FKIM01 Posted May 8, 2019 Report Share Posted May 8, 2019 2 hours ago, FW_Hoosier said: Is it fine? We went from the 10th ranked class in 2018 to the 49th ranked class in 2019 after fans spent the whole season bemoaning the lack of talent on the team. Since TJD committed, we’ve missed on every single one of our targets except a bench player from Butler, and haven’t signed any players that can help with our single biggest need (shooting). This time next week, we’re likely to be in Jeremiah April/Tim Priller territory for 2019 with two open scholarships. And we just lost out on one of our top targets in a weak 2020 class to Purdue. Unless Archie pulls a rabbit out of his hat and somehow ends up landing Quinones or Watford, I don’t see how you can spin IU’s recruiting as being in a good place right now. The 2019 rank has more to do with the number of signees (2) than the quality. I don't recall the ranking of the Bryant/Morgan/Anunoby class, but I remember forum members really dogging that class too. In the end, it's more about fit than class rank. Last year's class was huge in size and had great talent as well, but I don't think the average talent rank would be much different than this class if someone is ambitious enough to run the numbers. I don't get all the right now. It's been said several times that if you don't miss on a lot of kids, you aren't offering enough talent. Archie is not going to offer Prillers and Aprils just to fill all the scholarships. No reason to even use that analogy when the recruiting strategy is so much different than it was with the previous coach. I've read that Duke only has like 8-9 scholarships in use at a given time. Why on earth are people here pushing the panic button based on a few kids going elsewhere? If no one is added, the cupboard isn't exactly bare for next year and IU is still talking to a LOT of recruits for 2020 & 2021. Take some advice straight from The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy... Don't panic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billingsley99 Posted May 8, 2019 Report Share Posted May 8, 2019 17 minutes ago, IU Scott said: I have a question to all of those who are discouraged or pessimistic on Archie. If we fire him after next year if we don't make the tournament, do you guys really believe we could get a better candidate than what Archie was 3 years ago. Everyone who has been on this board knows I was not in favor of his hire and I wanted Marshall but we have to give him more time. Do you guys think we could actually get an established coach from a winning power 5 conference team to leave their job and come here. If we keep making changes then all we will be left with is up and coming coaches from mid major teams who may or may not be able to coach at this level. I am not sure that many if any are calling for a change. I do know he was the coach of a team that lost 12 of 13 conference games. Those results have had a terrible impact on recruiting. How much have we added for next year in our areas of weakness. Another lack luster year in a year where the state is loaded with talent will not yield positive results Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FKIM01 Posted May 8, 2019 Report Share Posted May 8, 2019 2 minutes ago, Bedford1432 said: I would hope we could get somebody who have proved they can win at a higher level like a power 5 conference. The problem wih Archie is he won at a lower level so it was kind of a roll of the dice. As of right now Holtmann looks like a far better hire than Archie. Holtmann is killing it on the recruiting trail and made the NCAA both years. Seriously? IU was a couple of buckets from flipping the script on OSU last season. Absolutely ridiculous at this stage to call Holtman a far better hire. You forget who Archie plucked out of Ohio in last year's class? I didn't see Holtman do that with Indiana talent. You notice who won the head to head battle for Joey Brunk even though Holtman had a LOT more history with Brunk? Come on, man...you're at a minimum, way premature on this call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted May 8, 2019 Report Share Posted May 8, 2019 6 minutes ago, Bedford1432 said: I would hope we could get somebody who have proved they can win at a higher level like a power 5 conference. The problem wih Archie is he won at a lower level so it was kind of a roll of the dice. As of right now Holtmann looks like a far better hire than Archie. Holtmann is killing it on the recruiting trail and made the NCAA both years. so what makes you think this time around we could get a higher caliber coach after firing a coach after year 3 like you said in another thread. Even a guy like Beard wouldn't leave Texas Tech for IU because he has proven you can go to a championship game at TT so there is no reason for him to leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedford1432 Posted May 8, 2019 Report Share Posted May 8, 2019 8 minutes ago, FKIM01 said: The 2019 rank has more to do with the number of signees (2) than the quality. I don't recall the ranking of the Bryant/Morgan/Anunoby class, but I remember forum members really dogging that class too. In the end, it's more about