Three Point Defense

[FW_Hoosier]

This has been an issue since Archie’s first game at IU... It’s the biggest question I have about the packline defense.  Seems like almost every game some guy just goes off on us from deep.  Only two of Archie’s teams have been in the top 100 for 3FG% defense.

With the way our players sag so far into the lane off the ball, it seems like the other team is frequently able to get easy looks from three in rhythm.  I know the defense works well when it’s executed perfectly... our 3FG% defense was pretty good early in the year.  And I understand Bohannon hit some tough shots against good defense tonight. Wieskamp was still 4/4 in the first half, and Bohannon got a number of easy looks as well.  

It seems to me that any minor breakdown in our rotations just leads to the team getting lit up from three.  And our halfcourt, grind-it-out offense that focuses on getting everything at the rim just compounds the problem. 

Honest question for those who know much more than me: Why is there reason to think that this won’t be an issue going forward?

Edit:  I guess we’re 61st in 3FG% defense this year, so maybe it isn’t as much of an issue as I think.  Just feels like more games than not the other team goes on some ridiculous run where they can’t miss.

[FWIUFan]

In all honesty, I have similar concerns.  However, I also know that these are not CAM's recruits and overall we are very young.  I don't think we get an answer to these questions until CAM has completed his 4-5 yr.  His D seems to require quicker and longer athletes in order to close out on shooters on the perimeter. We just have to wait and see what CAM does as he recreates the roster to his system.  I'm just as concerned with his seeming lack of valuing shooters to complement the scorers.  But what do I know?  I'm not a BB coach.  

[5fouls]

I have a friend who coaches kids in grades K-1 in the local youth league.  He plays straight up man to man and his team has not given up a three pointer all year.  

[FW_Hoosier]

Here’s an example of what I mean.  The second shot is just a tough shot, not much you can do about that.  But on the first shot, Phinisee is just standing in the lane, tries to double on Cook, and Bohannon hits a wide open, back-breaking three.  Isn’t that how the defense is designed to work?  Or did Phinisee do something wrong there?

[Leathernecks]

Here's a good breakdown by Kenpom of what he views as important 3 pt defense stats.  Says 3 pointers attempted is a better judge than 3 point %.

Here's another one he did a couple years later about what stats the offense has the most control over.  Ft% was first, and 3pt% was second.

3rd Kenpom article, but I don't have time to read it now.

I can't look into what that means good or bad for our defense right now, just throwing some thoughts out there.

[InThePaint]

2 hours ago, FW_Hoosier said:

Here’s an example of what I mean.  The second shot is just a tough shot, not much you can do about that.  But on the first shot, Phinisee is just standing in the lane, tries to double on Cook, and Bohannon hits a wide open, back-breaking three.  Isn’t that how the defense is designed to work?  Or did Phinisee do something wrong there?

What I see in the first clip is Davis over helping on whoever Langford is guarding. Langford recovers by the time he hits the elbow and shuts his man down from driving. Because Davis over helps, Morgan is forced to bump the roll man which also makes him a little late closing out at the top. Easy post entrance from the top, combined with Cook getting good post position due to Davis over helping leads to the ball getting so deep. Once the ball is entered, Phinisee leaves the shooter which is a big No. So no it's not really how it's designed to work and Phinisee did do something wrong. There's usually more to it than just the made shot at the end. Do you wany to give up a layup? No, but you also don't want to leave a very good shooter open in the corner. It's also good offense on Iowa's part as well.

It's more than just three point defense. I see several things throughout games that just aren't executed as it is taught. Letting shooters get comfortable is a big deal with the pack-line, and I don't see IU doing much that. The perfect example is Smith having his hands down when guarding shooters.

[Hoosierinbham]

If they send a guard to double in the post, and a quick pass is made to the shooter, a rapid close out is necessary.  If the player is in position,  I would say the system and practice are most responsible.  If the player is in position,  but has his hands down due to laziness,  that's on the player.  Recruiting players with the right attributes to run the system should give the team and coach the best chance to be successful. Just my thoughts.

[FW_Hoosier]

19 minutes ago, InThePaint said:

What I see in the first clip is Davis over helping on whoever Langford is guarding. Langford recovers by the time he hits the elbow and shuts his man down from driving. Because Davis over helps, Morgan is forced to bump the roll man which also makes him a little late closing out at the top. Easy post entrance from the top, combined with Cook getting good post position due to Davis over helping leads to the ball getting so deep. Once the ball is entered, Phinisee leaves the shooter which is a big No. So no it's not really how it's designed to work and Phinisee did do something wrong. There's usually more to it than just the made shot at the end. Do you wany to give up a layup? No, but you also don't want to leave a very good shooter open in the corner. It's also good offense on Iowa's part as well.

It's more than just three point defense. I see several things throughout games that just aren't executed as it is taught. Letting shooters get comfortable is a big deal with the pack-line, and I don't see IU doing much that. The perfect example is Smith having his hands down when guarding shooters.

This is exactly the type of response I was looking for, thanks!  Really insightful post, I would never have noticed all those details on my own.  Seems like you’re our resident packline expert, would be great to see you post more.