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OT: But I HAVE to have smart basketball fans opine


BADGERVOL

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On 2/11/2019 at 10:22 PM, BADGERVOL said:

It's a pretty poor puff piece, and all it is at the end of the day is another MJ could beat anyone piece. That's literally all it says.

An MJ v LeBron would be a war. I'd love to see both go toe to toe in their prime. Anyone not giving LeBron a chance is, frankly, just biased. LeBron's strength, size, athleticism, speed and yes, shooting, squares him up very well against MJ, whose own strength, craftiness, athleticism, killer instinct, insane scoring ability and fight would make this an all out war. But he's not going to push LeBron, and LeBron is a better shooter to go with his strength and size advantage. 

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31 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

An MJ v LeBron would be a war. I'd love to see both go toe to toe in their prime.

Amen.

 

31 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

...MJ, whose own strength, craftiness, athleticism, killer instinct.....

Right there it is.  Even some of the greatest players ever didn't have that razor sharp killer instinct.  And that doesn't mean that if you don't, that you're immune from making game winners or clutch plays.  But there's an intangible that some guys just have/had. 

43 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

.....LeBron is a better shooter.....

Now that may depend on at what age we're hypothetically putting them up against each other.  At their physical primes, let's call it 1990 for MJ and 2010 for Lebron, yes, I'll agree that Lebron was a better shooter.  Now, MJ circa 1998 had declined a little bit athletically, but that fadeaway jumper he developed by then was deadly. 

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^^ Don't have time to find and link it, but LBJ actually has one of the best all-time deep 3-point shooting percentages, as in best in the NBA all time. It's some crazy stat based on really deep 3-'s, do not recall the exact distance, but it was well outside the 3-point line. LBJ hits at a genuinely elite level from way way deep, fwiw -- just an interesting stat. He came into the NBA with a crappy outside shot. He developed into an above-average 3-point shooter, and a ridiculously good really deep shooter. MJ actually was passed on for #1 draft pick because he didn't come in with a very good shot. He was never an elite outside shooter, but he also developed a respectable outside shot later in his career. However, as a Reggie fan, I absolutely hated the way he jabbed his elbow into the defender before taking that shot, it was just dirty, but he got away with because he was MJ. Kind of like Karl Malone's leg kick out when he shot.

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15 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

^^ Don't have time to find and link it, but LBJ actually has one of the best all-time deep 3-point shooting percentages, as in best in the NBA all time. It's some crazy stat based on really deep 3-'s, do not recall the exact distance, but it was well outside the 3-point line. LBJ hits at a genuinely elite level from way way deep, fwiw -- just an interesting stat. He came into the NBA with a crappy outside shot. He developed into an above-average 3-point shooter, and a ridiculously good really deep shooter. MJ actually was passed on for #1 draft pick because he didn't come in with a very good shot. He was never an elite outside shooter, but he also developed a respectable outside shot later in his career. However, as a Reggie fan, I absolutely hated the way he jabbed his elbow into the defender before taking that shot, it was just dirty, but he got away with because he was MJ. Kind of like Karl Malone's leg kick out when he shot.

I don't think the Rockets skipped over MJ....they drafted a HoFer themselves with the #1 pick.

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2 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

^^ Don't have time to find and link it, but LBJ actually has one of the best all-time deep 3-point shooting percentages, as in best in the NBA all time. It's some crazy stat based on really deep 3-'s, do not recall the exact distance, but it was well outside the 3-point line. LBJ hits at a genuinely elite level from way way deep, fwiw -- just an interesting stat. He came into the NBA with a crappy outside shot. He developed into an above-average 3-point shooter, and a ridiculously good really deep shooter. MJ actually was passed on for #1 draft pick because he didn't come in with a very good shot. He was never an elite outside shooter, but he also developed a respectable outside shot later in his career. However, as a Reggie fan, I absolutely hated the way he jabbed his elbow into the defender before taking that shot, it was just dirty, but he got away with because he was MJ. Kind of like Karl Malone's leg kick out when he shot.

