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Iowa Postgame Thread


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5 minutes ago, Artesian_86 said:

Not only is IU painful to watch,  reading this board can be equally disheartening. I am proud to be a part of this board as well as posting my views and opinions, as we all do here. The only thing that is frustrating is reading about all those who continually want Archie fired. I feel that the frustration should be more on the players and their inabilities then with the coaches. This group of players are just not that good. Period! 

Frankly, after the Michigan State win, which was both awesome and refreshing, ....I never thought we were going to beat Iowa. I watched Iowa pummel Michigan and literally have their way with them. Iowa is a load of a team and way better than their record shows. All their pieces are coming together at the right time. In my opinion, they are 1 stud point guard away from being top 5 in the country. As far as that goes, right now, they are the hottest and best team in the BIG TEN!. Their "inside-out" approach is absolutely deadly!  I just hope that on February 22nd, when we go to Iowa, we can return the favor. It will be highly unlikely, but it seems that we play better away then at home....The odds will not be in our favor.

 

We heard the exact same things with Crean and Mike Davis...it was not their fault, they just needed to get their players in.  "Help is on the way...."  If there is a player problem, I expect the guy getting paid $3.5 million dollars to figure it out and find a way to motivate them.  I could spend a third of the money that Indiana has flushed down the toilet paying Crean and Miller the last decade and have gotten similar results.

And let's say it is the players that are a problem and I actually agree that they are part of the issue, have you seen anything other than Green getting suspended for smoking weed that suggests that there are ANY consequences for their behavior?  Miller had treated this team like the NCAA handles cheating investigations.  Romeo and Smith dog it on defense and Moore gets the book thrown at him.  The players are a problem because the coaching staff has allowed them to be an issue.  What do you think the combined salary of our coaching staff is?  Something around $5 million give or take?  We won 16 games last year and are looking at maybe 16 or 17 again this year.  We are basically paying $300,000/win right now.  Is there any other team in the BIG getting a worse return on their investment in coaching?  That goes back to the Crean era as well. 

I get it, being pessimistic sucks.  I really, really want this to turn around.  I don't see anything to give me that hope right now.  We had people picking us as a dark horse NCAA title contender at the beginning of the year...yeah, the roster had some flaws but not to the level of ineptitude that we are seeing.  I am not happy because this stinks.  College basketball used to be my favorite sport and that was directly related to my fondness for this program and the way that IU basketball has been mismanaged is infuriating.  We were one of the gold standards in the sport and we gave it away being "patient" with our coaches and administrators who would always say "well we just need time..."  Well I have given nearly 20 years of time while Myles Brand, Rick Greenspan, Adam Herbert, Fred Glass, Michael McRobbie, Mike Davis, Kelvin Sampson, Tom Crean, and now Archie Miller have turned our program into Northwestern.  And have done it at 3x the cost of Northwestern.  I would not trust anybody running IU to control my finances.  They are spending Ruth's Chris money to get Ponderosa quality.

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21 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

They hit 10-25 3's last night and at least 4 were contested 25 footers as the shot clock was going down.  To me the defense against the 3's were not that bad last night but it was  team hitting tough contested shots.

I'm with you, some of those shots were unreal. Others may be able to address this point better, but its my experience that when you let a good shooter get comfortable, they make more tough shots, and I thought last night, and especially against Nebraska, we let them get comfortable.

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Don't you see this pattern that the fans think the coaching is always the problem and we keep making changes but things stay the same.  Maybe it is not the coaching after all and there are other problems and maybe the fan base should look in a mirror a little bit because we are at fault as well.

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1 minute ago, IU Scott said:

Don't you see this pattern that the fans think the coaching is always the problem and we keep making changes but things stay the same.  Maybe it is not the coaching after all and there are other problems and maybe the fan base should look in a mirror a little bit because we are at fault as well.

How are we at fault Scott?  You post that quite often but maybe you could explain it to me.

Are we at fault because we expect to much?  I mean Kentucky canned Billie Gillespie after 2 years, realizing he was not the guy, and they are doing ok.  North Carolina gave Matt Doherty 3 years.  We were patient with Mike Davis, he got what 6 or 7 years at a job that he never should have gotten in the first place.  We reserved judgment when he was replaced by a known cheater who decimated the program.  We then waited 9 years to prove that Crean is mediocre.  Our contemporaries at the time Knight was fired would never had hired Davis.  They never would have replaced him with a guy under recruiting restrictions for cheating and they would not have given Tom Crean the contract and time we gave him to prove he could do the job.  

And not many programs that have rolled out the absolute dreck that this program has rolled out lately would have the crowd support this team enjoys.  If I temper my expectations anymore, I won't have any standards at all.

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In the past Justin has proved me wrong and shown great stretches of play and being a big factor for us in games. It wasn't this one.