fit than class rank. Last year's class was huge in size and had great talent as well, but I don't think the average talent rank would be much different than this class if someone is ambitious enough to run the numbers. I don't get all the right now. It's been said several times that if you don't miss on a lot of kids, you aren't offering enough talent. Archie is not going to offer Prillers and Aprils just to fill all the scholarships. No reason to even use that analogy when the recruiting strategy is so much different than it was with the previous coach. I've read that Duke only has like 8-9 scholarships in use at a given time. Why on earth are people here pushing the panic button based on a few kids going elsewhere? If no one is added, the cupboard isn't exactly bare for next year and IU is still talking to a LOT of recruits for 2020 & 2021. Take some advise straight from The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy... Don't panic! The problem is we offer immediate playing time and have a huge need for a three point shooter and we cannot get one. You do not find that alarming? Not one recruit this spring has chosen us except a frontcourt big man. You can spin it all you want but recruiting has hit a brick wall. That losing streak really is hurting us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedford1432 Posted May 8, 2019 Report Share Posted May 8, 2019 4 minutes ago, IU Scott said: so what makes you think this time around we could get a higher caliber coach after firing a coach after year 3 like you said in another thread. Even a guy like Beard wouldn't leave Texas Tech for IU because he has proven you can go to a championship game at TT so there is no reason for him to leave. Scottt I know you from Peegs and you always pump sunshine. So if Archie misses the tourney once again how many more years you want to give him. I am thinking you think about 10 years. And no beard will not come here but I take a guy who can make the tourney at maybe a 70% clip at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU878176 Posted May 8, 2019 Report Share Posted May 8, 2019 3 minutes ago, FKIM01 said: Seriously? IU was a couple of buckets from flipping the script on OSU last season. Absolutely ridiculous at this stage to call Holtman a far better hire. You forget who Archie plucked out of Ohio in last year's class? I didn't see Holtman do that with Indiana talent. You notice who won the head to head battle for Joey Brunk even though Holtman had a LOT more history with Brunk? Come on, man...you're at a minimum, way premature on this call. He said “at this point” Holtman looks like a better hire. That does not mean it can’t change nor does it mean this is a fire Archie post. I agree with Bedford1432 that Holtman looks like a better hire “at this point” but it’s a moot point anyway as many have reported that Holtman was not interested in the IU fish bowl. Let’s hope things turn around this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedford1432 Posted May 8, 2019 Report Share Posted May 8, 2019 12 minutes ago, FKIM01 said: The 2019 rank has more to do with the number of signees (2) than the quality. I don't recall the ranking of the Bryant/Morgan/Anunoby class, but I remember forum members really dogging that class too. In the end, it's more about fit than class rank. Last year's class was huge in size and had great talent as well, but I don't think the average talent rank would be much different than this class if someone is ambitious enough to run the numbers. I don't get all the right now. It's been said several times that if you don't miss on a lot of kids, you aren't offering enough talent. Archie is not going to offer Prillers and Aprils just to fill all the scholarships. No reason to even use that analogy when the recruiting strategy is so much different than it was with the previous coach. I've read that Duke only has like 8-9 scholarships in use at a given time. Why on earth are people here pushing the panic button based on a few kids going elsewhere? If no one is added, the cupboard isn't exactly bare for next year and IU is still talking to a LOT of recruits for 2020 & 2021. Take some advise straight from The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy... Don't panic! So you think the three point shooting is going to dramatically improve next season without adding any three point shooters? You do realize we were last in the league last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobSaccamanno Posted May 8, 2019 Report Share Posted May 8, 2019 I think it's a fair point, Scott. I say that Archie gets 4 years minimum. At that point, money talks. If he has a bad set of four years, prospective coaches will see the removal was needed. More importantly, you want a proven coach? Start with a dollar figure with a six or seven handle. For that to happen we might need turnover at the BOT, President's office, and with Eccentric Fred Glass unless he's doing one of his strange and bizarre things like taking names off uniforms or whatever his latest insane and oddball move is. Worst case, we keep paying at the low $3 M level and the ex IU player mafia pushes Alford in. I think our best hope is that the 