Malone’s kick! Omg I forgot about that!!

that guy was a TANK.

i believe that if you put Lebron back into the old school era he’d get pounded on and wouldn’t know what to do with himself for a couple seasons.

BUT if he had never known different...if he had only known that kind of PHYSICAL basketball...Lebron would’ve been able to use his freak size and strength to demolish people at a level no one could imagine. 

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Can anyone begin to fathom what the rule changes since Jordan would mean to HIS stats? Think about the fact that no one can hand check or put a forearm into the side of Jordan. You have to be careful not to foul him too hard for fear of a flagrant foul. How many FT’s per game would he get? How many “and 1’s?” How many free lanes would he have? Wow

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9 minutes ago, BADGERVOL said:

Can anyone begin to fathom what the rule changes since Jordan would mean to HIS stats? Think about the fact that no one can hand check or put a forearm into the side of Jordan. You have to be careful not to foul him too hard for fear of a flagrant foul. How many FT’s per game would he get? How many “and 1’s?” How many free lanes would he have? Wow

For sure - but also would elevate guys like I Thomas (who MJ couldn’t get past for a while) and others. On the flip side as incredible as Curry is, he would’ve been destroyed in the 90s, IMO - another reason why Reggie is kind of underrated, as skinny as he was he was one tough dude 

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33 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

For sure - but also would elevate guys like I Thomas (who MJ couldn’t get past for a while) and others. On the flip side as incredible as Curry is, he would’ve been destroyed in the 90s, IMO - another reason why Reggie is kind of underrated, as skinny as he was he was one tough dude 

Yes Steph Curry would drive ONE time and be wrecked in the lane and he’d camp outside and never come in again. And if you knew he wouldn’t drive you could just about shut him out.

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2 hours ago, BADGERVOL said:

Malone’s kick! Omg I forgot about that!!

that guy was a TANK.

i believe that if you put Lebron back into the old school era he’d get pounded on and wouldn’t know what to do with himself for a couple seasons.

BUT if he had never known different...if he had only known that kind of PHYSICAL basketball...Lebron would’ve been able to use his freak size and strength to demolish people at a level no one could imagine. 

If LeBron ever had the pleasure of being guarded by Jeff Hornaceck in the Finals he would have scored 60 every game. 

Sure, in the "good old days" guys could commit assault and get a common foul, but the athleticism and strength across the board was not the same as it is now. The talent is the best it's probably ever been in the NBA right now. 

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26 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

Sure, in the "good old days" guys could commit assault and get a common foul, but the athleticism and strength across the board was not the same as it is now. The talent is the best it's probably ever been in the NBA right now. 

I believe many who enjoyed the NBA of the 80s - 90s might not agree.  Simply looking back with the nostalgia glasses on ...  In that period you had players drinking their half time beer, smoking a cigarette, while eating whatever without a nutritionist hanging over them.  Today's players are typically well-oiled machines.

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35 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

If LeBron ever had the pleasure of being guarded by Jeff Hornaceck in the Finals he would have scored 60 every game. 

Sure, in the "good old days" guys could commit assault and get a common foul, but the athleticism and strength across the board was not the same as it is now. The talent is the best it's probably ever been in the NBA right now. 

I love how people like you assume vertical leaps have gone up 25% in the past 20 years and guys didn’t lift weights back then or something. Antonio McDyss (sp?) was 6’10” and had something like a 42-44 inch vertical. Shawn Kemp? Shawn Marion?! Scottie Pippen was north of a 40 as well. Karl Malone was such a tank it’s off the charts how solid he was and his workout routine was known across the NBA and other sports as pure insanity. Allen Iverson? There is NO ONE in the NBA as quick as he was. He was a top 5 HS football player just like Lebron was.

today there are a TON of great athletes and yesterday there were too. I’m not saying today’s players are NOT athletic but it’s pure insanity to say the 80s and 90s didn’t have good athletes. That’s nonsense.

