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Thoughts on Fred Glass Thread


KoB2011

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I should add that Rabjohns also said it’s already been explained to a couple of IU players in that situation. So, he’s talked to people.  He left no doubt.  He’d have major egg on his face if he’s wrong. The language I saw seemed to lawyerly allow for what he’s saying as the practical effect.  It doesn’t say that you’re guaranteed to stay on the roster. The language could have said that if that was the intent.  

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5 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

I still contend it's speculation unless the NCAA says otherwise. Rabjohns having confidence doesn't prove he knows how the NCAA would rule the scholarship counts. 

Serious question, how can anyone be confident in how the NCAA would rule it counting short of a rule or statement from the NCAA? 

I mean, sure, you can argue that the NCAA might overrule it, but IU's policy is exceedingly clear at this point and you have to have your head in the sand to say otherwise IMO.

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7 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

I have read the story more than once, we all know the story well. Gelon and his parents made sure everyone knew how terrible they felt their son was treated. 

All we have in that article is Grant's whiny parents giving us a quote. We don't know what is actually allowed by the NCAA or where that scholarship would be counted by the NCAA. Do you see a quote from the NCAA saying where it would count? Do you have a rule saying where it would count?

 

I am not talking about his parents.  From the story....and I am paraphrasing here.... the NCAA ruled on the IU situation.....stating that if a new coach comes in and wants to discard a player..... his educational money can not be taken from him. 

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28 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

I understand that, but we are giving them a scholarship so did we really pull it away from basketball?

If there isn't an NCAA rule explicitly stating you can remove a guy from a team but keep them on scholarship and have it not count, then it's an open question. You're putting a lot of faith in the NCAA having common sense for an open question. 

It’s a non athletic scholarship it’s just that simple

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9 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I forget who said it but  think it was one of those two I mentioned  is that if a player wanted to stay at IU even if he doe snot have a roster spot that person will count as one of the 13 scholarships that the team can give out.

"doe snot"?  Ewwwwwww

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3 hours ago, milehiiu said:

Lou Watson was my reference. However, you do raise a good point. 

Before my time, so I'd like to hear why you think he's the worst? Wiki says he won a Big10 co-champ and went 62-60 from 66-71. 17-7 his last year. Obviously, Knight replaced him and was around for a long time, so I guess we're fortunate that our worst coach was above .500. Kinda the opposite of football where only our best coaches are above .500.

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I find the whole IU Student Bill of Rights confusing as to its relative impact on IU. There are a number of articles indicating that all of the Power 5 conferences adopted guaranteed multi-year scholarships in 2015. Here is from one article:

The Facts About "Guaranteed" Multi-year NCAA DI Scholarships

In 2015, the NCAA Division I “Power 5” Schools implemented a rule that has the effect of “protecting” Division I student-athletes from having their athletic scholarship cancelled or not renewed for any athletics reason.  Quite simply, a coach cannot take away a scholarship for poor athletic performance.

Here are several facts about this rule:
– This new rule was voted in by the universities of the “Power 5” conferences – the ACC, Big Ten, Big 12, PAC-12, and SEC, as well as Notre Dame. This rule must be followed by these 65 universities.
– Other Division I schools and conferences can choose to follow this rule, but are not required to do so. So, an athlete receiving an athletic scholarship from a university that is NOT one of the 65 mentioned here might still receive a one-year scholarship which a coach can choose not to renew for the following academic year.

https://informedathlete.com/the-facts-about-guaranteed-multi-year-ncaa-di-scholarships/

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14 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said:

I find the whole IU Student Bill of Rights confusing as to its relative impact on IU. There are a number of articles indicating that all of the Power 5 conferences adopted guaranteed multi-year scholarships in 2015. Here is from one article:

The Facts About "Guaranteed" Multi-year NCAA DI Scholarships

In 2015, the NCAA Division I “Power 5” Schools implemented a rule that has the effect of “protecting” Division I student-athletes from having their athletic scholarship cancelled or not renewed for any athletics reason.  Quite simply, a coach cannot take away a scholarship for poor athletic performance.

Here are several facts about this rule:
– This new rule was voted in by the universities of the “Power 5” conferences – the ACC, Big Ten, Big 12, PAC-12, and SEC, as well as Notre Dame. This rule must be followed by these 65 universities.
– Other Division I schools and conferences can choose to follow this rule, but are not required to do so. So, an athlete receiving an athletic scholarship from a university that is NOT one of the 65 mentioned here might still receive a one-year scholarship which a coach can choose not to renew for the following academic year.

https://informedathlete.com/the-facts-about-guaranteed-multi-year-ncaa-di-scholarships/

Well that's interesting and confusing.  So the notion that a scholarship is year to year isn't correct.   And if a coach has an underperforming player he can't yank the scholly.   