12/13 was an anomaly and Archie is the man. He learns from what went wrong and realizes his considerable potential. There is some pessimism for next year, and with good reason. But, if enough of our "ifs" materialize to the upside, we could shock some people. Green stabilizes for good, Davis gets in shape, Hunter is 100% and rolling, Phinny takes the next step, TJD makes an impact, Brunk brings leadership and intensity, etc. Our wing spots are not what we want but there are enough irons in the fire for us to be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted May 8, 2019 Report Share Posted May 8, 2019 3 minutes ago, Bedford1432 said: Scottt I know you from Peegs and you always pump sunshine. So if Archie misses the tourney once again how many more years you want to give him. I am thinking you think about 10 years. And no beard will not come here but I take a guy who can make the tourney at maybe a 70% clip at this point. Like who? it is easy to say that but when you look into it is not as easy as you say. Also our fan base would not be content on making the tournament 7 out of 10 years and would not be happy with any coach who did this. I have said many times that every coach should get 4 years minimum so they can have a full recruiting cycle. I don't mind being considered a sunshine pumper and think it is a compliment and it is better to have that outlook than be so negative all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU878176 Posted May 8, 2019 Report Share Posted May 8, 2019 4 minutes ago, Bedford1432 said: The problem is we offer immediate playing time and have a huge need for a three point shooter and we cannot get one. You do not find that alarming? You would think that a shooter would salivate at our need for that skill-set. Sort of puzzling we have not landed one (unless Franklin turns out to be a good shooter). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billingsley99 Posted May 8, 2019 Report Share Posted May 8, 2019 14 minutes ago, IU Scott said: Like who? it is easy to say that but when you look into it is not as easy as you say. Also our fan base would not be content on making the tournament 7 out of 10 years and would not be happy with any coach who did this. I would be thrilled with making it 1 time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobSaccamanno Posted May 8, 2019 Report Share Posted May 8, 2019 Franklin improved and he shot pretty well this past season. But I think it's a reach to think he will be a high volume three pointer while adjusting to the speed of the game. He isn't playing against Biff from geometry class anymore. I am sure Biff will be a good accountant some day but he isn't Xavier Tillman. I think if he can bring some energy and defense in spot duty, this year could be a good growing season for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IowaHoosierFan Posted May 8, 2019 Report Share Posted May 8, 2019 3 hours ago, RoadToZion said: That's not entirely true. We have 5 on our roster this year. . . 5 out of 11 is a pretty high percentage. I was thinking the state no our roster, flawed thinking on my account. I stand corrected Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IowaHoosierFan Posted May 8, 2019 Report Share Posted May 8, 2019 3 hours ago, jv1972iu said: So, I'm curious as to what you think the solution might be? Don't have an answer, i am wrong, i stand corrected Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IowaHoosierFan Posted May 8, 2019 Report Share Posted May 8, 2019 2 hours ago, Fiveoutofsix said: I guess Rob, Romeo, Anderson, Trayce, Franklin, and Brunk are not true Indiana kids. Thats just the last two classes. Not to mention Prudue and MSU got guys that IU was on and it was who took the scholarship first and Franklin and Anderson beat the other two Indiana kids. This is a false statement. I am wrong, i stand corrected Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IowaHoosierFan Posted May 8, 2019 Report Share Posted May 8, 2019 1 hour ago, Zlinedavid said: 1987: 3/15 in-state 1976: 6/13 in-state Currently (Excluding Romeo, Including Green): 5/11 scholarship players are from in-state. 6/12 if you include Childress (preferred walk-on). Taking a different look at it, players from IN/IL/OH: 1987: 9/15 1976: 12/13 Currently: 7/11 (8/12) I'm sure there are other years where it was much more Indiana-heavy, but I just grabbed 2 noteworthy years off the top of my head. Either way, geographic origin of our roster is pretty much in line with history. I stand corrected, i am wrong, i was thinking more about the Indiana state class, not our roster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted May 8, 2019 Report Share Posted May 8, 2019 11 minutes ago, Bedford1432 said: Scottt I know you from Peegs and you always pump sunshine. So if Archie misses the tourney once again how many more years you want to give him. I am thinking you think about 10 years. And no beard will not come here but I take a guy who can make the tourney at maybe a 70% clip at this point. How dare Scott be positive!!! How could he!