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41 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

If LeBron ever had the pleasure of being guarded by Jeff Hornaceck in the Finals he would have scored 60 every game. 

Sure, in the "good old days" guys could commit assault and get a common foul, but the athleticism and strength across the board was not the same as it is now. The talent is the best it's probably ever been in the NBA right now. 

Yup and if Jordan was guarded by Steph he’d also go off for 60. Particularly if they played by the rules of the past.

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40 minutes ago, BADGERVOL said:

I love how people like you assume vertical leaps have gone up 25% in the past 20 years and guys didn’t lift weights back then or something. Antonio McDyss (sp?) was 6’10” and had something like a 42-44 inch vertical. Shawn Kemp? Shawn Marion?! Scottie Pippen was north of a 40 as well. Karl Malone was such a tank it’s off the charts how solid he was and his workout routine was known across the NBA and other sports as pure insanity. Allen Iverson? There is NO ONE in the NBA as quick as he was. He was a top 5 HS football player just like Lebron was.

today there are a TON of great athletes and yesterday there were too. I’m not saying today’s players are NOT athletic but it’s pure insanity to say the 80s and 90s didn’t have good athletes. That’s nonsense.

Yeah, "freaks" exist in every generation, and that is not an insult.  Just the way the athlete evolves.  Oscar Robertson was a freak, Larry Bird was a freak, Magic Johnson was a freak, Michael Jordan was a freak, and yes LeBron is a freak.  Crosses my entire lifetime.  The greatest to ever play the game.

But yeah Badger, I agree with you.

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1 minute ago, rico said:

Yeah, "freaks" exist in every generation, and that is not an insult.  Just the way the athlete evolves.  Oscar Robertson was a freak, Larry Bird was a freak, Magic Johnson was a freak, Michael Jordan was a freak, and yes LeBron is a freak.  Crosses my entire lifetime.  The greatest to ever play the game.

But yeah Badger, I agree with you.

Daryl Dunkinstien nuff said...

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1 minute ago, rico said:

Yeah, "freaks" exist in every generation, and that is not an insult.  Just the way the athlete evolves.  Oscar Robertson was a freak, Larry Bird was a freak, Magic Johnson was a freak, Michael Jordan was a freak, and yes LeBron is a freak.  Crosses my entire lifetime.  The greatest to ever play the game.

But yeah Badger, I agree with you.

I would’ve LOVED to see some of those greats play against other greats. Would love to see a Wilt in his prime in a finals against guys like Jordan, Shaq, Lebron, etc

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for anyone who thinks athletes today are “so much better” than in the pat this ted Talk is for you...and anyone else.

its actually fascinating. As a track coach this was a MINDBLOW. When you do the research and compare Jesse Owens and Bolt you end up with two sprinters who although their times seem miles apart are actually almost identical when youcontrol all the variables. Point is athletes haven’t changed just the selection of them.

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4 minutes ago, BADGERVOL said:

I would’ve LOVED to see some of those greats play against other greats. Would love to see a Wilt in his prime in a finals against guys like Jordan, Shaq, Lebron, etc

You are seeing now it now........but you can't compare era's, just something to talk about.

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1 hour ago, BADGERVOL said:

Today there are a TON of great athletes and yesterday there were too. I’m not saying today’s players are NOT athletic but it’s pure insanity to say the 80s and 90s didn’t have good athletes. That’s nonsense.

I think we all agree on that front.  I do not believe anyone stated or implied the 80s and 90s did not have good athletes.  That would be a ridiculous assertion.  My point was that today's professional athletic culture is more stringent.

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On 2/11/2019 at 11:22 PM, BADGERVOL said:

newarena reminds me of hoosierstateofmind , as click-bait garbage sports sites - that I was unfortunate enough to have clicked on once - go.

Thanks for the share , if for no other reason, than to add it to my blocked pages in my browser.  

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