His defense was atrocious and it led to so many points for them. It is unfathomable how we let 2 players like Wieskamp and Bohannon come in and shoot the absolute lights out because we aren't that concerned with getting in their face and guarding the shot as it starts. I thought Juwan really hamstringed us too with a couple of those dumb fouls that ultimately pushed him out of the game way too early. They had nothing for us inside and I thought DeRon and Juwan could have got whatever they wanted for a large portion of that game.

Another extremely disappointing loss fellas. MSU win seems to be a fluke. If we wanted to piece together a turnaround, it had to continue with Iowa. You just wonder if we're ever going to figure it out this season and the bigger problem is it may already be too late.

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18 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I was disappointed in the outcome but I think Archie is right that I wouldn't be too disappointed in the team.  For the most part I think most players played hard and that we played well.  The problem is that we have a couple of lapses through the game and they cost us.  Actually what I am most disappointed in is this fan base and how they just overreact to everything.  Anyone who thinks Archie's job should be in jeopardy is not the kind of fan base I grew up being proud of.

You grew up around a fanbase that went to the tournament almost every year and won 3 National Titles in an 11 year time span and happened to land in a couple more Final Fours to boot.  The fanbase was happy because we were winning.

I caught the tail end of that as well.  Winning tends to hide alot of the warts (like your coach being a tyrant).  There was a point when I was younger where we had something like 16 straight NCAA tournament appearances.  Since Knight was fired how many have we been to.  And you are looking at this fanbase with rose colored glasses, people were getting irritated with the one and done for Knight's last 5 or 6 years too.  Ultimately that is what allowed Brand to fire him.

We have an A.D. that markets to the fanbase that we are "big time".  They pay like we are "big time".  Then they act offended when people actually expect "big time" results.  Frankly, I am not even looking for that, I would be content to just start getting into the tournament on a regular basis anymore.

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I totally get it guys..... We have been burned before. I sure hope that the athletic department has learned from it's past mistakes on allowing coaches to stay around longer they deserve, more less wearing out their welcome...(ie - Crean). Crean should have been shown the door 4 to 5 years earlier. Archie signed a 7 year contract at IU...That's a lot of confidence in one man and his abilities.  I feel that he needs at least 4 years to prove his worth. This will enable him to clean house, and establish a consistent recruiting class which should model Archie's style. After that 4th year, IF things continue to spiral and get worse.....THEN,  we should begin to question Archie's abilities as a coach and IU's inability to find a good one. 

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6 minutes ago, Artesian_86 said:

I totally get it guys..... We have been burned before. I sure hope that the athletic department has learned from it's past mistakes on allowing coaches to stay around longer they deserve, more less wearing out their welcome...(ie - Crean). Crean should have been shown the door 4 to 5 years earlier. Archie signed a 7 year contract at IU...That's a lot of confidence in one man and his abilities.  I feel that he needs at least 4 years to prove his worth. This will enable him to clean house, and establish a consistent recruiting class which should model Archie's style. After that 4th year, IF things continue to spiral and get worse.....THEN,  we should begin to question Archie's abilities as a coach and IU's inability to find a good one. 

I am not saying give Archie 7 years but I feel like he should get at least 4 years to prove himself before talking about the hot seat.  This is coming from a guy who was not in favor of the hire in the first place but he is our coach and I will back him.

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20 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I am not saying give Archie 7 years but I feel like he should get at least 4 years to prove himself before talking about the hot seat.  This is coming from a guy who was not in favor of the hire in the first place but he is our coach and I will back him.

I like playing devils advocate by no means do I feel he is or should be on hot seat. What if we miss tournament next year make it year 4 miss 5. Well you have to give him chance to redeem make it yr 6 miss year 7 get new coach. Somehow we just gave him 7 years. We should not be in a place no matter what that 1 appearance every 3 or 4 years is good enough. IU Basketball has been fools gold for 20 years get our hopes up just to RIP out our collective hearts.

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9 hours ago, FW_Hoosier said:

We shot 49% from the field and 33% from three tonight... Making shots was not the issue.

We outrebounded and shot a higher FG% slightly, yet Iowa hit 10-25 for 40% from 3 including a number of tough ones. I respectfully disagree that it WASN’T the issue.  We were 7-21 from deep including missing a number of good looks. Been going on all year. You think that’s good enough? Numbers were comparable in every category except from deep. 

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3 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I am not saying give Archie 7 years but I feel like he should get at least 4 years to prove himself before talking about the hot seat.  This is coming from a guy who was not in favor of the hire in the first place but he is our coach and I will back him.

Why 4 years?  In year 3 he should basically have "his team" particularly with the way big time college programs work these days.  80+% of the players on his team will have either been exclusively recruited and coached or at least exclusively coached by him.  And what should the expectation be in year 4? Just make the tournament?  So you would be ok with missing the tournament in year 3 and then what in year 4?  You know how hard it is for this administration to fire a guy after he goes to the tournament?  If we miss 3 years in a row and then squeak in year 4 and flame out in round 1 or 2, then you are at a point where you have to extend Miller or fire him because of recruiting.  That is Tom Crean 2.0.  No, that is worse than Tom Crean 2.0 because it is taking the same time to turn around when Crean inarguably started in a deeper hole.