I suppose most players are going to transfer as soon as the coach says you're never going to play.

Go Hoosiers!!!

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31 minutes ago, cybergates said:

Before my time, so I'd like to hear why you think he's the worst? Wiki says he won a Big10 co-champ and went 62-60 from 66-71. 17-7 his last year. Obviously, Knight replaced him and was around for a long time, so I guess we're fortunate that our worst coach was above .500. Kinda the opposite of football where only our best coaches are above .500.

I was a student that graduated in 1969.  Did not see his last year at IU. However, Lou had George McGinnis, in 1970, for his last year at IU.  No wonder he was a winner that season. Big George carried that team on his broad shoulders.Take out the McGinnis year and Lou has a losing record over all.   During the time I was a student.... Lou only had one winning season, in four years.  People talk about apathy towards the IU BB program now.  You should have seen it back when I was a student.  IU played in the "New Fieldhouse" (later named Gladstone). Held a fraction of what Assembly Hall holds.  I went to every game.  Just walked in. No body ever asked me for a ticket or student ID.  And I never failed to get a front row seat. 

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1 hour ago, 13th&Jackson said:

I find the whole IU Student Bill of Rights confusing as to its relative impact on IU. There are a number of articles indicating that all of the Power 5 conferences adopted guaranteed multi-year scholarships in 2015. Here is from one article:

The Facts About "Guaranteed" Multi-year NCAA DI Scholarships

In 2015, the NCAA Division I “Power 5” Schools implemented a rule that has the effect of “protecting” Division I student-athletes from having their athletic scholarship cancelled or not renewed for any athletics reason.  Quite simply, a coach cannot take away a scholarship for poor athletic performance.

Here are several facts about this rule:
– This new rule was voted in by the universities of the “Power 5” conferences – the ACC, Big Ten, Big 12, PAC-12, and SEC, as well as Notre Dame. This rule must be followed by these 65 universities.
– Other Division I schools and conferences can choose to follow this rule, but are not required to do so. So, an athlete receiving an athletic scholarship from a university that is NOT one of the 65 mentioned here might still receive a one-year scholarship which a coach can choose not to renew for the following academic year.

https://informedathlete.com/the-facts-about-guaranteed-multi-year-ncaa-di-scholarships/

Interesting.  I'd like to see the actual language of the NCAA rule because this does not seem to be well understood. 

It's hard to believe a kid could come in, do only the required minimum, never work on his body or game besides mandatory practice, be disengaged but not break rules, etc, and he gets to keep a precious athletic scholly, where numbers are brutally tight.

Although, it might explain Tim Priller.

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27 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

Interesting.  I'd like to see the actual language of the NCAA rule because this does not seem to be well understood. 

It's hard to believe a kid could come in, do only the required minimum, never work on his body or game besides mandatory practice, be disengaged but not break rules, etc, and he gets to keep a precious athletic scholly, where numbers are brutally tight.

Although, it might explain Tim Priller.

Then how did we get rid of Gelon

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I haven't looked into it, but I HIGHLY doubt that a university is going to hamstring it's sports teams by not allowing the scholarship back to the program for another recruit.  The student may continue his/her education for free, but I highly doubt that it's still considered an athletic scholarship that counts toward the team.  I might be wrong, but I find it counting against the team hard to believe.

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8 minutes ago, StLHoosier said:

I haven't looked into it, but I HIGHLY doubt that a university is going to hamstring it's sports teams by not allowing the scholarship back to the program for another recruit.  The student may continue his/her education for free, but I highly doubt that it's still considered an athletic scholarship that counts toward the team.  I might be wrong, but I find it counting against the team hard to believe.

You don't have to look into it.  And don't even listen to me.   Even Rabby confirmed as much on Stirling's Feb. 12 podcast.

