his teams so hard to beat, he stopped doing. He gave in to the idea that at a big school you had to do things differently. It did not translate well.  Do what you do and do it well. I want all the best in state talent, and I have said that you can do great things if you get the best from Indiana. Are those necessarily the guys that CAM needs. IDK.  If we don't have shooters if makes no difference who the coach is we cannot win in this league. We played as good as a defensive game as you  can play and our guys fought hard and the fans were into the game. We don't have to score 100 to get support 49 would have been plenty!! I just don't see the shooters coming and I don't know why we don't run a set when we need a bucket.  Even Cal and Coach K run sets to get the guy they want taking the shot, or one of the options. I am not a run a ton of sets kind of guy but when you need a score you need something specific with several options. 

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23 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

 I just don't see the shooters coming and I don't know why we don't run a set when we need a bucket.  Even Cal and Coach K run sets to get the guy they want taking the shot, or one of the options. I am not a run a ton of sets kind of guy but when you need a score you need something specific with several options. 

Can you explain what you mean about not running a set? Dakich said the same last night...But from where I am sitting we run a set nearly every time down the floor...We have three or four basic actions that we are in for pretty much the whole game...

Double High Post, Back Screen into Ball Screen, Ball Hand off into Ball Screen, and the Double Screen action we run as a continuity...

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2 minutes ago, mchenry34 said:

Can you explain what you mean about not running a set? Dakich said the same last night...But from where I am sitting we run a set nearly every time down the floor...We have three or four basic actions that we are in for pretty much the whole game...

Double High Post, Back Screen into Ball Screen, Ball Hand off into Ball Screen, and the Double Screen action we run as a continuity...

To me that is an offense. Princeton, Dribble Drive, Weave etc.. are offenses and within the offense you will have sets that you dictate the action. All offenses have rules and based on what the defense does you react. The defense continues to sag off and clog. I propose at least run a set play for Romeo. Set a double screen along the baseline give him the opportunity to shoot drive or dish. Or a set that involves a chin screen with him and Juwan just so that you dictate the action. Right now in our offense the defense is dictating what we are able to do. We also have no or little back side action. The weak side defenders don't have to react. An occasional flare screen just to keep honest would create space for drives.

When have a screen to try and force a switch to get a guard on JM on the block. High ball screen does not work if neither of the 2 can shoot the ball.  For 20 years I have run the Princeton Offense got it from Coach Carril and Carmody, the offense has rules but within I have around 200 set plays. WE did not teach all of it but you can even implement on the fly. I want to see some quick hitters, how many shots do we take within the first 15 sec of the shot clock.  We don't look to post Romeo as much as we should.  We run the weave or hi ball screen and as shot clock winds down drive and hope or kick for a 3. We are very predictable and easy to guard.

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Those of you who support Archie or don't....I encourage you to check out the attached article below. It's titled....."YOU'RE NOT A GOOD COACH WHEN........" When our fans voice opinions and mostly negative opinions about Archie, his staff and the team....It creates an overall vibe. That vibe has become toxic and somewhat suffocating. I feel this is where Keion and his family are right now. 

At any rate, I thought of our very bi-partisan fan base when I ran across this article. In the article, there are eleven short paragraphs, each starting with....."YOU'RE NOT A GOOD COACH WHEN........" and then reference several common problems associated with a poorly coached team. I ask you to read each paragraph try to see if Archie's name belongs in ANY of those eleven paragraphs.

   There is no way of knowing everything that goes on behind doors with this team. It is so easy to pass judgement and say that YOU would do it this way or that way, call this play, put that player in......It is endless.

https://www.competitivedge.com/you-are-not-good-coach-when-you

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36 minutes ago, mchenry34 said:

Can you explain what you mean about not running a set? Dakich said the same last night...But from where I am sitting we run a set nearly every time down the floor...We have three or four basic actions that we are in for pretty much the whole game...

Double High Post, Back Screen into Ball Screen, Ball Hand off into Ball Screen, and the Double Screen action we run as a continuity...

I wouldn't listen to much if any of what Dakich says because his opinions change direction with wind. 

On the Minnesota telecast, he harped on IU getting out in transition, and not running sets. The Purdue game, something different. 

Personally, I would like to see us run more, but be able to play a half court game when needed. For those that say that CAM is the polar opposite of Crean, that's not necessarily true. Crean was up tempo all the time. He couldn't play in the half court. I am holding out judgement on CAM until he gets a team made up of most/all his recruits. Hard to get out and run when we haven't had the size and pretty much everyone has to crash the boards. Hard to play half court when you don't have reliable shot makers.

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59 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said:

I wouldn't listen to much if any of what Dakich says because his opinions change direction with wind. 

On the Minnesota telecast, he harped on IU getting out in transition, and not running sets. The Purdue game, something different. 

Personally, I would like to see us run more, but be able to play a half court game when needed. For those that say that CAM is the polar opposite of Crean, that's not necessarily true. Crean was up tempo all the time. He couldn't play in the half court. I am holding out judgement on CAM until he gets a team made up of most/all his recruits. Hard to get out and run when we haven't had the size and pretty much everyone has to crash the boards. Hard to play half court when you don't have reliable shot makers.

Dakich aside.  Because he is no different than any other person that makes a living off of being a "talking head".  He just happens to be an IU grad.

And yes, we need to run more.  Amp up the tempo.  Go more North and South, instead of East and West.

 

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I for one think that CAM needs to dig around in a closet and find some tapes of Indiana Basketball from the 80's or 90's and learn what an offense should look like and I think he should also spend the summer learning what the History of Indiana basketball is all about...From James Horne all the way thur RMK.

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14 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said:

I can't think of any at least not without major injuries.  It's truly unbelievable how terrible we are.  

They showed plenty of collapses on your other site but some doesn't want to listen to logic.   I actually don't understand why you even bother watching the game since it is obvious it makes you miserable.  College basketball is for entertainment only and if you take it to seriously where all you do is go to different boards and complain constantly maybe you need a knew hobby.

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2 minutes ago, Zlinedavid said:

 1995 California Angels

Had a 12.5 game lead in the AL West in August. Went 9-24 at one point, with two separate 9 game losing streaks. Wound up losing a 1 game playoff to the Mariners for the division title. And yes, no major injuries.

Red Sox in 2011. Then they made a rash decision and fired their manager which led to Bobby Valentine. 

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8 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

Red Sox in 2011. Then they made a rash decision and fired their manager which led to Bobby Valentine. 

That's up there too. As is Boston in '78.

And although it's a different situation, being a single event in an individual vs a team sport, one cannot mention historic collapses without mentioning Jean Van De Velde.

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20 minutes ago, JEFFVETTE said:

Does Cleveland getting swept in the finals last year count. They clawed their way there, and then didn't do squat.

I didn't mention series-related collapses, knowing that Nostrodongus would point out that *begin sarcasm* IU's situation is soooooo much worse, because this has happened over nearly HALF A SEASON, not a paltry 4 games. *end sarcasm*

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19 minutes ago, Zlinedavid said:

I didn't mention series-related collapses, knowing that Nostrodongus would point out that *begin sarcasm* IU's situation is soooooo much worse, because this has happened over nearly HALF A SEASON, not a paltry 4 games. *end sarcasm*

Yes. It has to be roughly the last half of a season.

This is historically bad :(

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41 minutes ago, Zlinedavid said:

I didn't mention series-related collapses, knowing that Nostrodongus would point out that *begin sarcasm* IU's situation is soooooo much worse, because this has happened over nearly HALF A SEASON, not a paltry 4 games. *end sarcasm*

"Nostrodongus"?  I am stealing that one I am so laughing.

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