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOOSIER1321 Posted May 8, 2019 Report Share Posted May 8, 2019 33 minutes ago, IU Scott said: I have a question to all of those who are discouraged or pessimistic on Archie. If we fire him after next year if we don't make the tournament, do you guys really believe we could get a better candidate than what Archie was 3 years ago. Everyone who has been on this board knows I was not in favor of his hire and I wanted Marshall but we have to give him more time. Do you guys think we could actually get an established coach from a winning power 5 conference team to leave their job and come here. If we keep making changes then all we will be left with is up and coming coaches from mid major teams who may or may not be able to coach at this level. Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FW_Hoosier Posted May 8, 2019 Report Share Posted May 8, 2019 12 minutes ago, FKIM01 said: The 2019 rank has more to do with the number of signees (2) than the quality. I don't recall the ranking of the Bryant/Morgan/Anunoby class, but I remember forum members really dogging that class too. In the end, it's more about fit than class rank. Last year's class was huge in size and had great talent as well, but I don't think the average talent rank would be much different than this class if someone is ambitious enough to run the numbers. I don't get all the right now. It's been said several times that if you don't miss on a lot of kids, you aren't offering enough talent. Archie is not going to offer Prillers and Aprils just to fill all the scholarships. No reason to even use that analogy when the recruiting strategy is so much different than it was with the previous coach. I've read that Duke only has like 8-9 scholarships in use at a given time. Why on earth are people here pushing the panic button based on a few kids going elsewhere? If no one is added, the cupboard isn't exactly bare for next year and IU is still talking to a LOT of recruits for 2020 & 2021. Take some advise straight from The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy... Don't panic! That huge class is down to four players, and only one of them has been a major contributor thus far. We’re bringing in one top 50 player in this year’s class, and half of this board isn’t even sure he’s going to be able to start on an NIT team that lost its two best players. All we heard last season was that Archie had no chance to win because the team had no talent, and now we’re bringing in a three-man class with one top 50 recruit. We have a ton of playing time to offer in the backcourt, and he’s struck out on every guard target he’s gone after since Franklin committed in September. At this point, we don’t seem to be the leader for any top 50 recruits in 2020 or 2021, and it’s not looking likely that next season’s results are going to put us in a much better position. It’s pretty clear that last season’s debacle has just killed IU’s recruiting momentum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted May 8, 2019 Report Share Posted May 8, 2019 26 minutes ago, HOOSIER1321 said: Yes who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macomb hoosier Posted May 8, 2019 Report Share Posted May 8, 2019 2 hours ago, Zlinedavid said: Can't speak for everyone, but personally, I 100% disagree with that. 100%? So, you find it easier to root for out of state players and forgive them when they mess up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedford1432 Posted May 8, 2019 Report Share Posted May 8, 2019 23 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said: That huge class is down to four players, and only one of them has been a major contributor thus far. We’re bringing in one top 50 player in this year’s class, and half of this board isn’t even sure he’s going to be able to start on an NIT team that lost its two best players. All we heard last season was that Archie had no chance to win because the team had no talent, and now we’re bringing in a three-man class with one top 50 recruit. We have a ton of playing time to offer in the backcourt, and he’s struck out on every guard target he’s gone after since Franklin committed in September. At this point, we don’t seem to be the leader for any top 50 recruits in 2020 or 2021, and it’s not looking likely that next season’s results are going to put us in a much better position. It’s pretty clear that last season’s debacle has just killed IU’s recruiting momentum. Without a doubt last season debacle totally killed recruiting. The only thing that is goint to fix that is Archie needs to have a very good season next year. The fact that we are in desperate need of a three point shooter guard and cannot get one to save our life is very concerning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedford1432 Posted May 8, 2019 Report Share Posted May 8, 2019 I honestly though Archie was going to kill it on the recruiting trail but I did not anticipate losing 12 of 13 either. Now we are stricking out left and right. Very discouraging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inequality Posted May 8, 2019 Report Share Posted May 8, 2019 What recruits thread are y'all gonna dismantle next? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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