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2 hours ago, milehiiu said:

I was a student that graduated in 1969.  Did not see his last year at IU. However, Lou had George McGinnis, in 1970, for his last year at IU.  No wonder he was a winner that season. Big George carried that team on his broad shoulders.Take out the McGinnis year and Lou has a losing record over all.   During the time I was a student.... Lou only had one winning season, in four years.  People talk about apathy towards the IU BB program now.  You should have seen it back when I was a student.  IU played in the "New Fieldhouse" (later named Gladstone). Held a fraction of what Assembly Hall holds.  I went to every game.  Just walked in. No body ever asked me for a ticket or student ID.  And I never failed to get a front row seat. 

Thanks Mile! I figured you'd have a good reason/story behind it and certainly appreciate the history lesson.

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10 minutes ago, cybergates said:

Thanks Mile! I figured you'd have a good reason/story behind it and certainly appreciate the history lesson.

You are welcome.  Anytime.  I sometimes forget, that most of our members are less than half my age, and don't know what went on before they were born. I just assume they know. I am glad you asked. So I could give you a history lesson. My pleasure.  And thanks for being a great HSN member !

Let me add that Lou was a great human being, who bled Cream and Crimson. Though he lacked as a college coach, IMHO, he was a stellar player, who started, and not only was MVP, multiple years,  but was also named all Big Ten his last two years as a player. While setting at the time, the all time IU scoring record. I was so pleased that Crean and IU took the time to honor him at half time, years ago, before his death. 

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9 hours ago, IU Scott said:

Not what I heard and I think it was either Osterman or RabJohn that I heard explain it.

Rabjohns, didn't explain it that way. He said it wouldn't count. The kid is no longer in athelitics. The University is paying the bill for a regular scholarship. How else can a player that leaves early for the NBA. Continue school on IU's dime.

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28 minutes ago, reabhnt said:

But Herbert forced the hire. Greenspan want Beilen. And when he was first hired wanted to fire Davis and hire Matta.

Very true.  Herbert wanted another minority after Davis.  And had met with Sampson at a few NCAA meetings. That's how he got to know him.  If left up to Greenspan... IU would not have hired Sampson.  Greenspan publicly owned the hire of Sampson... but that was just to go along with the "company" montra.

I was just wanting to clarify what Coach1K said, in order that some IU fans understood who was in charge of the hire.

Hey... thanks !  ;)

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Wasn't sure where to put this. Alan Henderson taking to twitter this morning talking about profanity chants. I'll admit during the game,etc....I cuss as much as anyone. My behavior for those 2 hours is borderline asinine. However with a fresh cup of coffee and reflection....did anyone attend game last night? Did Chuck or anyone else warn the crowd? 

Reason I ask is this seems like a Fred Glass issue....since he's in charge of our fine Athletic Department.

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3 hours ago, Seeking6 said:

Wasn't sure where to put this. Alan Henderson taking to twitter this morning talking about profanity chants. I'll admit during the game,etc....I cuss as much as anyone. My behavior for those 2 hours is borderline asinine. However with a fresh cup of coffee and reflection....did anyone attend game last night? Did Chuck or anyone else warn the crowd? 

Reason I ask is this seems like a Fred Glass issue....since he's in charge of our fine Athletic Department.

There were no crowd warnings.  A few times when there was no play like reviewing the fouls they piped in music to try and drown out the chants.  I expected there to be a warning as the chants continued but there was not.  Unfortunately in this day and age cussing is more and more common.  You can say F and Sh on tv now with no issue as long as your show has the proper TV rating warnings.  Doesn't make it right but people are more and more thinking that bad language is appropriate in a public setting.  You would be amazed how much bad language is dropped around young kids in this town in public settings as well.

Then again I may just be getting crusty and old. I never realized two of my favorite childhood movies,the Goonies and ET, both drop curse words quite a bit until I rewatched them with my kids lol.

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4 minutes ago, iuthruandthru said:

There were no crowd warnings.  A few times when there was no play like reviewing the fouls they piped in music to try and drown out the chants.  I expected there to be a warning as the chants continued but there was not.  Unfortunately in this day and age cussing is more and more common.  You can say F and Sh on tv now with no issue as long as your show has the proper TV rating warnings.  Doesn't make it right but people are more and more thinking that bad language is appropriate in a public setting.  You would be amazed how much bad language is dropped around young kids in this town in public settings as well.

Then again I may just be getting crusty and old. I never realized two of my favorite childhood movies,the Goonies and ET, both drop curse words quite a bit until I rewatched them with my kids lol.

So cussing crosses the line, but calling an entire school's female population ugly doesn't?

Don't take that the wrong way, I'm fine with both. Seems like you can't have it both ways though. They are both poor examples for children.

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