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2 hours ago, IUCrazy2 said:

Exactly.  And at least last year we started out like hot garbage but improved a bit during the year.  This year we started out decently and then after New Years just completely fell off the rails.  We are a bad night of free throw shooting by Michigan State away from being 0-fer 2019.

We fell off the map because we started playing talented teams and mostly on the road after New Years.

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4 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

Why 4 years?  In year 3 he should basically have "his team" particularly with the way big time college programs work these days.  80+% of the players on his team will have either been exclusively recruited and coached or at least exclusively coached by him.  And what should the expectation be in year 4? Just make the tournament?  So you would be ok with missing the tournament in year 3 and then what in year 4?  You know how hard it is for this administration to fire a guy after he goes to the tournament?  If we miss 3 years in a row and then squeak in year 4 and flame out in round 1 or 2, then you are at a point where you have to extend Miller or fire him because of recruiting.  That is Tom Crean 2.0.  No, that is worse than Tom Crean 2.0 because it is taking the same time to turn around when Crean inarguably started in a deeper hole.

4 years is because it gives him one recruiting cycle to have a total roster of his own players.

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This game was won in the first half.  We had terrible turnovers when we would get the lead down to 2 or 3, mostly off of bad/lazy passes, and the soft close outs on 3pt shooters allowed them to hit some 3's in the first half.  All of this coupled with the inability to guard a very good big man, caused us heartburn throughout the night. 

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51 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Don't you see this pattern that the fans think the coaching is always the problem and we keep making changes but things stay the same.  Maybe it is not the coaching after all and there are other problems and maybe the fan base should look in a mirror a little bit because we are at fault as well.

You tell me, how many open 3's did I miss? How many careless passes did I throw? How many times did I need help guarding my man in the post?

I mostly agree with you - we have a flawed roster and people refused to recognize that until it blew up in our faces. I still think we make the tournament and hopefully have a little better mix of guys next year.

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10 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

Why 4 years?  In year 3 he should basically have "his team" particularly with the way big time college programs work these days.  80+% of the players on his team will have either been exclusively recruited and coached or at least exclusively coached by him.  And what should the expectation be in year 4? Just make the tournament?  So you would be ok with missing the tournament in year 3 and then what in year 4?  You know how hard it is for this administration to fire a guy after he goes to the tournament?  If we miss 3 years in a row and then squeak in year 4 and flame out in round 1 or 2, then you are at a point where you have to extend Miller or fire him because of recruiting.  That is Tom Crean 2.0.  No, that is worse than Tom Crean 2.0 because it is taking the same time to turn around when Crean inarguably started in a deeper hole.

Right now we are playing 2 guys that Archie actually recruited. 

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8 minutes ago, kyhoosier29 said:

We outrebounded and shot a higher FG% slightly, yet Iowa hit 10-25 for 40% from 3 including a number of tough ones. I respectfully disagree that it WASN’T the issue.  We were 7-21 from deep including missing a number of good looks. Been going on all year. You think that’s good enough? 

Definitely agree that our inability to make shots has been one of the primary issues over this losing streak, but I don’t think it was the main reason we lost last night... I’d say that turnovers and defensive lapses were what did us in.  

I’d like for us to be a better three point shooting team, but 7/21 is probably about what we can expect on an average night going forward with Archie.  We’re never going to be a team that averages 40%+ from three on a consistent basis.

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Just now, Billingsley99 said:

What's that say about his recruits. They are not playing ahead of the so called" garbage "CTC left us

It says they're freshmen. And two of them have been hurt all year. So, his 5th and 6th best recruits of his first recruiting class are not able to contribute much as freshmen. Throw the bum out!

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Answer ( : ) INJURIES have been unkind to both Coach Archie and Coach Crean at Indiana ! Answer #2 (:) I have lived almost 8 full decades !! We are currently living in an age of instant gratification due to new technology , ( damn it to hell) !!!!   I weep for the young  in one area ! The area of lost experience in learning slowly to gain understanding of things !!!

 

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Speaking of freshman I think in today's culture everyone expects all freshman to come in contribute right away.  I think some see some of these top freshman come in and contribute and other fans think their freshman should do the same.  I did like it when freshman could come in and could develop at a slower pace and was not expected to be a big contributor.

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3 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

4 years is because it gives him one recruiting cycle to have a total roster of his own players.

And what standard in year 4?  Merely a tournament appearance or does he have to actually do something in the tournament?  Top 3 or 4 finish in Big Ten?  Win 22+ games?

FWIW, I hope he figures stuff out and we take off next year.  He does this again and it will be ugly around here.  The worm is already turning as is.

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